how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

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birD
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how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby birD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:00 pm

considering taking a full scholarship with stipulation of keeping a 3.0. Is it super hard to get 3.0 or above in LS? I honestly have no idea so any input would be appreciated.

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bk1
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:01 pm

Depends what the school curves to.

Ask to get your scholarship stips removed or don't assume you will have that scholarship when you start your second year.

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northwood
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby northwood » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:21 pm

bk1 wrote:Depends what the school curves to.

Ask to get your scholarship stips removed or don't assume you will have that scholarship when you start your second year.



how would you recommend asking to getting the stipulation removed?
I have a stipulation for my 75% scholly at a school that curves to a 3.3 In order to keep the scholarship, I need to have a 3.0 gpa at the end of each year ( 1L, 2L). While i realize that this allows me to be slightly below 50%, I would love to get rid of it ( I have been doing my total cost of attendance at this school with the 75% scholly being lost by the end of 1L.) While I would love to go here, if I do end up losing my scholarship, the total cost of attendance would leave me with so much debt, that I will either go fully gray, have a heart attack, or be a nervous wreck at graduation. As I have been in the workforce for 5 years, the idea of giving up my full time job ( that I absolutely despise) to basically put home loan on my brain and not be able to work scares me. While I really want to be a lawyer, and know deep down that this is what I want to do with the rest of my days, I also want to be able to have a house and not be worrying about paying the bills and interest rates.

I have been trying to think of ways to bring up this subject ( and waiting to see if i get a better scholly offer with no strings- but being realistic it wont happen) without coming off as greedy or ungrateful.( although I know I earned this with a lot of work and effort). Should I email the school, call them, or wait until I visit in March ( or is that totally unwise?).

Thanks for your help and best of luck to you with all that you do!

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bk1
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby bk1 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:29 pm

I don't know specifically, but I would try some sort of leverage like a better school or a similar scholly or something like that. This isn't something I have done, but something like:

"I would like to go to your school but money is a huge factor to me. I really would like to go to your school because of the scholarship money you gave me, but because it is not guaranteed throughout my 3 years I cannot accept that it will necessarily be there even though I am confident in my abilities as a student. I am asking that the stipulations be removed as the scholarship and your school's quality really drive me to attend but would attend elsewhere because I cannot commit myself to attending a school knowing there is the possibility, however slight, that the merit aid I received may disappear."

Or something like that. I've never done it but that is an idea of how I'd approach it.

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birD
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby birD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:37 pm

interesting idea about asking, although I may be too scared to ask...

anyone with 1L experience want to chime in on how hard/how much work it takes to maintain a 3.0?

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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:38 pm

northwood wrote:
bk1 wrote:Depends what the school curves to.

Ask to get your scholarship stips removed or don't assume you will have that scholarship when you start your second year.



how would you recommend asking to getting the stipulation removed?
I have a stipulation for my 75% scholly at a school that curves to a 3.3 In order to keep the scholarship, I need to have a 3.0 gpa at the end of each year ( 1L, 2L). While i realize that this allows me to be slightly below 50%, I would love to get rid of it ( I have been doing my total cost of attendance at this school with the 75% scholly being lost by the end of 1L.) While I would love to go here, if I do end up losing my scholarship, the total cost of attendance would leave me with so much debt, that I will either go fully gray, have a heart attack, or be a nervous wreck at graduation. As I have been in the workforce for 5 years, the idea of giving up my full time job ( that I absolutely despise) to basically put home loan on my brain and not be able to work scares me. While I really want to be a lawyer, and know deep down that this is what I want to do with the rest of my days, I also want to be able to have a house and not be worrying about paying the bills and interest rates.

I have been trying to think of ways to bring up this subject ( and waiting to see if i get a better scholly offer with no strings- but being realistic it wont happen) without coming off as greedy or ungrateful.( although I know I earned this with a lot of work and effort). Should I email the school, call them, or wait until I visit in March ( or is that totally unwise?).

Thanks for your help and best of luck to you with all that you do!


A 3.0 on a 3.3 scale is like bottom 25%. That's a good deal imo.

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birD
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby birD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 8:57 pm

the school I'm interested in has a 3.0 scale, so impossibly hard or no?

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Cupidity
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Cupidity » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:00 pm

Very hard. Everyone here is insanely smart

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birD
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby birD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:23 pm

Very hard. Everyone here is insanely smart


are you being serious or no...?

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txadv11
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby txadv11 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:25 pm


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Veyron
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Veyron » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:31 pm

birD wrote:interesting idea about asking, although I may be too scared to ask...

anyone with 1L experience want to chime in on how hard/how much work it takes to maintain a 3.0?


If a school below the top 20 or so, check to see if they put all the scholarship (smart) kids in the same section and make them fight it out for the high grades.

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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:34 pm

Veyron wrote:
birD wrote:interesting idea about asking, although I may be too scared to ask...

anyone with 1L experience want to chime in on how hard/how much work it takes to maintain a 3.0?


If a school below the top 20 or so, check to see if they put all the scholarship (smart) kids in the same section and make them fight it out for the high grades.



@_@ and so the rumor continues...

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mpj_3050
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby mpj_3050 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:37 pm

Veyron wrote:
birD wrote:interesting idea about asking, although I may be too scared to ask...

anyone with 1L experience want to chime in on how hard/how much work it takes to maintain a 3.0?


If a school below the top 20 or so, check to see if they put all the scholarship (smart) kids in the same section and make them fight it out for the high grades.


Definitely correct. I have a couple acceptances with stipulations. One has top 60% at the end of each year - if I can't make top 60% than I am dropping out - but the difference would be total of 16k if someone lost scholarship.
But with some schools the debt would be astronomical if you lost the scholarship.

Edit: I wonder if the stacking really does exist but it would be a good idea to ask how many keep their scholarships.

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birD
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby birD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:56 pm

I've definitely researched stacking that this school and it doesn't go on there thank god.

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birD
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby birD » Wed Jan 12, 2011 10:57 pm

it would be a good idea to ask how many keep their scholarships.


This is actually a really good idea. Who should I ask...? Financial aid maybe?

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Wed Jan 12, 2011 11:00 pm

If the school curves to a 3.3, and the scholarship is for 3.0, then you most likely have to remain in the top 80% (I got this estimation from examining Washington and Lee's curve in detail - insider info). If you cannot do that, things do not bode well for your future.

random5483
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby random5483 » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:31 pm

If the school has a 3.0 curve and a scholarship stipulation of 3.0 it basically means you have to outperform half the class or in other words end up in the top half of the class. Schools with lighter stipulations (ie. top half or top 75% etc) stipulations are less likely to reduce or waive them. Think about it this way, does a school really want to pay a scholarship to someone who ends up in the bottom of the class?

With that said, I don't know how hard or easy it is to get rid of the stipulation. Do not be afraid to ask. They have already accepted you. They will not revoke the offer over a question about removing the scholarship stipulation. Students who receive stipulations that are more stringent than top half of the class should be very vary. Basically, a 3.0 requirement in a school with a C+ or B- curve is a lot harder to maintain than a 3.0 requirement in a school with a 3.0 or 3.3 curve.

Law school involves some debt. If you really like the law do not be too debt averse. However, you should consider the school you are going to. Some schools (T3/T4) are generally not worth attending if you have to pay sticker, while other schools (T14 or above) are generally worth going to even if you pay sticker. Granted my last statement is a huge generalization and rational people can disagree.

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androstan
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby androstan » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:46 pm

Some schools will actually prorate your scholarship. In other words, if you fall a little below the GPA requirement, they only revoke some of the money. Sometimes they will also give the money back if you raise your grades back up after 2L.

Not a troll, these are the words of an actual admissions dean at a non T50.

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vanwinkle
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jan 13, 2011 12:47 pm

birD wrote:considering taking a full scholarship with stipulation of keeping a 3.0. Is it super hard to get 3.0 or above in LS? I honestly have no idea so any input would be appreciated.

birD wrote:the school I'm interested in has a 3.0 scale, so impossibly hard or no?

3.0 requirement with 3.0 median = 50/50 odds of success overall.

Do you want to bet your future on a coin flip?

Aqualibrium
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:01 pm

androstan wrote:Some schools will actually prorate your scholarship. In other words, if you fall a little below the GPA requirement, they only revoke some of the money. Sometimes they will also give the money back if you raise your grades back up after 2L.

Not a troll, these are the words of an actual admissions dean at a non T50.



LOL I don't think anyone would call you a troll. This fairly common practice (as in some schools do it some schools don't, some schools have a modified version of this where you can appeal your scholarship and they might give you all or some back).

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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:04 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
birD wrote:considering taking a full scholarship with stipulation of keeping a 3.0. Is it super hard to get 3.0 or above in LS? I honestly have no idea so any input would be appreciated.

birD wrote:the school I'm interested in has a 3.0 scale, so impossibly hard or no?

3.0 requirement with 3.0 median = 50/50 odds of success overall.

Do you want to bet your future on a coin flip?



TBF this could very well be the best deal op has. He/she is being incredibly vague on the school/range of school, but it's probably safe to say that it isn't a t25 and op doesn't have much of a shot of going to a school like that.

It may very well be that the range of school op has this offer from is the kind at which if you end up below median, you should probably cut your losses anyway. In that situation, you get a year to test out the waters tuition free, and you get to cut your losses after a year with very minimal debt. Sounds like a win win.

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vanwinkle
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby vanwinkle » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:06 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:It may very well be that the range of school op has this offer from is the kind at which if you end up below median, you should probably cut your losses anyway. In that situation, you get a year to test out the waters tuition free, and you get to cut your losses after a year with very minimal debt. Sounds like a win win.

If you consider "attending law school, accruing at least some non-dischargeable debt, doing below median and then dropping out" a win.

Aqualibrium
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Aqualibrium » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:14 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:It may very well be that the range of school op has this offer from is the kind at which if you end up below median, you should probably cut your losses anyway. In that situation, you get a year to test out the waters tuition free, and you get to cut your losses after a year with very minimal debt. Sounds like a win win.

If you consider "attending law school, accruing at least some non-dischargeable debt, doing below median and then dropping out" a win.


Most people that come onto this site are going to law school no matter what you tell them. If the op can go tuition free for an entire year and only pay living expenses and books, he/she is in a better position than quite a few of the law school at all costs folks. If op loses the scholarship, they are screwed anyway because median let alone below median isn't cutting it at the majority of schools. So you just cut your losses and go...spending 10k (estimated books and living for one year) on a pipe dream is better than spending 170k isn't it? In the end, if op does succeed, they spend about 30-40k over three years. I do think that's a win personally.

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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby Younger Abstention » Thu Jan 13, 2011 1:17 pm

Maintaining a 3.0 on a 3.3 curve is very easy. Likely, 80% of the class has above a 3.0. I would not let the requirement dissuade you from going to that school. Indeed, you should probably drop out if you get below 3.0 no matter what school you attend, provided that school is set at a B+ curve. -2L

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birD
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Re: how hard is it to maintain 3.0?

Postby birD » Thu Jan 13, 2011 2:12 pm

thanks for the input! For the record this school I'm considering is a T3. I think it makes more sense for me to go to this T3 for free rather than a top 30 school for sticker because I already have a job lined up back home. Do you think this is a smart move...?




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