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062914123
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Postby 062914123 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:32 pm

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Last edited by 062914123 on Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

chopper
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby chopper » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:39 pm

This is actually what I plan on doing.

First, don't worry too much about your UG major. If you want to be better prepared, take a few business related courses, I feel that economics would probably be better, than something like HR management or a finance course. Also, economics has some math in it, which is good because the GMAT does have a math section on it (it's relatively easy though).

Next, make sure you know what kind of admission requirements each school you apply to has for the JD/MBA, most make you apply to both programs. For the most part, the law school will have a higher median GPA than the MBA program.

One more thing, the GMAT is a lot different than the LSAT. I didn't take the GMAT yet, but was looking at some sample tests. The main difference is that you can take it at almost every time, and that it is computer based (it also costs $300).


Hope this helps.

HITeacher2
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby HITeacher2 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:45 pm

Hey guys,

I'm a Harvard JD/MBA and more than willing to answer questions about the program. Since you're college juniors though, allow me to recommend the following:

Apply to the 2+2 program at HBS. http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/2+2/

If you look at the statistics, it's designed for people who weren't business majors in undergrad.

Besides that, if you want to ask JD/MBA questions, shoot away :)

062914123
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby 062914123 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:50 pm

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Last edited by 062914123 on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

HITeacher2
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:01 am

bee wrote:Thanks!!! Did you major in something businessy in UG? If not,
1. Any anecdotes about the difficulties of the GMAT for someone with little exp with business classes?
2. How hard was the GMAT versus the LSAT? :oops:
3. Did you do HBS or HLS first, and how are you liking them
4. Goal career (generally)? And what are you doing/plan to do with your summers?

TIA! :D :D :D


Dual-degree in Japanese and Business Admin from UC Berkeley, but I'm pretty sure what I studied had almost no impact on my grad school apps. It's that I loved what I studied and was really able to thrive in it.

The GMAT has nothing to do with business. Nothing. It's like the SAT. It tests a lot of the same stuff the LSAT does on a lower level, plus algebra and grammar. I consider it much, much easier than the LSAT, assuming you know some of that math and grammar. I studied for 6 months for the LSAT and like a week for the GMAT, and my GMAT score was substantially higher.

I'm doing HBS first, and I LOOOOOOOVE it! Sooooo much! Seriously, best life choice ever. I'm actually seriously considering just not going to HLS at all cuz HBS is so awesome. I'm not gonna make that decision for a few more months though. People I know at HLS are pretty happy as well, but it seems way more stressful over there just because our job market picked up and theirs hasn't yet. It also helps that we don't disclose our grades (which have no impact on our employability) =p

I was TFA between undergrad and grad school. In case you're wondering, I actually got into both schools out of undergrad and deferred to do TFA, TFA had no impact on my admission). That said, education reform is my life calling and I know I want to get back into it. I'm probably going to try out consulting this summer, law firm next summer (we have a much easier time getting law firm offers 1L) and not sure about the third summer, just to see where I enjoy the most. Then I'm probably gonna work either consulting or biglaw for a few years and lateral back into education once my debt is paid off.

062914123
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby 062914123 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:38 am

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Last edited by 062914123 on Sun Jun 29, 2014 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

chopper
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby chopper » Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:36 am

bee wrote:Jeez, that all sounds amazing :shock: GL in all your endeavors, not that it really sounds like you need it, and ty for answering so quickly. Another q about the GMAT, if you don't mind--iyo what's the best way to "schedule" studying for the LSAT/GMAT...I'll be taking both pretty close to each other, and I'm trying to figure out how to effectively utilize my time. Did you take a GMAT/LSAT class or did you self-study, and do you feel that LSAT prep helps you a lot on the GMAT? TBH the GMAT is really freaking me out--I never liked math on standardized tests :?



What I plan on doing is too study more for the LSAT, as it is harder, and will also help to study for the LSAT, IMO.

HITeacher2
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:53 am

bee wrote:Jeez, that all sounds amazing :shock: GL in all your endeavors, not that it really sounds like you need it, and ty for answering so quickly. Another q about the GMAT, if you don't mind--iyo what's the best way to "schedule" studying for the LSAT/GMAT...I'll be taking both pretty close to each other, and I'm trying to figure out how to effectively utilize my time. Did you take a GMAT/LSAT class or did you self-study, and do you feel that LSAT prep helps you a lot on the GMAT? TBH the GMAT is really freaking me out--I never liked math on standardized tests :?


Studying for the LSAT to do well on the GMAT is a pretty solid strategy. I self-studied for both using books and that worked out pretty well, but I'm good at standardized tests and was pretty disciplined at the time. I would schedule at LEAST 4 weeks between your LSAT and GMAT (LSAT first) if you can help it, study only LSAT until the week of the LSAT, then cool down with studying only math that week so you don't freak out. Once you take your LSAT, switch to grammar, math and essay writing.

gerbal
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby gerbal » Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:47 am

HITeacher2 wrote:Hey guys,

I'm a Harvard JD/MBA and more than willing to answer questions about the program. Since you're college juniors though, allow me to recommend the following:

Apply to the 2+2 program at HBS. http://www.hbs.edu/mba/admissions/2+2/

If you look at the statistics, it's designed for people who weren't business majors in undergrad.

Besides that, if you want to ask JD/MBA questions, shoot away :)


Just curious, what made you decide to go for a JD/MBA? I read most JD/MBAs do their 1st year at the law school; is there a reason why you decided to do your first year at HBS? Also, do you see yourself having a job can make use of both degrees? From talking to other students/researching the matter, do you think your JD/MBA is going to make you less desirable to law firms (since they don't know when you might jump ship) or is that issue not so important since it's harvard and you'll be learning and networking with the best business students and might be able to make use of those connections even in the legal field? Also, what kind of summer internships (if any) did you have during undergrad? Thanks.

HITeacher2
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby HITeacher2 » Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:28 am

The reason most JD/MBAs start in law school is because most go to law school, realize they don't want to do law early in their 1L, and apply to the b-school. I got into both schools at the same time and there's little inconvenience in enrolling. I may or may not stick with it (ie: may drop the JD, do just the MBA).

This is all my observations and inferences, but all the evidence that I've seen has suggested to me that JD/MBAs are more attractive to law firms. This may just be at H, but every JD/MBA I know has had no problem getting a V10 internship the summer of their second year (ie: the equivalent of 1L summer). It's a firm-by-firm thing though - some firms won't consider JD/MBAs for the reason you mentioned, but a lot of firms (especially the really well known ones, Wachtell comes to mind) will give us priority without caring as much about our grades.

Once again, this is completely speculation, but I feel like part of it is that the firms know that if we wanted to do something else, we have the opportunity to do something else and don't need to go to biglaw to do it. We also have really good contacts in the b-school that can result in pretty solid business a few years down the pipeline, and firms seem to want to take on the risk for that possible reward.

I didn't have any brand-name summer internships in undergrad if that's what you're asking. I worked in hr-type stuff that I really enjoyed.

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robotclubmember
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby robotclubmember » Sun Jan 02, 2011 2:24 pm

bee wrote:I hope this is the right forum, if not please move :)

I have recently gotten it into my head for a number of reasons to pursue a JD/MBA...however, I'm a junior in UG already and didn't major in anything business-related. I was wondering what steps I should take specifically to prepare myself for the possibility of a JD/MBA i.e. pursuing relevant WE? Taking on a business-related minor? Sorry if this is a n00b question, but I thought TLS might have some good advice :D


Well, I don't think the average poster, even on TLS, should hang their hat on getting into Harvard... so... for the rest of us...

If you DON'T have 3.9+/175+ stats, then most likely, you won't be looking at Harvard.

In T14, the best JD/MBA programs would be UPenn, Northwestern, and Columbia, which I say because the quality of their programs are high and they are integrated such that the length is 3 years... maybe Cornell since they have a 3-year program, but their business school isn't really that great. Duke has a 3 1/2-year JD/MBA program as well, despite the length, I'd take Fuqua over Johnson MBA any day.

For any of these options, realistically, you're not getting in with anything under 2 years of WE, and with only two years, it should be pretty high quality. Even applicants with a few years of I-banking may get turned away at Wharton (UPenn MBA), where admissions would be particularly competitive compared to the other options presented.

Long story short, if you really want a JD/MBA, be prepared to get in the bunker and pay your dues for a few years. You're not getting into any good MBA programs with under 2 years unless your numbers are phenomenal and you come from a great undergrad. Usually MBA programs look for 5 years of WE, but if you go to law school first and then apply to MBA during 1L, they will be more lenient. However, they will still want experience. Anecdotally, Columbia's MBA program accepts maybe around 30% of CLS 1L's who apply to it. It's not a guarantee.

If you can give us some stats, we should be able to tailor a response more specific to your needs (what is your major, GPA, expected LSAT performance?). In the meantime, don't count on getting an MBA without good work experience. By good I mean, think Fortune 500, I-banking, consulting, etc. I'm a CPA in Big Four (work as consultant)... not an easy job to land but even with that, I think top schools are a reach until I put in a couple more years (@ 2 1/2 years now). Law schools on the other hand should be a breeze to get into, and provide a viable backdoor into MBA program by applying as 1L. Anyway, it's going to be a long haul buddy. Try to get a good summer internship in business now, I wouldn't have gotten my foot in the door in Big Four without solid internships. Like poster above said, it doesn't have to be a name-brand internship. But it does have to be something you enjoy and thrive at so that you can speak intelligently to the experience and demonstrate that you provided value to your employer and gained experience that will enable you to contribute meaningfully to discourse in the business school.

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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby etlien » Sun Feb 06, 2011 8:14 am

Just stumbled upon this. Been accepted in JD programme at Duke and NU and will definitely apply for JD/MBA in first or second year mostly because I have taken the GMAT (750 = pretty solid score?), the additional work involved is minimal and I have nothing to lose by trying. The part that is a bit dicey though is my work experience. Graduated in '09 and was unemployed for about 10 months due to economy/other reasons. Finally found a Compliance job in April '10 then jumped ship in August '10 for a position in Risk at another bank.

Would Ivy undergrad credentials + good GMAT + already being in the Law School of the University be sufficient to carry me in my MBA application despite my iffy work experience? Given getting into JD/MBA is a big consideration for me, would taking the Duke offer make more sense since Fuqua is less competitive than Kellogg (I assume based on Kellogg having the bigger name)?

Am also considering deferring for a year and working some more to beef up my resume, but thats conditionally on me finding a better job.

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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby robotclubmember » Sun Feb 06, 2011 4:54 pm

etlien wrote:Just stumbled upon this. Been accepted in JD programme at Duke and NU and will definitely apply for JD/MBA in first or second year mostly because I have taken the GMAT (750 = pretty solid score?), the additional work involved is minimal and I have nothing to lose by trying. The part that is a bit dicey though is my work experience. Graduated in '09 and was unemployed for about 10 months due to economy/other reasons. Finally found a Compliance job in April '10 then jumped ship in August '10 for a position in Risk at another bank.

Would Ivy undergrad credentials + good GMAT + already being in the Law School of the University be sufficient to carry me in my MBA application despite my iffy work experience? Given getting into JD/MBA is a big consideration for me, would taking the Duke offer make more sense since Fuqua is less competitive than Kellogg (I assume based on Kellogg having the bigger name)?

Am also considering deferring for a year and working some more to beef up my resume, but thats conditionally on me finding a better job.


NU is well aware of students using the JD program to backdoor into Kellogg. My feeling is that, with rare exceptions, they have a WE floor of 2 years, and it's a pretty hard floor. Even that is a bit of a gamble.

In general, I think NU has better career prospects than Duke does, in its JD and MBA program, though the JD differences are negligible (the MBA differences are not negligible). If you are really interested in the MBA, you should work. Not just because it will get you admitted, but because if you truly want an MBA, and you're not just a belt-notcher looking to add a couple inches to your penis by getting some fancy degrees, then you should just want to have the work experience. You will be able to make virtually no contributions to the discussions in Kellogg's MBA program with <1 year WE. Have you even thought about how out of your league you would be there, in a class with people with an average of 5 years WE coming from banking and consulting? Also, MBA admissions are a lot less numbers driven. 750 is a strong score, but the personal statement for MBA admissions + work experience overshadows the GMAT's significance pretty heavily. With only one year of WE, I doubt you could put together a compelling statement of purpose as to why you want the degree.

Keep in mind most JD/MBA's go into big law anyway, in which case, the MBA didn't really make that big of a difference. So if you just want a high-paying job, ditch the MBA idea now. To get a solid MBA, you'd need a few more years working your bank job making 70K a year or whatever, and every year you spend there, you lose 160K a year by deferring your legal education. If you legitimately want the MBA, put in the work experience and make it happen, otherwise, consider the opportunity costs of the JD/MBA plan, considering it is unlikely to backdoor into the Kellogg MBA program even with only two years WE (virtually impossible with one), and the Duke MBA is a waste of time if you already have the Duke JD.

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retake
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby retake » Mon Feb 07, 2011 12:17 am

I really, really don't understand all these people wanting to get JD/MBAs. Both degrees have their uses. Both will open doors. Just fucking pick one.

Can you name just ONE job where having both of them together would be necessary?

etlien
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby etlien » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:26 am

robotclubmember wrote:
etlien wrote:Just stumbled upon this. Been accepted in JD programme at Duke and NU and will definitely apply for JD/MBA in first or second year mostly because I have taken the GMAT (750 = pretty solid score?), the additional work involved is minimal and I have nothing to lose by trying. The part that is a bit dicey though is my work experience. Graduated in '09 and was unemployed for about 10 months due to economy/other reasons. Finally found a Compliance job in April '10 then jumped ship in August '10 for a position in Risk at another bank.

Would Ivy undergrad credentials + good GMAT + already being in the Law School of the University be sufficient to carry me in my MBA application despite my iffy work experience? Given getting into JD/MBA is a big consideration for me, would taking the Duke offer make more sense since Fuqua is less competitive than Kellogg (I assume based on Kellogg having the bigger name)?

Am also considering deferring for a year and working some more to beef up my resume, but thats conditionally on me finding a better job.


NU is well aware of students using the JD program to backdoor into Kellogg. My feeling is that, with rare exceptions, they have a WE floor of 2 years, and it's a pretty hard floor. Even that is a bit of a gamble.

In general, I think NU has better career prospects than Duke does, in its JD and MBA program, though the JD differences are negligible (the MBA differences are not negligible). If you are really interested in the MBA, you should work. Not just because it will get you admitted, but because if you truly want an MBA, and you're not just a belt-notcher looking to add a couple inches to your penis by getting some fancy degrees, then you should just want to have the work experience. You will be able to make virtually no contributions to the discussions in Kellogg's MBA program with <1 year WE. Have you even thought about how out of your league you would be there, in a class with people with an average of 5 years WE coming from banking and consulting? Also, MBA admissions are a lot less numbers driven. 750 is a strong score, but the personal statement for MBA admissions + work experience overshadows the GMAT's significance pretty heavily. With only one year of WE, I doubt you could put together a compelling statement of purpose as to why you want the degree.

Keep in mind most JD/MBA's go into big law anyway, in which case, the MBA didn't really make that big of a difference. So if you just want a high-paying job, ditch the MBA idea now. To get a solid MBA, you'd need a few more years working your bank job making 70K a year or whatever, and every year you spend there, you lose 160K a year by deferring your legal education. If you legitimately want the MBA, put in the work experience and make it happen, otherwise, consider the opportunity costs of the JD/MBA plan, considering it is unlikely to backdoor into the Kellogg MBA program even with only two years WE (virtually impossible with one), and the Duke MBA is a waste of time if you already have the Duke JD.


Thanks for the advice. My ultimate goal is to move into PE/VC so being a lawyer really is a stepping stone towards that. I am not that familiar with MBA admissions but have been told that its not a numbers game like law school so I figured the chances of getting into a good MBA program without the 2 years WE is pretty slim. Realistically, I will go back for the MBA after a few years as a lawyer, but shaving off a year and a half or even two years for the two degrees overall is not a bad deal, so might as well give it a try especially since the GMAT score would expire by the time I get out of law school.

Why do you think the Duke MBA is a waste of time if you already have a Duke JD?

etlien
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby etlien » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:29 am

retake wrote:I really, really don't understand all these people wanting to get JD/MBAs. Both degrees have their uses. Both will open doors. Just fucking pick one.

Can you name just ONE job where having both of them together would be necessary?


Uh...you do realise neither degree is necessary for any job right...

bdubs
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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby bdubs » Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:44 am

I'm applying to JD/MBA programs this cycle. My background is pretty different from yours though (Finance Undergrad, 5 years of WE). Feel free to PM with questions about the application process.

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Re: JD/MBA Question

Postby robotclubmember » Mon Feb 07, 2011 3:22 pm

etlien wrote:Thanks for the advice. My ultimate goal is to move into PE/VC so being a lawyer really is a stepping stone towards that. I am not that familiar with MBA admissions but have been told that its not a numbers game like law school so I figured the chances of getting into a good MBA program without the 2 years WE is pretty slim. Realistically, I will go back for the MBA after a few years as a lawyer, but shaving off a year and a half or even two years for the two degrees overall is not a bad deal, so might as well give it a try especially since the GMAT score would expire by the time I get out of law school.

Why do you think the Duke MBA is a waste of time if you already have a Duke JD?


Why do I have this suspicion that if you someone asked you to describe what a day in the live of someone working in private equity or venture capital was like, you would have no idea how to answer? I think the only thing you know is how much money they make. But we're all in it for the money, so I guess that's okay.

The Duke MBA won't get any more money than the Duke JD. Wall Street doesn't really hire big from Duke. They certainly do hire but from their, but they're not your best choice. NU's MBA program probably opens doors that their JD program doesn't. Kellogg is an M7 B-school. Duke is strong but there is a considerable difference between an M7 and a non-M7. It's a big step down, especially in the elite world of PE/VC.

If you want PE/VC, and you want to shave a few years off of your education, why not just ditch law school and go for a straight-up MBA program? Instead of robbing seats from people who may actually want to practice law, lol.




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