IP Law

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lawschoolnonsense
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IP Law

Postby lawschoolnonsense » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:26 pm

Is an engineering or science background necessary to pursue IP Law? Why or why not?

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merichard87
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Re: IP Law

Postby merichard87 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:39 pm

Patent Law - yes, any other types of IP - not technically but from what I've heard and seen in networking events, talking to friends, family members and here on TLS firms have more interest in applicants who have the technical backgrounds so they can do all aspects of IP.

OP: what is your background?

lawschoolnonsense
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Re: IP Law

Postby lawschoolnonsense » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:43 pm

merichard87 wrote:Patent Law - yes, any other types of IP - not technically but from what I've heard and seen in networking events, talking to friends, family members and here on TLS firms have more interest in applicants who have the technical backgrounds so they can do all aspects of IP.

OP: what is your background?


Political Science/Religion

IP stuff sounds interesting, but I have no tech background to speak of.

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merichard87
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Re: IP Law

Postby merichard87 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:46 pm

Patent Law is definitely out for you but if you Want Copyright, Trademark, etc.. its worth a shot. Just try to make a good argument about why you are interested.

eecs
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Re: IP Law

Postby eecs » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:48 pm

merichard87 wrote:Patent Law - yes, any other types of IP - not technically but from what I've heard and seen in networking events, talking to friends, family members and here on TLS firms have more interest in applicants who have the technical backgrounds so they can do all aspects of IP.

OP: what is your background?


I don't think it is strictly necessary for patent litigation, though it is probably common. For prosecution, though, it is necessary because in order to qualify for the patent bar you need a technical degree.

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BriaTharen
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Re: IP Law

Postby BriaTharen » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:52 pm

eecs wrote:
merichard87 wrote:Patent Law - yes, any other types of IP - not technically but from what I've heard and seen in networking events, talking to friends, family members and here on TLS firms have more interest in applicants who have the technical backgrounds so they can do all aspects of IP.

OP: what is your background?


I don't think it is strictly necessary for patent litigation, though it is probably common. For prosecution, though, it is necessary because in order to qualify for the patent bar you need a technical degree.

Seriously? What firm in their right mind is going to hire someone who has no science/tech knowledge to speak of be a patent litigator?

OP- merichard87 so far is the most spot on. IP is a decent size range of topics encompassing copyright, trademarks, patents, and so on. The only area in which a science/tech degree is required is patent. To do patent work, you have to pass the patent bar, which is only open to science/engineering degrees. Even so, certain degrees for patent are more valuable than others. You having a liberal arts degree can do anything EXCEPT patent.

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mcubberly
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Re: IP Law

Postby mcubberly » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:08 am

How are career prospects in copyright/trademark? I've been trying to figure out how a non-tech background person would fare looking for these jobs...from some earlier threads it looks like not so great.

thegor1987
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Re: IP Law

Postby thegor1987 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:13 am

If you really want to get into IP, one option is that since engineering schools at universities are usually 'separate' colleges from the liberal arts college you got your political science degree from. You could actually simultaneously attend law school and engineering school at the same time. I think GW actually has a dual degree program for this, but I am sure you could negotiate such a program with schools that do not specifically have such a program.

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Lokomani
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Re: IP Law

Postby Lokomani » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:23 am

thegor1987 wrote:If you really want to...You could actually simultaneously attend law school and engineering school at the same time. I think GW actually has a dual degree program for this, but I am sure you could negotiate such a program with schools that do not specifically have such a program.


This is literally the worst idea I have ever heard.

thegor1987
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Re: IP Law

Postby thegor1987 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:28 am

Lokomani wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:If you really want to...You could actually simultaneously attend law school and engineering school at the same time. I think GW actually has a dual degree program for this, but I am sure you could negotiate such a program with schools that do not specifically have such a program.


This is literally the worst idea I have ever heard.


Why? You wont convince me though I'm biased.

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Lokomani
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Re: IP Law

Postby Lokomani » Sat Dec 25, 2010 3:50 am

:lol: Have you been to engineering school? It is not a joke, and will be the end of you if coupled with law school. These are professional careers, not mix and match outfits.

I know or have talked with several lawyers about IP law specifically, and this is what I have gleaned from partners at Finnegan on down.

1) Most boutiques will need a VERY strong resume to even look at your application w/o a specialized degree. Many said flat out that no advanced degree= trash bin (and this was true pre-recession). Lawyers who are not full service can be a huge liability for a boutique that has to babysit them and tag out lawyers for even small motions in court.

2) Those who had stayed at the same boutique to become partner moved in major clientele (think Toyota and Sony). These companies require things such as a lawyer who can understand and appreciate the technology and significance of the company's IP concerns (read: advanced degree+ work experience in related field).

3) Of those who were hired on as transfers, the primary reason they were accepted for a lateral was that they had their own client book, who would work specifically with that lawyer. (Read: experienced, connected).

thegor1987
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Re: IP Law

Postby thegor1987 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:14 am

Lokomani wrote::lol: Have you been to engineering school? It is not a joke, and will be the end of you if coupled with law school. These are professional careers, not mix and match outfits.

I know or have talked with several lawyers about IP law specifically, and this is what I have gleaned from partners at Finnegan on down.

1) Most boutiques will need a VERY strong resume to even look at your application w/o a specialized degree. Many said flat out that no advanced degree= trash bin (and this was true pre-recession). Lawyers who are not full service can be a huge liability for a boutique that has to babysit them and tag out lawyers for even small motions in court.

2) Those who had stayed at the same boutique to become partner moved in major clientele (think Toyota and Sony). These companies require things such as a lawyer who can
understand and appreciate the technology and significance of the company's IP concerns (read: advanced degree+ work experience in related field).

3) Of those who were hired on as transfers, the primary reason they were accepted for a lateral was that they had their own client book, who would work specifically with that lawyer. (Read: experienced, connected).



All the issues you raise about work experience and advanced degree are legitimate, however, they are not issues that are special too students who decide to get their engineering degree during law school.

So my idea to get both degrees at the same time still remains viable. Very difficult, but viable.

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merichard87
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Re: IP Law

Postby merichard87 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:44 am

I will second the idea that getting a law degree and engineering degree at the same time is ummmm, far-fetched. The main reason for me is because engineering is more than theory. You need to really see the application and if you are in law school at the same time as engineering school how are you going to get that experience?

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BriaTharen
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Re: IP Law

Postby BriaTharen » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:48 am

Lokomani wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:If you really want to...You could actually simultaneously attend law school and engineering school at the same time. I think GW actually has a dual degree program for this, but I am sure you could negotiate such a program with schools that do not specifically have such a program.


This is literally the worst idea I have ever heard.

As someone who has been through both engineering school and now my first semester of law school, I second that this is the worst idea I have ever heard.

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dood
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Re: IP Law

Postby dood » Sun Dec 26, 2010 3:20 am

BriaTharen wrote:
Lokomani wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:If you really want to...You could actually simultaneously attend law school and engineering school at the same time. I think GW actually has a dual degree program for this, but I am sure you could negotiate such a program with schools that do not specifically have such a program.


This is literally the worst idea I have ever heard.

As someone who has been through both engineering school and now my first semester of law school, I second that this is the worst idea I have ever heard.


seriously. i hope that suggestion was a flame. lol.


EDIT: HAHAHAHHAAHA @ us for even thinking this was not a a flame. engineering and law at the same time? HAHAHAHAH
HAHAHAHA
HAHAHHAHA
HAHAHA

sbalive
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Re: IP Law

Postby sbalive » Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:02 am

BriaTharen wrote:
eecs wrote:
merichard87 wrote:Patent Law - yes, any other types of IP - not technically but from what I've heard and seen in networking events, talking to friends, family members and here on TLS firms have more interest in applicants who have the technical backgrounds so they can do all aspects of IP.

OP: what is your background?


I don't think it is strictly necessary for patent litigation, though it is probably common. For prosecution, though, it is necessary because in order to qualify for the patent bar you need a technical degree.

Seriously? What firm in their right mind is going to hire someone who has no science/tech knowledge to speak of be a patent litigator?


:roll:

IP boutiques generally hire only those with science/engineering UGs (and often life sciences only with PhD). There aren't that many free-standing boutiques left, and I assume that as they integrate more with the firms that have taken them over, what's left (i.e. Ropes NY, Howrey SF, etc.) will adapt their hiring to being more generalist. But, even now, patent lit groups at places like Quinn and Kirkland as well as other major firms hire lots of associates who don't have science/engineering backgrounds.

The same goes for IP transactional work and to an even greater extent for corporate in tech-oriented firms. The only thing you absolutely need a background for is patent prosecution, and if you want to do that ideally you should pay as little as possible for your JD, ideally zero, since it's becoming so much of a commodity business. OP on the other hand would need to gun for best school possible, try to clerk (for lit), etc.

What's going to matter most are first and foremost what school you go to, then grades, and then your interests and ability to demonstrate the seriousness of those interests (journal and extracurricular activity). Of course if you did have a tech background, you get a big boost + you can always land at a boutique or a practice group that only hires from the background so if your grades tank, you have at least some options.

r6_philly
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Re: IP Law

Postby r6_philly » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:31 pm

I have been browsing through T14 faculty bios and I am surprised to find many people with IP law specialties without science UG degrees. So it can't be that necessary.

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pu_golf88
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Re: IP Law

Postby pu_golf88 » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:37 pm

r6_philly wrote:I have been browsing through T14 faculty bios and I am surprised to find many people with IP law specialties without science UG degrees. So it can't be that necessary.


I had a professor for a business law course that was doing research in intellectual property law and had BS in poli sci along with a JD. Although it may not be necessary to research it, it might has well be to practice.

LOL at engineering school and law school. I haven't started law school, but I do have my BS in engineering. There's a reason most engineers don't even try to do a minor. I couldn't imagine trying to do law school as well.

thegor1987
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Re: IP Law

Postby thegor1987 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:44 pm

pu_golf88 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I have been browsing through T14 faculty bios and I am surprised to find many people with IP law specialties without science UG degrees. So it can't be that necessary.


I had a professor for a business law course that was doing research in intellectual property law and had BS in poli sci along with a JD. Although it may not be necessary to research it, it might has well be to practice.

LOL at engineering school and law school. I haven't started law school, but I do have my BS in engineering. There's a reason most engineers don't even try to do a minor. I couldn't imagine trying to do law school as well.


you wouldn't actually be doing it at the same time. You would to engineering for one year. Then law for a year. Then engineering for a year. Then law for a year. etc... I hope no one actually thought I meant taking engineering classes at the same time as going to law school.

edit: I know people at my UG that are pretty badass though, so my opinion of what is realistically possible might vary from somebody else
Last edited by thegor1987 on Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

r6_philly
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Re: IP Law

Postby r6_philly » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:47 pm

thegor1987 wrote:you wouldn't actually be doing it at the same time. You would to engineering for one year. Then law for a year. Then engineering for a year. Then law for a year. etc... I hope no one actually thought I meant taking engineering classes at the same time as going to law school.


I am sure others have done dual degrees without doing alternating semesters. I enjoy the mixture of classes and I would want to take both at the same time.

thegor1987
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Re: IP Law

Postby thegor1987 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:56 pm

r6_philly wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:you wouldn't actually be doing it at the same time. You would to engineering for one year. Then law for a year. Then engineering for a year. Then law for a year. etc... I hope no one actually thought I meant taking engineering classes at the same time as going to law school.


I am sure others have done dual degrees without doing alternating semesters. I enjoy the mixture of classes and I would want to take both at the same time.


I agree this is possible as well and would be as fulfilling as the former. However most JD/MD programs, or JD/PhD programs are split up so that you take a year or 2 at the graduate or medical school. Then a year or 2 at the law school etc... I don't see why it would be any different with an engineering program.

I am sure though when you are in such a program no one is going to stop you from taking a law class during your graduates studies block if for some legitimate reason you needed to do that.

r6_philly
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Re: IP Law

Postby r6_philly » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:00 pm

thegor1987 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
thegor1987 wrote:you wouldn't actually be doing it at the same time. You would to engineering for one year. Then law for a year. Then engineering for a year. Then law for a year. etc... I hope no one actually thought I meant taking engineering classes at the same time as going to law school.


I am sure others have done dual degrees without doing alternating semesters. I enjoy the mixture of classes and I would want to take both at the same time.


I agree this is possible as well and would be as fulfilling as the former. However most JD/MD programs, or JD/PhD programs are split up so that you take a year or 2 at the graduate or medical school. Then a year or 2 at the law school etc... I don't see why it would be any different with an engineering program.

I am sure though when you are in such a program no one is going to stop you from taking a law class during your graduates studies block if for some legitimate reason you needed to do that.


I think JD/PhD or even JD/MS in engineering is rare, and are usually customized, so it's up to you to work out a plan of study. I am still considering a JD/MS in CS for myself, and I would definitely petition to work on both concurrently. I would guess you can take the PhD course work (toward masters) during the JD, but will have to work on dissertation after JD. Either way is fine I guess, but I think you can make either work.

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rayiner
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Re: IP Law

Postby rayiner » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:28 pm

mcubberly wrote:How are career prospects in copyright/trademark? I've been trying to figure out how a non-tech background person would fare looking for these jobs...from some earlier threads it looks like not so great.


~0.




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