Come in and choose the university I go to :)

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redgreenpaper
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Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby redgreenpaper » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:23 pm

Alright so is it better to go to an undergrad university, such as U of T (Toronto), where I can maintain mediocre marks (like 3.2 GPA) because of the bell curve or is it better to go to a half-ass university (such as... Ryerson I think?) and get a 3.7 GPA or higher?

If it is indeed better to go to a half-ass university, shouldn't everyone who wants to be a lawyer go to the easiest marking and least competitive undergrad universities?

EDIT: What about York university? Change all the 'Ryerson's' in my question to 'York'
Last edited by redgreenpaper on Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Knock
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby Knock » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:23 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:Alright so is it better to go to an undergrad university, such as U of T (Toronto), where I can maintain mediocre marks (like 3.2 GPA) because of the bell curve or is it better to go to a half-ass university (such as... Ryerson I think?) and get a 3.7 GPA or higher?

If it is indeed better to go to a half-ass university, shouldn't everyone who wants to be a lawyer go to the easiest marking and least competitive undergrad universities?


Yes, and yes.

/thread

redgreenpaper
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby redgreenpaper » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:29 pm

Knock wrote:
redgreenpaper wrote:Alright so is it better to go to an undergrad university, such as U of T (Toronto), where I can maintain mediocre marks (like 3.2 GPA) because of the bell curve or is it better to go to a half-ass university (such as... Ryerson I think?) and get a 3.7 GPA or higher?

If it is indeed better to go to a half-ass university, shouldn't everyone who wants to be a lawyer go to the easiest marking and least competitive undergrad universities?


Yes, and yes.

/thread


can u please identify which yes does with what? the first paragraph cannot be answered with 'yes'

EDIT: NVM just saw your underline

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Knock
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby Knock » Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:00 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:
Knock wrote:
redgreenpaper wrote:Alright so is it better to go to an undergrad university, such as U of T (Toronto), where I can maintain mediocre marks (like 3.2 GPA) because of the bell curve or is it better to go to a half-ass university (such as... Ryerson I think?) and get a 3.7 GPA or higher?

If it is indeed better to go to a half-ass university, shouldn't everyone who wants to be a lawyer go to the easiest marking and least competitive undergrad universities?


Yes, and yes.

/thread


can u please identify which yes does with what? the first paragraph cannot be answered with 'yes'

EDIT: NVM just saw your underline


Sorry for the short answer, but glad to be more detailed if necessary.

serdog
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby serdog » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:01 am

Be carefully due to the number of different grading system conversion can really hurt Canada GPA

leggy1T1
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby leggy1T1 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:27 am

serdog wrote:Be carefully due to the number of different grading system conversion can really hurt Canada GPA


This is true. U of T has way more cred than Ryerson - even among Cdn law schools.
Unless you're doing a practical program (nursing, nutrition, business) you'd be insane to choose Ryerson.

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dextermorgan
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby dextermorgan » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:18 am

Knock wrote:
redgreenpaper wrote:Alright so is it better to go to an undergrad university, such as U of T (Toronto), where I can maintain mediocre marks (like 3.2 GPA) because of the bell curve or is it better to go to a half-ass university (such as... Ryerson I think?) and get a 3.7 GPA or higher?

If it is indeed better to go to a half-ass university, shouldn't everyone who wants to be a lawyer go to the easiest marking and least competitive undergrad universities?


Yes, and yes.

/thread

bigwillie
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby bigwillie » Fri Dec 24, 2010 12:57 pm

This just seems like an awful reason to decide where you're going to be spending the next 4 years of your life. Over the course of your undergraduate career many things could arise that may change your mind. Just go to a school where you think you'd enjoy yourself/study something your interested in, if you want to go to law school and you're worried about grades just work hard.

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Tanicius
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby Tanicius » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:23 pm

Knock wrote:
redgreenpaper wrote:Alright so is it better to go to an undergrad university, such as U of T (Toronto), where I can maintain mediocre marks (like 3.2 GPA) because of the bell curve or is it better to go to a half-ass university (such as... Ryerson I think?) and get a 3.7 GPA or higher?

If it is indeed better to go to a half-ass university, shouldn't everyone who wants to be a lawyer go to the easiest marking and least competitive undergrad universities?


Yes, and yes.

/thread


Knock could you please clarify which yes answers each question? Does the first yes answer the first question or the second question, and does the second yes answer the same question or the question that the first yes doesn't answer?

Taffybear2
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby Taffybear2 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 1:24 pm

although at this point you may be sure that you are dead set on going to law school, but you have four years of undergrad to figure yourself out and by the end that time it's up you may have completely changed your mind. I also wouldn't sell yourself short in that you don't know yet how you are going to perform in college. Going to a top undergrad can will challenge you in your critical thinking skills that will be most necessary for law school, as well as developing a strong work ethic is very important. My advice is to go to a good school where you will hopefully be able to minimize your undergrad debt, and most importantly pick a major that you think you will really enjoy and that way you will be able to get the highest marks in your four years. Go in with an open mind and take classes that you may have never heard of before and find something that interests you.

leggy1T1
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby leggy1T1 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:42 pm

Canadian undergrads all cost the same. OP would be minimizing intellectual growth by choosing R. If s/he wants a practical/professional degree, like I said, Ryerson is fine. But U of T has one of the best art/sci programs in the country, where you're learning from leading scholars. I got into a grad program at Cambridge, England, no problem after doing well at U of T. The same cannot be said for Ryerson, b/c people don't recognize the name. Just fyi, following on last poster's excellent advice re: selecting law school before you've even completed UG.

And if s/he wants to go to law school in Canada, then going to U of T gives you a much better shot - particularly at the top 3 (Osgoode, U of T, McGill). U of T especially likes to recruit its own graduates.

Also, not sure if this is a factor, but it's certainly more expensive to live close to Ryerson vs. U of T, just because its centred in Toronto's entertainment/financial district.

serdog
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby serdog » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:50 pm

UofT places 17 worldwide(Tops depending on program in Canada) Ryerson doesn't place international and 49 in Canada. If your going to attend in Canada you really should go for UBC, UoT or Mcgil(+maybe Queens and dal) if you have the marks( I turn some money at UVIC for UBC)

picking Ryerson over UofT is like Picking North Dakota State University over Princeton if the money was equal because you MIGHT get better marks at NDSU.

thegor1987
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby thegor1987 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:57 pm

Go to the best college you can get into.

Fortunately the LSAT is weighed heavier in law school admissions and it is possible to get into a T14 even with a less than stellar GPA. You will also have more opportunities at a more prestigious school.

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kwais
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby kwais » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:11 pm

Taffybear2 wrote:although at this point you may be sure that you are dead set on going to law school, but you have four years of undergrad to figure yourself out and by the end that time it's up you may have completely changed your mind. I also wouldn't sell yourself short in that you don't know yet how you are going to perform in college. Going to a top undergrad can will challenge you in your critical thinking skills that will be most necessary for law school, as well as developing a strong work ethic is very important. My advice is to go to a good school where you will hopefully be able to minimize your undergrad debt, and most importantly pick a major that you think you will really enjoy and that way you will be able to get the highest marks in your four years. Go in with an open mind and take classes that you may have never heard of before and find something that interests you.


wait one minute now. are you saying that life is about lots of things and not just the GPA you can report to law schools? that does not square with the really smart, really interesting, well-rounded people on TLS. how to reconcile?

bigkahuna2020
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:47 pm

leggy1T1 wrote:Canadian undergrads all cost the same. OP would be minimizing intellectual growth by choosing R. If s/he wants a practical/professional degree, like I said, Ryerson is fine. But U of T has one of the best art/sci programs in the country, where you're learning from leading scholars. I got into a grad program at Cambridge, England, no problem after doing well at U of T. The same cannot be said for Ryerson, b/c people don't recognize the name. Just fyi, following on last poster's excellent advice re: selecting law school before you've even completed UG.

And if s/he wants to go to law school in Canada, then going to U of T gives you a much better shot - particularly at the top 3 (Osgoode, U of T, McGill). U of T especially likes to recruit its own graduates.

Also, not sure if this is a factor, but it's certainly more expensive to live close to Ryerson vs. U of T, just because its centred in Toronto's entertainment/financial district.


Is Osgoode better than UBC? Srs question.

Saltqjibo
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby Saltqjibo » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:50 pm

U of T will murder your GPA. I've attended 3 unis in canada all well ranked (top 5 -- if you could rank them based on rep) and U of T is by far the most difficult. You will find you have profs who test on material they didn't teach just to bring the average down to the mandated C level and the like. Fair warning.

edit: and I say this with an A average so its not just sour grapes

bigkahuna2020
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:33 pm

Saltqjibo wrote:U of T will murder your GPA. I've attended 3 unis in canada all well ranked (top 5 -- if you could rank them based on rep) and U of T is by far the most difficult. You will find you have profs who test on material they didn't teach just to bring the average down to the mandated C level and the like. Fair warning.

edit: and I say this with an A average so its not just sour grapes


Er--you went to three unis in Canada? Weird.

leggy1T1
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby leggy1T1 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:12 pm

bigkahuna2020 wrote:
leggy1T1 wrote:Canadian undergrads all cost the same. OP would be minimizing intellectual growth by choosing R. If s/he wants a practical/professional degree, like I said, Ryerson is fine. But U of T has one of the best art/sci programs in the country, where you're learning from leading scholars. I got into a grad program at Cambridge, England, no problem after doing well at U of T. The same cannot be said for Ryerson, b/c people don't recognize the name. Just fyi, following on last poster's excellent advice re: selecting law school before you've even completed UG.

And if s/he wants to go to law school in Canada, then going to U of T gives you a much better shot - particularly at the top 3 (Osgoode, U of T, McGill). U of T especially likes to recruit its own graduates.

Also, not sure if this is a factor, but it's certainly more expensive to live close to Ryerson vs. U of T, just because its centred in Toronto's entertainment/financial district.


Is Osgoode better than UBC? Srs question.


Yep - but also consider where you want to work. Obvi UBC is better placed for west coast (i.e. Vancouver/Victoria/Calgary/Edmonton) work, whereas Osgoode is awesome for Toronto.

leggy1T1
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby leggy1T1 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:14 pm

Saltqjibo wrote:U of T will murder your GPA. I've attended 3 unis in canada all well ranked (top 5 -- if you could rank them based on rep) and U of T is by far the most difficult. You will find you have profs who test on material they didn't teach just to bring the average down to the mandated C level and the like. Fair warning.

edit: and I say this with an A average so its not just sour grapes


This is all true. But then your A average means so much more - and my LSAC GPA is higher than my U of T cGPA.

To be blunt: Ryerson is just not taken seriously. Toronto, as serdog pointed out, at least gives you some sticker prestige in Canada.

leggy1T1
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby leggy1T1 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:28 pm

leggy1T1 wrote:
bigkahuna2020 wrote:
leggy1T1 wrote:Canadian undergrads all cost the same. OP would be minimizing intellectual growth by choosing R. If s/he wants a practical/professional degree, like I said, Ryerson is fine. But U of T has one of the best art/sci programs in the country, where you're learning from leading scholars. I got into a grad program at Cambridge, England, no problem after doing well at U of T. The same cannot be said for Ryerson, b/c people don't recognize the name. Just fyi, following on last poster's excellent advice re: selecting law school before you've even completed UG.

And if s/he wants to go to law school in Canada, then going to U of T gives you a much better shot - particularly at the top 3 (Osgoode, U of T, McGill). U of T especially likes to recruit its own graduates.

Also, not sure if this is a factor, but it's certainly more expensive to live close to Ryerson vs. U of T, just because its centred in Toronto's entertainment/financial district.


Is Osgoode better than UBC? Srs question.


Yep - but also consider where you want to work. Obvi UBC is better placed for west coast (i.e. Vancouver/Victoria/Calgary/Edmonton) work, whereas Osgoode is awesome for Toronto.


I double-checked this, just to make sure I wasn't giving you bad advice. (see http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/09/16/ranking-canada’s-law-schools/)


The actual rankings are:

U of T
McGill
Osgoode (both M&O tied at 2nd last year)
UBC
Victoria
Queens

bigkahuna2020
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby bigkahuna2020 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:32 pm

Also, why such an insanely wide range. What about mid level schools like UOttawa, Queens, UWO and the like?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:35 pm

Interesting to note that GPA is more important than LSAT to Canadian law schools. Reverse is true in the U.S.

redgreenpaper
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby redgreenpaper » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:20 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Interesting to note that GPA is more important than LSAT to Canadian law schools. Reverse is true in the U.S.


Is this fact confirmed? Also, I editted my question if you guys have some advice about York University.

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dresden doll
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby dresden doll » Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:27 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Interesting to note that GPA is more important than LSAT to Canadian law schools. Reverse is true in the U.S.


Considering vigorous grade deflation that goes on in Canadian schools, that would make sense.

The Real Jack McCoy
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Re: Come in and choose the university I go to :)

Postby The Real Jack McCoy » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:59 pm

redgreenpaper wrote:
CanadianWolf wrote:Interesting to note that GPA is more important than LSAT to Canadian law schools. Reverse is true in the U.S.


Is this fact confirmed? Also, I editted my question if you guys have some advice about York University.


Yes, it is most certainly true. The main reason is probably that GPAs from Canadian schools are, at least to other Canadian schools, better and more reliable indicators than their American counterparts. The Canadian educational system is simply more uniform than the American system. U of T is something of an outlier grades wise, but other schools know this, so you should get a little more leeway with a U of T degree (in the same way that all top schools know that Princeton deflates, all law schools in Canada are familiar with U of T's stricter grading policy), especially since Canadian schools are also a little more "holistic" than American schools.

York is a perfectly respectable university, though it obviously is a step down from U of T and doesn't have the international reputation. Do you know what you plan to study in undergrad? If you already know your major then you should probably look at the differences between York and U of T for your specific interests.

Also: lawstudents.ca is a much better source than TLS for Canadian admissions.




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