Laptop Question from a 0L

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3|ink
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby 3|ink » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:52 am

I know a high-powered processor isn't necessary for word processing and the fact that I already have a high-performance desktop is another reason not to go apeshit with the specs. However, I'll likely end up using this laptop for work as well, and I'm designing a lot of spreadsheets these days with a lot of formulas (is that the correct plural form?). I experience significant delay with my excel spreadsheets from my work desktop, which has a one year old top of the line dual core CPU. However, I experience absolutely no delay with my excel spreadsheets from my home desktop, which has a three year old 4 core Q6600 (and is significantly overclocked). I'm sorry, but I simply cannot put up with excel's performance in less than four cores. It is unacceptable. When I enter data into cells, it takes a good 10 seconds to update at work. Fuck that. That's why I want four cores on my laptop.

I have to agree about the vaios. I wasn't going to say anything bad about them, but I wasn't too impressed with what I saw. I found a great selection on Newegg, but every laptop with a great CPU has a great video card as well. I don't want or need an expensive video card. I don't plan to game on this computer. I just want a decent CPU with decent Ram. I'm hoping to find a custom builder who can get me a high-end CPU without a high-end video card. I definitely don't need a freakin ATI 5570.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Dec 18, 2010 3:59 am

3|ink wrote:I know a high-powered processor isn't necessary for word processing and the fact that I already have a high-performance desktop is another reason not to go apeshit with the specs. However, I'll likely end up using this laptop for work as well, and I'm designing a lot of spreadsheets these days with a lot of formulas (is that the correct plural form?). I experience significant delay with my excel spreadsheets from my work desktop, which has a one year old top of the line dual core CPU. However, I experience absolutely no delay with my excel spreadsheets from my home desktop, which has a three year old 4 core Q6600 (and is significantly overclocked). I'm sorry, but I simply cannot put up with excel's performance in less than four cores. It is unacceptable. When I enter data into cells, it takes a good 10 seconds to update at work. Fuck that. That's why I want four cores on my laptop.

I have to agree about the vaios. I wasn't going to say anything bad about them, but I wasn't too impressed with what I saw. I found a great selection on Newegg, but every laptop with a great CPU has a great video card as well. I don't want or need an expensive video card. I don't plan to game on this computer. I just want a decent CPU with decent Ram. I'm hoping to find a custom builder who can get me a high-end CPU without a high-end video card. I definitely don't need a freakin ATI 5570.


Look into increasing the efficiency of your algorithms/formulas as it'll work out better than brute forcing it with more power, imo. Otherwise, you can probably pick up an iBuyPower for a good price with a basic gfx setup - though you will suffer in reliability due to problems with heat.

One thing is certain, nothing you get can be worse than a dell... mainstream, at least.

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hoopsguy6
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby hoopsguy6 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 4:25 pm

I don't think Intel has made Celeron CPUs in years, so I don't know why that was brought up. If you want a quad-core Intel, you're probably stuck with a graphics card.

This laptop seems like a decent deal if you must have quad-core:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product

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ResolutePear
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:15 pm

hoopsguy6 wrote:I don't think Intel has made Celeron CPUs in years, so I don't know why that was brought up. If you want a quad-core Intel, you're probably stuck with a graphics card.

This laptop seems like a decent deal if you must have quad-core:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product


Intel still makes Celeron processors. It's their economy-line.

All laptops are paired with "graphics cards." There is no "probably" about that fact.

I'll leave this thread here for no particular reason: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=134365

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homestyle28
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby homestyle28 » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:27 pm

What is wrong with you people? It's an internet forum and no one has pointed out that it's the HD that slows your system down? OP, by all means get 4 cores if you want, but save some scratch to get a Solid State Drive as your primary hard drive, you can always get a big external drive for media, but if you want snappiness get a SSD. Sheesh.

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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Dec 18, 2010 5:29 pm

homestyle28 wrote:What is wrong with you people? It's an internet forum and no one has pointed out that it's the HD that slows your system down? OP, by all means get 4 cores if you want, but save some scratch to get a Solid State Drive as your primary hard drive, you can always get a big external drive for media, but if you want snappiness get a SSD. Sheesh.


His problem isn't the transfer of huge amounts of data. (How huge can those excel sheets be?)

I'm saying, he doesn't need the speed he thinks he needs. I could be wrong - but unless current-gen 3D games are involved, chances are more than likely not.

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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby 3|ink » Sat Dec 18, 2010 6:27 pm

Heat is something I haven't considered. I haven't owned a laptop in a while and I forgot it's a serious issue. It isn't an issue for my desktop because I have 12 fans. Maybe I'll look into something a little less powerful. I want this thing to last all 3 years.

Oh, and I know I have to get a graphics card. I just didn't want some high-end card that would jack-up the price.

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kalvano
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby kalvano » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:20 am

There are like 156 threads on this.

Short answer - either get a Lenovo or a Mac.

Possibly an Asus. If I had to buy it again, I might go with an Asus over my Lenovo.


Done and done.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby ScottRiqui » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:23 am

ResolutePear wrote:
hoopsguy6 wrote:I don't think Intel has made Celeron CPUs in years, so I don't know why that was brought up. If you want a quad-core Intel, you're probably stuck with a graphics card.

This laptop seems like a decent deal if you must have quad-core:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product


Intel still makes Celeron processors. It's their economy-line.

All laptops are paired with "graphics cards." There is no "probably" about that fact.



It depends on what you mean by "graphics card" - with laptops, you have the choice of going with a model that has "integrated" graphics and saving some money. With these models, part of the system RAM is used for graphics, and their weaker graphics processors are really not suitable for any but the lightest 3D applications.

The other option is getting a laptop with "discrete graphics". These feature a higher-end graphics processor with its own dedicated video RAM. They're more suitable for 3D graphics, but they cost more.

Like hoopsguy said, any laptop with a quad-core processor is probably going to come with discrete graphics as well (along with the added cost).

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ResolutePear
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:31 am

ScottRiqui wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
hoopsguy6 wrote:I don't think Intel has made Celeron CPUs in years, so I don't know why that was brought up. If you want a quad-core Intel, you're probably stuck with a graphics card.

This laptop seems like a decent deal if you must have quad-core:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a ... -_-Product


Intel still makes Celeron processors. It's their economy-line.

All laptops are paired with "graphics cards." There is no "probably" about that fact.



It depends on what you mean by "graphics card" - with laptops, you have the choice of going with a model that has "integrated" graphics and saving some money. With these models, part of the system RAM is used for graphics, and their weaker graphics processors are really not suitable for any but the lightest 3D applications.

The other option is getting a laptop with "discrete graphics". These feature a higher-end graphics processor with its own dedicated video RAM. They're more suitable for 3D graphics, but they cost more.

Like hoopsguy said, any laptop with a quad-core processor is probably going to come with discrete graphics as well (along with the added cost).


They're all considered "graphics cards." Newer Nvidia GPU's are integrated onto the motherboard, but are discrete.

The point behind a graphics card is to interface with video - so chances are slim that a laptop wouldn't have one.

Aside from that, a lot of models direct from manufacturer have the ability to config an i7 without an "expensive" discrete graphics card. Really, how much are you expecting to save here?

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hoopsguy6
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby hoopsguy6 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 2:44 am

It's pretty obvious everyone was specifically talking about discrete gaming GPUs, but thank you Captain Corrector.

To the OP: Any quad-core i7 laptop you're going to get is going to be pretty expensive, but also much slower clocked than dual core CPUs due to heat restraints. I think the fastest quad core i7 is like 1.8ghz, vs. 2.8ghz for dual core i7s. I don't know how well Excel scales with multi-cores, but you might be better off overall with a faster dual core CPU for other applications.

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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Dec 19, 2010 3:43 am

hoopsguy6 wrote:It's pretty obvious everyone was specifically talking about discrete gaming GPUs, but thank you Captain Corrector.

To the OP: Any quad-core i7 laptop you're going to get is going to be pretty expensive, but also much slower clocked than dual core CPUs due to heat restraints. I think the fastest quad core i7 is like 1.8ghz, vs. 2.8ghz for dual core i7s. I don't know how well Excel scales with multi-cores, but you might be better off overall with a faster dual core CPU for other applications.


Captain Corrector? That's new. :lol:

Anyways, the reason for it being an important distinction is simple: systems with an actual, discreet *CARD* - as in.. not welded onto the motherboard has to do with the fact that those configurations are possibly available without a discreet card or a less expensive one, configured by the manufacturer.

To contribute to this thread: We're looking at reliability here so I'm going to suggest an i7-620UM - which has the lowest amount of heat that would need to be dissipated (TDP). It's a dual core. It does matter if you have 1 core or 32 cores, the OS schedules them in an efficient way. The only problem comes when you have one app seeking more than 1-core of power, but the newer processors come with hyperthreading so that's going to be a moot point with a 2-core.

I'd still be willing to wager an i5 would be enough, though... and would open your options to allow for aesthetics/protection.

lawschooliseasy
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby lawschooliseasy » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:17 am

Get the Acer 1830t. $500 on buy.com. Its small, battery lasts forever and its basically awesome. Keyboard isn't great (feel is a bit off, but it is full size), but it isn't terrible either and you get used to it.

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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:27 am

I just got a MacBook Pro 15" after my Dell Inspiron (a couple years old and very used) died. The battery life of the Mac is WAY better than that of the Dell I had, and although most of the classrooms where I am at have plug-ins, I have been in rooms that the powersource was not readily accessible so I was def glad to have the longer battery life. I hear Macs are hard to break/ last forever (compared to PCs), which, if true, is a big advantage, but I remain skeptical at this point. I thought my i5 MacBook would be much faster than the Dell DuoCore, but honestly that doesn't seem to be the case, so that has been disappointing (considering I paid for what I thought would make my computer noticeably faster). The cost in general of Macs is also a drawback. In addition, I have found my Mac to be fairly buggy (much like the iphones I have had), and in also somewhat of a pain to become familiar with after using a Windows based machine for a long time. I kinda wish I had gotten another Windows machine, but there were def things about Dell and the machine I had that I wasn't crazy about to say the least. One other drawback with Macs in terms of law school was that it was necessary to partition your machine (at cost I believe) in order to take finals on it. The company my school uses for the computerized exams (SoftTest) now has an updated version of the software that works fine on Macs so that is no longer an issue.

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James Bond
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby James Bond » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:38 am

kalvano wrote:There are like 156 threads on this.

Short answer - either get a Lenovo or a Mac.


Amen

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mcubberly
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby mcubberly » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:44 am

James Bond wrote:
kalvano wrote:There are like 156 threads on this.

Short answer - either get a Lenovo or a Mac.


Amen


+1

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hoopsguy6
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby hoopsguy6 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:35 pm

James Bond wrote:
kalvano wrote:There are like 156 threads on this.

Short answer - either get a Lenovo or a Mac.


Amen


Asus > all non-Thinkpad Lenovos.

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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby 3|ink » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:56 pm

kalvano wrote:There are like 156 threads on this.

Short answer - either get a Lenovo or a Mac.

Possibly an Asus. If I had to buy it again, I might go with an Asus over my Lenovo.


Done and done.


Except the question in the OP is about the number of power sockets in law school classrooms, not which comptuer I should get. How many threads are there on that topic? I couldn't find any. The search parameters were quite limited.

Anyway, since this thread has strayed significantly since the OP, here are my thoughts on the major competitors:

Dell = Overpriced, underpowered and unstable.
Mac = Don't get me fucking started on Steve Jobs and his piece of shit machines.
ASUS = They make fantastic motherboards. I've built 4 PCs using them and was quite satisfied. Their online selection beats the rest.
Sony = They look nice, but they are definitely overpriced.
Lenovo = Never even heard of these fuckers, but their online selection sucked.

TL;DR - Going with a medium-powered ASUS for stability, longevity and quality.

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James Bond
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby James Bond » Sun Dec 19, 2010 4:58 pm

3|ink wrote:Mac = Don't get me fucking started on Steve Jobs and his piece of shit machines.

Lenovo = Never even heard of these fuckers, but their online selection sucked.


Your opinion...doesn't sound very informed...

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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby 3|ink » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:02 pm

James Bond wrote:
3|ink wrote:Mac = Don't get me fucking started on Steve Jobs and his piece of shit machines.

Lenovo = Never even heard of these fuckers, but their online selection sucked.


Your opinion...doesn't sound very informed...


Can you run VBA on a Mac? That's crucial to me. The Mac keyboard is silly. All Mac OS's are absurd.

I've built several PCs and have never even heard of Lenovo. I suppose that is because they don't sell components; only whole PCs.

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homestyle28
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby homestyle28 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:12 pm

James Bond wrote:
3|ink wrote:Mac = Don't get me fucking started on Steve Jobs and his piece of shit machines.

Lenovo = Never even heard of these fuckers, but their online selection sucked.


Your opinion...doesn't sound very informed...


+1, how can you have built computers/claim tech cred and not know that lenovo bought the thinkpad line from IBM several years ago and that they make some of the top rated/reliable laptops? I've built a number of machines too, and know that that doesn't make me an expert on every kind of laptop.

OP if you're a PC kid, get a Lenovo Thinkpad, they're professional and reliable, and spring for an SSD, you'll thank yourself everytime you boot it up or launch an app.

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3|ink
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby 3|ink » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:19 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
James Bond wrote:
3|ink wrote:Mac = Don't get me fucking started on Steve Jobs and his piece of shit machines.

Lenovo = Never even heard of these fuckers, but their online selection sucked.


Your opinion...doesn't sound very informed...


+1, how can you have built computers/claim tech cred and not know that lenovo bought the thinkpad line from IBM several years ago and that they make some of the top rated/reliable laptops? I've built a number of machines too, and know that that doesn't make me an expert on every kind of laptop.

OP if you're a PC kid, get a Lenovo Thinkpad, they're professional and reliable, and spring for an SSD, you'll thank yourself everytime you boot it up or launch an app.


Because someone who builds computers on his own doesn't build laptops. I checked out their website last night and the selection was terrible.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:20 pm

3|ink wrote:
James Bond wrote:
3|ink wrote:Mac = Don't get me fucking started on Steve Jobs and his piece of shit machines.

Lenovo = Never even heard of these fuckers, but their online selection sucked.


Your opinion...doesn't sound very informed...


Can you run VBA on a Mac? That's crucial to me. The Mac keyboard is silly. All Mac OS's are absurd.

I've built several PCs and have never even heard of Lenovo. I suppose that is because they don't sell components; only whole PCs.


Lenovo = IBM.

They do sell components, but their target market are businesses. Thinkpads are the "business/government standard" when it comes to laptops, and if you look at their service contracts - that'll soon become apparent to you. THESE ARE MACHINES BUILT FOR MISSION-CRITICAL APPLICATIONS AND YOU PAY A PREMIUM FOR IT. This is why, whenever there is a situation that will come up which you cannot have a technical failure(1L finals), I recommend Thinkpads. There's no "like" about it.. they're plain-jane and look as "government" as can be. You're not going to law school to win a fashion show.

As for Macs, well - not being able to run VBA pretty much kills it as a choice unless you load it with bootcamp. Doesn't mean they're horrible - it just means you're paying a premium for the cache' of being a mac user.

As for building computers, then yes - you should know how to break down components in a laptop and make these choices on your own accord. Come on, soliciting advice on this stuff should be for n00bs.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby ResolutePear » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:22 pm

3|ink wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
James Bond wrote:
3|ink wrote:Mac = Don't get me fucking started on Steve Jobs and his piece of shit machines.

Lenovo = Never even heard of these fuckers, but their online selection sucked.


Your opinion...doesn't sound very informed...


+1, how can you have built computers/claim tech cred and not know that lenovo bought the thinkpad line from IBM several years ago and that they make some of the top rated/reliable laptops? I've built a number of machines too, and know that that doesn't make me an expert on every kind of laptop.

OP if you're a PC kid, get a Lenovo Thinkpad, they're professional and reliable, and spring for an SSD, you'll thank yourself everytime you boot it up or launch an app.


Because someone who builds computers on his own doesn't build laptops. I checked out their website last night and the selection was terrible.


I'm curious - what's so horrible about it? They have everything across the spectrum. Hell, they even have machines with Quadro FX graphics cards, in the event you're an engineer who needs to AutoCad in the field. If you're complaining about selection with IBM/Lenovo, I can't imagine what you'd expect. :roll:

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Re: Laptop Question from a 0L

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Dec 19, 2010 5:24 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
3|ink wrote:
James Bond wrote:
3|ink wrote:Mac = Don't get me fucking started on Steve Jobs and his piece of shit machines.

Lenovo = Never even heard of these fuckers, but their online selection sucked.


Your opinion...doesn't sound very informed...


Can you run VBA on a Mac? That's crucial to me. The Mac keyboard is silly. All Mac OS's are absurd.

I've built several PCs and have never even heard of Lenovo. I suppose that is because they don't sell components; only whole PCs.


Lenovo = IBM.

They do sell components, but their target market are businesses. Thinkpads are the "business/government standard" when it comes to laptops, and if you look at their service contracts - that'll soon become apparent to you. THESE ARE MACHINES BUILT FOR MISSION-CRITICAL APPLICATIONS AND YOU PAY A PREMIUM FOR IT. This is why, whenever there is a situation that will come up which you cannot have a technical failure(1L finals), I recommend Thinkpads. There's no "like" about it.. they're plain-jane and look as "government" as can be. You're not going to law school to win a fashion show.

As for Macs, well - not being able to run VBA pretty much kills it as a choice unless you load it with bootcamp. Doesn't mean they're horrible - it just means you're paying a premium for the cache' of being a mac user.

As for building computers, then yes - you should know how to break down components in a laptop and make these choices on your own accord. Come on, soliciting advice on this stuff should be for n00bs.


I had a late-90s Thinkpad and the thing was a tank. It kept running long after I wished it would die so I could justify an upgrade.




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