Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

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TLSNYC
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Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby TLSNYC » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:41 pm

I was wondering how NYU Law's top ranking is important to the university as a whole. For example, Columbia and Penn are amazing institutions all around, widely regarded as among the best in the world. For them, running a good law school is just something you do. On the other hand, NYU is fairly mediocre, at best, outside of its law school, business school, and a few other top programs, i.e. philosophy. Does the fact that its law school rock make the university any more likely to put extra resources behind it, i.e. take funds collected outside the law school and funnel them there? Would this differ at all from Columbia or Penn which may not be as inclined towards their respective law schools?

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applepiecrust
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby applepiecrust » Thu Dec 16, 2010 12:50 pm

I've wondered about this. I've also wondered (and this might just be my prestige-whore ways), if the overall prestige of the university affects the law school's employment prospects at all (probably not, but I am annoyed with non-law people who don't understand Michigan and UVA > Cornell and Georgetown, for instance, lol).

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vamedic03
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby vamedic03 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:52 pm

applepiecrust wrote:I've wondered about this. I've also wondered (and this might just be my prestige-whore ways), if the overall prestige of the university affects the law school's employment prospects at all (probably not, but I am annoyed with non-law people who don't understand Michigan and UVA > Cornell and Georgetown, for instance, lol).


Um, no. Legal employers are not dumb and they don't care about the law school's associated undergrad's prestige.

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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby Renzo » Thu Dec 16, 2010 3:57 pm

vamedic03 wrote:
applepiecrust wrote:I've wondered about this. I've also wondered (and this might just be my prestige-whore ways), if the overall prestige of the university affects the law school's employment prospects at all (probably not, but I am annoyed with non-law people who don't understand Michigan and UVA > Cornell and Georgetown, for instance, lol).


Um, no. Legal employers are not dumb and they don't care about the law school's associated undergrad's prestige.

True. But to the OP's question, I feel like NYU really does go out of their way to cater to the Law and B-schools. There might be something to the idea of a "flagship" status

ohyouknow
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby ohyouknow » Thu Dec 16, 2010 4:06 pm

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Last edited by ohyouknow on Thu Feb 17, 2011 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sophie316
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby sophie316 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:32 pm

I think there is something to both the law school as flagship within the school and with the school being aware that it can't rest on the university's name. I always get the sense NYU law tries really hard, but then again I am biased.

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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby Renzo » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:41 pm

ohyouknow wrote:This doesn't answer OP's question, but my parents (harvard business grads) think that applying to NYU ED would be the dumbest move ever. They assume that NYU Law will look mediocre to employers. No matter how much I try to convince them otherwise, they retain their initial bias against it...I would hope that legal employers know better, though.

Legal employers do know better. But you parents' bias isn't that unusual--it's one of the reasons I picked NYU over CLS. I wanted to associate myself with the school that wasn't associated with Ivy League snobbery.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:45 pm

TLSNYC wrote:I was wondering how NYU Law's top ranking is important to the university as a whole. For example, Columbia and Penn are amazing institutions all around, widely regarded as among the best in the world. For them, running a good law school is just something you do. On the other hand, NYU is fairly mediocre, at best, outside of its law school, business school, and a few other top programs, i.e. philosophy. Does the fact that its law school rock make the university any more likely to put extra resources behind it, i.e. take funds collected outside the law school and funnel them there? Would this differ at all from Columbia or Penn which may not be as inclined towards their respective law schools?


Blatant anti-Chicago trolling.

TLSNYC
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby TLSNYC » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:53 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
TLSNYC wrote:I was wondering how NYU Law's top ranking is important to the university as a whole. For example, Columbia and Penn are amazing institutions all around, widely regarded as among the best in the world. For them, running a good law school is just something you do. On the other hand, NYU is fairly mediocre, at best, outside of its law school, business school, and a few other top programs, i.e. philosophy. Does the fact that its law school rock make the university any more likely to put extra resources behind it, i.e. take funds collected outside the law school and funnel them there? Would this differ at all from Columbia or Penn which may not be as inclined towards their respective law schools?


Blatant anti-Chicago trolling.


Fair enough -- I guess Chicago should be mentioned alongside Penn & Columbia as a world-renowned institution, but I am more interested in the first three because of my desire to practice in NYC.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby megaTTTron » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:54 pm

TLSNYC wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
TLSNYC wrote:I was wondering how NYU Law's top ranking is important to the university as a whole. For example, Columbia and Penn are amazing institutions all around, widely regarded as among the best in the world. For them, running a good law school is just something you do. On the other hand, NYU is fairly mediocre, at best, outside of its law school, business school, and a few other top programs, i.e. philosophy. Does the fact that its law school rock make the university any more likely to put extra resources behind it, i.e. take funds collected outside the law school and funnel them there? Would this differ at all from Columbia or Penn which may not be as inclined towards their respective law schools?


Blatant anti-Chicago trolling.


Fair enough -- I guess Chicago should be mentioned alongside Penn & Columbia as a world-renowned institution, but I am more interested in the first three because of my desire to practice in NYC.


Haha. I'm just kidding.

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BrownBears09
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby BrownBears09 » Thu Dec 16, 2010 10:56 pm

TLSNYC wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
TLSNYC wrote:I was wondering how NYU Law's top ranking is important to the university as a whole. For example, Columbia and Penn are amazing institutions all around, widely regarded as among the best in the world. For them, running a good law school is just something you do. On the other hand, NYU is fairly mediocre, at best, outside of its law school, business school, and a few other top programs, i.e. philosophy. Does the fact that its law school rock make the university any more likely to put extra resources behind it, i.e. take funds collected outside the law school and funnel them there? Would this differ at all from Columbia or Penn which may not be as inclined towards their respective law schools?


Blatant anti-Chicago trolling.


Fair enough -- I guess Chicago should be mentioned alongside Penn & Columbia as a world-renowned institution, but I am more interested in the first three because of my desire to practice in NYC.


A double Ivy looks pretty good on a resume.

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clintonius
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby clintonius » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:09 pm

NYU does indeed pour a lot of resources into the law school, and I agree that there's something to the idea that the flagship status is behind that. It also doesn't hurt that the current president of the university used to be the law school dean.

TLSNYC
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby TLSNYC » Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:09 pm

clintonius wrote:NYU does indeed pour a lot of resources into the law school, and I agree that there's something to the idea that the flagship status is behind that. It also doesn't hurt that the current president of the university used to be the law school dean.


Oh, wow...i didn't know about the last part! Thanks so much for all the helpful posts..I'm starting like to NYU more and more by the day!

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NorCalBruin
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby NorCalBruin » Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:50 am

I think the prestige of the undergrad helps the prestige of the law school, but not the other way around. I would be surprised if places like NYU were trying to use their law school as a flagship to boost the prestige of the university as whole.

It's hard to really do anything more than speculate, because most great law schools are at great undergrads, and vice versa, but you have people on here joke that if Princeton were to open up a law school it would be ranked in the top 5. But of course, not because it would be a good law school, but because it's f*ing princeton.

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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby T6Hopeful » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:40 am

NorCalBruin wrote:I think the prestige of the undergrad helps the prestige of the law school, but not the other way around. I would be surprised if places like NYU were trying to use their law school as a flagship to boost the prestige of the university as whole.

It's hard to really do anything more than speculate, because most great law schools are at great undergrads, and vice versa, but you have people on here joke that if Princeton were to open up a law school it would be ranked in the top 5. But of course, not because it would be a good law school, but because it's f*ing princeton.

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Veyron
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby Veyron » Wed Dec 22, 2010 3:51 am

applepiecrust wrote:I've wondered about this. I've also wondered (and this might just be my prestige-whore ways), if the overall prestige of the university affects the law school's employment prospects at all (probably not, but I am annoyed with non-law people who don't understand Michigan and UVA > Cornell and Georgetown, for instance, lol).


It does if you ever want to work outside of law or in a legal field where you work with with non-lawers frequently frequently/attempt to them as clients. I'd still say that NYU has an advantage in NY since everyone there knows its quality and the alums of NYU law are a worthy bunch, but in other parts of the country, the "brand" name definately counts. I know I've already realized some benefits from it. Also having access to the better alumni network is a big leg up. Schools like Penn and Columbia tend to have a more far-flung alumni network and you can be pretty confident that, in any city with a club, those are going to be good people to associate with career-wise.

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apollo13
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby apollo13 » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:13 pm

applepiecrust wrote:I've wondered about this. I've also wondered (and this might just be my prestige-whore ways), if the overall prestige of the university affects the law school's employment prospects at all (probably not, but I am annoyed with non-law people who don't understand Michigan and UVA > Cornell and Georgetown, for instance, lol).


I totally agree with the second segment. I visited BU law school when I visited my friends place at BU. My friends were asking my why I was visiting the school because its not that even good. I kept on telling him that it places in Top25, and he would tell me it probably sucks... man, non-law people should just drink some koo-laid and know how to shut the fuck up.

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JG Hall
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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby JG Hall » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:37 pm

NYU diverts money to NYU Law because of its standing relative to the rest of of university. Columbia sees the Law School (and the B School) as money makers for the university as a whole, so money is directed away from the law school to the general university endowment. (But I think tuition/fees only cover 63% of the cost of attendance, so make of that what you will.) So yeah, NYU puts more effort into making their law school good because that's what they've got going for them. CLS needs a separate endowment. Effing shit.

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Re: Flagship status -- relevant? NYU, CLS, Penn?

Postby HamDel » Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:40 pm

A) I don't think it's something to worry about, NYU is a good law school.

B) I think you're shortchanging the school in general. I've noticed that NYU and Berkeley always get screwed in those rankings even though they kick the crap out of a lot of other schools that are ranked higher by US News in things that actually matter like research output and job prospects. US News takes into account crap like square feet per student and alumni donation percentages, which are biased against urban schools and state schools.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University ... y#Rankings

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyu#Rankings




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