Mac or PC?

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notanumber
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby notanumber » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:42 pm

bk1 wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:I wasn't really trying to claim it was better--there might be better, but I have no complaints about the quality of it. Apple is automatic one year warranty, and you can purchase an additional two years of coverage (which everyone does unless they're stupid). I have a friend who goes to college with me and Apple paid for her shipping when her computer broke under the warranty. It may not be earth shattering as fanboys would have you believe, but it's at least as good as the better PC warranties.


Purchasing 2 more years of coverage is not necessarily actually cost effective (I'd actually bet on average the consumer is losing money).

So AppleCare is just as good as something like SquareTrade or the warranty from a reputable PC maker? Then it is even more annoying that people bring it up as if it were Apple's gift to mankind. :?


This is the case with all extended warranties (and with the insurance industry in general). I always buy extended warranties for laptops because I know that I use them aggressively, and I've more than made the money back in repairs, but if you're more responsible with your stuff, they're usually a poor bet.

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Naked Dude
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby Naked Dude » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:44 pm

bk1 wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:I wasn't really trying to claim it was better--there might be better, but I have no complaints about the quality of it. Apple is automatic one year warranty, and you can purchase an additional two years of coverage (which everyone does unless they're stupid). I have a friend who goes to college with me and Apple paid for her shipping when her computer broke under the warranty. It may not be earth shattering as fanboys would have you believe, but it's at least as good as the better PC warranties.


Purchasing 2 more years of coverage is not necessarily actually cost effective (I'd actually bet on average the consumer is losing money).

So AppleCare is just as good as something like SquareTrade or the warranty from a reputable PC maker? Then it is even more annoying that people bring it up as if it were Apple's gift to mankind. :?


Most extended warranties are not cost-effective, yes. But I hardly think a 1 year warranty on a $2000+ laptop is sufficient, just because the costs of repair without a warranty are obscene. When I buy a computer I expect to use it at least 3 years, hopefully 4, before it's obsolete/craps out.

I don't know if AppleCare is as good as PC warranties, I'm just a student/computer user, not a Gizmodo writer. It's better than the PC warranties I've had with HP and Dell.

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DeeCee
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby DeeCee » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:44 pm

bk1 wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:I wasn't really trying to claim it was better--there might be better, but I have no complaints about the quality of it. Apple is automatic one year warranty, and you can purchase an additional two years of coverage (which everyone does unless they're stupid). I have a friend who goes to college with me and Apple paid for her shipping when her computer broke under the warranty. It may not be earth shattering as fanboys would have you believe, but it's at least as good as the better PC warranties.


Purchasing 2 more years of coverage is not necessarily actually cost effective (I'd actually bet on average the consumer is losing money).

So AppleCare is just as good as something like SquareTrade or the warranty from a reputable PC maker? Then it is even more annoying that people bring it up as if it were Apple's gift to mankind. :?


The average consumer is definitely losing money on this. However, my SO bought a laptop in 2004 (top of the line at the time and almost $3000). He bought 2 years warranty. Lots of things had to be replaced, and when the next two years came around, he bought another 2 year warranty. More things were replaced. Now we're in 2011 and he still has that damn laptop, and just about the whole thing has been replaced, part by part, and Dell refuses to cover it through warranty since 2008 or 2009. But in that time, the computer was upgraded every time something broke, and he can still use it. I've went through a couple laptops since then, and he has a new computer now, but he still takes the old laptop on trips and fiddles around with it for fun. It's the longest lasting laptop I think I've ever seen.

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Naked Dude
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby Naked Dude » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:46 pm

I don't think I buy warranties on anything but my laptops. The wear and tear mine go through, I would be stupid not to. Considering the hard drive replacements and other things I've had, the warranty has more than paid for itself on my HP. Hard drives, to name just one computer component, fail all the time. If you drag your laptop around everywhere, you'd be stupid not to have your laptop covered for at least 3 years.

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:49 pm

Yes there are some cases where insurance is cost effective and for people who are really hard on their machines it is easily justifiable beforehand. However bringing up anecdotes means nothing.

Plus, most people aren't buying 2000 laptops anymore, they're buying 500-1500 (and that latter number is stretching it even for a Mac). If a warranty isn't cost effective, why would you buy it even if for some irrational reason you feel that 1 year is not sufficient? And even if you are in the minority whose computer breaks quickly, that doesn't mean you should have bought a warranty considering you could have put that money towards a new computer (or the repair) and the fact that a comparably equipped machine to the one you bought 1-2+ years ago is probably far cheaper today than it was when you bought it.

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DeeCee
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby DeeCee » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:51 pm

bk1 wrote:Yes there are some cases where insurance is cost effective and for people who are really hard on their machines it is easily justifiable beforehand. However bringing up anecdotes means nothing.

Plus, most people aren't buying 2000 laptops anymore, they're buying 500-1500 (and that latter number is stretching it even for a Mac). If a warranty isn't cost effective, why would you buy it even if for some irrational reason you feel that 1 year is not sufficient? And even if you are in the minority whose computer breaks quickly, that doesn't mean you should have bought a warranty considering you could have put that money towards a new computer (or the repair) and the fact that a comparably equipped machine to the one you bought 1-2+ years ago is probably far cheaper today than it was when you bought it.


That why I said for the average customer, they are definitely losing money on this. Obviously my SO lucked out, I don't think anyone really owns a laptop from 2004 anymore.

I was more making the point that a warranty is generally helpful, though not an extremely long warranty, except in rare instances.

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:52 pm

Naked Dude wrote:If you drag your laptop around everywhere, you'd be stupid not to have your laptop covered for at least 3 years.


I drag my laptop everywhere and the warranty I bought didn't actually make itself worthwhile until the 4th year (ironically Dell had really dumb pricing on their Gold Tech Support in 2006 before they realized how much they were ripping themselves off).

Laptops are cheap these days and getting cheaper very quickly. To say that you should pay an extra 100-200 bucks to for coverage in years 2 and 3 is probably not cost effective on the whole. Even for someone who uses it everyday and lugs it to and from class, if you're not clumsy I bet that it still isn't cost effective for this kind of person to buy an extended warranty.

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:53 pm

DeeCee wrote:I was more making the point that a warranty is generally helpful, though not an extremely long warranty, except in rare instances.


All warranties if they are good are helpful because of convenience. But generally they are not cost effective, even for just an extra year or two past the 1 year manufacturer's warranty.

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Naked Dude
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby Naked Dude » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:56 pm

bk1 wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:If you drag your laptop around everywhere, you'd be stupid not to have your laptop covered for at least 3 years.


I drag my laptop everywhere and the warranty I bought didn't actually make itself worthwhile until the 4th year (ironically Dell had really dumb pricing on their Gold Tech Support in 2006 before they realized how much they were ripping themselves off).

Laptops are cheap these days and getting cheaper very quickly. To say that you should pay an extra 100-200 bucks to for coverage in years 2 and 3 is probably not cost effective on the whole. Even for someone who uses it everyday and lugs it to and from class, if you're not clumsy I bet that it still isn't cost effective for this kind of person to buy an extended warranty.


Depends on the investment you're making. If I buy a new laptop for $700, I'm probably not going to want to pay too much for an extended warranty. If it craps out or costs too much to fix after two years, no big deal. If you pay $2500 for a MacBook Pro, you're going to want to make sure you're covered for a few years. As it is, with the last 3 laptops I have had, I've had at least one component fail (hard drive, etc) that would have cost at least $200 to fix. Extended warranties are almost always for suckers, but not with my laptops, at least in my experience.

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Naked Dude
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby Naked Dude » Mon Apr 18, 2011 1:59 pm

I think the 100-200 is worth it if you're spending more than $1000 dollars (or maybe your range is 1500 or 2000, whatever). I plan to keep my laptops around 3 years, so I'm paying around 50-100 a year after the first year as insurance against my chassis cracking/hard drive failing/motherboard crapping out/whatever. My extended warranty on my HP expired a year ago (going on my 4th year). I'm basically just using it until it craps out at this point, then buying a new one. I could have purchased an extra year last year, but then it definitely would not have been worth it.

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:01 pm

Naked Dude wrote:Depends on the investment you're making. If I buy a new laptop for $700, I'm probably not going to want to pay too much for an extended warranty. If it craps out or costs too much to fix after two years, no big deal. If you pay $2500 for a MacBook Pro, you're going to want to make sure you're covered for a few years. As it is, with the last 3 laptops I have had, I've had at least one component fail (hard drive, etc) that would have cost at least $200 to fix. Extended warranties are almost always for suckers, but not with my laptops, at least in my experience.


I agree with this. Just looking at SquareTrade really confirms that if the product costs that much more it is definitely more beneficial as a 3 year warranty for a 2500 laptop costs 300 whereas for a 700 laptop costs 130.

Then again, most people aren't paying that much for laptops anymore, which is why I referenced 500-1500.

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DeeCee
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby DeeCee » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:02 pm

I liked this thread better when it was a pissing match for Mac vs PC, instead of extended warranties :lol:

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:03 pm

Naked Dude wrote:I think the 100-200 is worth it if you're spending more than $1000 dollars (or maybe your range is 1500 or 2000, whatever). I plan to keep my laptops around 3 years, so I'm paying around 50-100 a year after the first year as insurance against my chassis cracking/hard drive failing/motherboard crapping out/whatever. My extended warranty on my HP expired a year ago (going on my 4th year). I'm basically just using it until it craps out at this point, then buying a new one. I could have purchased an extra year last year, but then it definitely would not have been worth it.


3 year warranties on average aren't worth it, but they aren't a horrible deal. I'm being pretty nitpicky when I say they are a bad investment (because it really isn't that large a bad investment). But 4 year warranties are generally atrociously expensive because manufacturers know that this is when the most laptops break (which is why I was lucky and got a 4 year from Dell for absurdly cheap and when my computer broke down in the 4th year they gave me a brand new replacement laptop for free because they couldn't fix my old one).

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JenDarby
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby JenDarby » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:06 pm

I love my Lenovo T410S.

Things I love about it: SSD, fingerprint reader, keyboard, thinness and lightness, ac port (plug in a Lenovo, you will understand), matte screen, steel hinges, roll cage, keyboard drains, excellent three year warranty, trackpoint, textured keypad, ease of personally upgrading hardware, etc.

I am not arguing against Macs, just giving some of the reasons I love my Lenovo. I also find my laptop more attractive than a Mac, which I am sure most people will disagree with.
Last edited by JenDarby on Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Naked Dude
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby Naked Dude » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:11 pm

bk1 wrote:
Naked Dude wrote:I think the 100-200 is worth it if you're spending more than $1000 dollars (or maybe your range is 1500 or 2000, whatever). I plan to keep my laptops around 3 years, so I'm paying around 50-100 a year after the first year as insurance against my chassis cracking/hard drive failing/motherboard crapping out/whatever. My extended warranty on my HP expired a year ago (going on my 4th year). I'm basically just using it until it craps out at this point, then buying a new one. I could have purchased an extra year last year, but then it definitely would not have been worth it.


3 year warranties on average aren't worth it, but they aren't a horrible deal. I'm being pretty nitpicky when I say they are a bad investment (because it really isn't that large a bad investment). But 4 year warranties are generally atrociously expensive because manufacturers know that this is when the most laptops break (which is why I was lucky and got a 4 year from Dell for absurdly cheap and when my computer broke down in the 4th year they gave me a brand new replacement laptop for free because they couldn't fix my old one).


No, I never get 4 year warranties. I just like being covered for the time period I expect to use the laptop. I know that some people have more luck with their computers, but the thought of paying out of pocket for repairs on even a low end Macbook or a high end laptop gives me gas.

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:13 pm

Naked Dude wrote:No, I never get 4 year warranties. I just like being covered for the time period I expect to use the laptop. I know that some people have more luck with their computers, but the thought of paying out of pocket for repairs on even a low end Macbook or a high end laptop gives me gas.


It's not about luck or what you prefer, it's that on average the return rate on a 2-3 year extended warranty isn't going to justify its cost. But as I said above, it's not a horrid investment and they are pretty cheap so I really am quibbling about a few dollars at the margin.

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:14 pm

JenDarby wrote:fingerprint reader


My new laptop has one of these and I just can't get myself to even try it. It just seems so weird.

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JenDarby
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby JenDarby » Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:16 pm

bk1 wrote:
JenDarby wrote:fingerprint reader


My new laptop has one of these and I just can't get myself to even try it. It just seems so weird.

It saves me precious seconds each time I unlock my computer... :D It's a bit of a novelty, and clearly not necessary, but can be convenient.

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sgtgrumbles
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby sgtgrumbles » Tue Apr 19, 2011 11:43 am

I have a variation of the original question. I currently have an iMac desktop from the generation immediately preceding the current one. I will obviously need a laptop for law school. I've only owned Macs, but I use a PC at work and while I dislike the interface and OS, I know my way around them. Since I'll probably only use my laptop for notetaking and exams, is there any big downside to buying a cheap PC laptop for law school? I don't know much about the various notetaking programs, but would I have compatibility issues if I wanted to access those documents on both my PC laptop and Mac desktop? My inclination is to buy a Mac laptop because I know the OS so much better, but if there are no great obstacles to using both OSes for the same law school activities I might just buy a cheap PC laptop instead.

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haus
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby haus » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:46 pm

sgtgrumbles wrote:I have a variation of the original question. I currently have an iMac desktop from the generation immediately preceding the current one. I will obviously need a laptop for law school. I've only owned Macs, but I use a PC at work and while I dislike the interface and OS, I know my way around them. Since I'll probably only use my laptop for notetaking and exams, is there any big downside to buying a cheap PC laptop for law school? I don't know much about the various notetaking programs, but would I have compatibility issues if I wanted to access those documents on both my PC laptop and Mac desktop? My inclination is to buy a Mac laptop because I know the OS so much better, but if there are no great obstacles to using both OSes for the same law school activities I might just buy a cheap PC laptop instead.


In large part this is going to depend on what you want to use for notetaking software. If you opt to take notes with a tool that writes to a format that is interchangeable. If you opt to use something that writes to flat text or .doc format then you will likely have no problems.

Many MS users seem to like OneNote, this is an app that I have not used, but I do not believe the default file format has a native reader on Mac. You could of course run VM instance of Windows on your iMac, but I suspect that this would be a pain in the arse. If you can find a text editor that you feel comfortable in taking notes with on a cheap PC, then you will likely be in good shape as flat text can go anywhere, be it MS, Mac, Linux, Unix...

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ahduth
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby ahduth » Tue Apr 19, 2011 6:30 pm

bk1 wrote:
cornellbeez wrote:I just don't see why liberal arts majors going to law school should spend 2k on a freaking mac when all you need is office and the internet.


Cause it makes them feel cool. Why do people drink Grey Goose rather than Papov and buy name brand clothes rather than knockoffs?


I really, REALLY take exception to this. Have you ever had a Papov hangover? That stuff is like gasoline. I'm not saying you need to be hitting Grey Goose but shit...

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Naked Dude
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby Naked Dude » Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:57 pm

Yeah, I mean I really think you have to be a cheapass not to get a warranty for your computer. Unless you get an extremely inexpensive computer (in which case, see previous sentence).

The logic is simple: manufacturer's warranties, which come automatically when you purchase a product, generally don't cover the amount of time you expect to use a product (About 1 year). When I purchase something like a Macbook, or a computer near its price, I expect to use it 3-4 years. The chances of a component of your computer needing repair within that time frame are high. If you've had multiple laptops and never needed repairs you're either: a liar, never use it, or the luckiest person in the world (buy a lottery ticket).

So, continuing in that vein, if a component like my hard drive fails (happens all the time, a very common failure that has little to do with whether it's Apple, HP, etc.) after my computer warranty expires, that's $200 in the hole minimum, if I repair it myself (doable). You need to replace a logic board, that's what, $400 minimum, beyond the cost of any warranty. When you have a computer on the expensive side, the plan of a high repair cost meaning you just buy a new computer instead isn't really something you want to consider.

On the average, a single moderately expensive component failure is about the cost of an extended warranty (in my case a new hard drive). It happened that my warranty cost $30 more than my new hard drive. I also had a broken fan, but even if I didn't, but I'm not so cheap that $30 over 4 years is a big deal for peace of mind.

I mean shit, I clip coupons but I'm not that cheap...

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:03 pm

Naked Dude wrote:Yeah, I mean I really think you have to be a cheapass not to get a warranty for your computer. Unless you get an extremely inexpensive computer (in which case, see previous sentence).


What is inexpensive? Under 800 or so? Because students don't really need to be spending more than 500-700 on a laptop these days. I'm kind of appalled that the couple grand I dropped on one a few years ago.

And I'm not saying it has anything to do with being cheap. I'm saying it has to do with a rational cost/benefit analysis. Yes, there will be instances where a warranty will have saved you many. Maybe it is a lot of instances, but my whole point was that on average it isn't going to save you money. To reiterate though: the cost difference isn't a lot so I don't see something wrong with getting a warranty, but to recommend that everybody should get a warranty? That would be going too far.

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bk1
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby bk1 » Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:03 pm

ahduth wrote:
bk1 wrote:
cornellbeez wrote:I just don't see why liberal arts majors going to law school should spend 2k on a freaking mac when all you need is office and the internet.


Cause it makes them feel cool. Why do people drink Grey Goose rather than Papov and buy name brand clothes rather than knockoffs?


I really, REALLY take exception to this. Have you ever had a Papov hangover? That stuff is like gasoline. I'm not saying you need to be hitting Grey Goose but shit...

:lol:

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westinghouse60
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Re: Mac or PC?

Postby westinghouse60 » Thu Apr 21, 2011 5:09 am

One time I was forced to use a Mac. I was trying to adjust the text sizes of various parts of a document, but rather than being able to enter a numerical value for size, I could only press a button to make text bigger or smaller than it currently was. Being the OCD freak that I am, I probably spent 30 minutes trying to eyeball different headings and make sure they were the same size.

This was a few years ago. Maybe Apple changed it this since then or maybe I just couldn't figure out how to use it correctly in the first place, but I vowed never to touch a Mac again.

Completely irrelevant to the current question, I know.




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