Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)

Is law school worth sticker to you?

Yes
297
60%
No
194
40%
 
Total votes: 491

blsingindisguise
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby blsingindisguise » Sat Jun 25, 2011 2:22 pm

Z3RO wrote:
Paying sticker and making 160k/year = 5,428 a month after tax/loans
Sticker making 120k/year = 4,032 a month after tax/loans (double what I currently make)
Sticker making 85k/year = 2,000 a month after tax/loans (where I am now)

Now, even if you get a full scholly, you have to pay cost-of-living loans. I'm gonna assume that these will total about 100k all told. I'm sure there are places where you can get by on much less, but this is my baseline. Now, the thing to keep in mind is that when you're taking a scholly at the mid T1, you are all but shut-out of the 100k+ jobs.


There's no reason you need to take out $100k in COL loans even in an expensive city. That's the equivalent of having $33K a year in after-tax dollars to live on. You really don't need that much as a student, especially if you also get reduced-cost student housing.

firemed
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby firemed » Sat Jun 25, 2011 6:01 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:There's no reason you need to take out $100k in COL loans even in an expensive city. That's the equivalent of having $33K a year in after-tax dollars to live on. You really don't need that much as a student, especially if you also get reduced-cost student housing.


True for singles... not true if you have family with you. Hell, 33K doesn't even start to touch paying for a family of four in NYC, for instance.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby blsingindisguise » Sat Jun 25, 2011 10:33 pm

firemed wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:There's no reason you need to take out $100k in COL loans even in an expensive city. That's the equivalent of having $33K a year in after-tax dollars to live on. You really don't need that much as a student, especially if you also get reduced-cost student housing.


True for singles... not true if you have family with you. Hell, 33K doesn't even start to touch paying for a family of four in NYC, for instance.


Sure, but going back to school full-time in NYC with a family of four and a non-working spouse would be a bit insane imo, with or without scholarship.

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TheKingintheNorth
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby TheKingintheNorth » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:00 am

blsingindisguise wrote:
firemed wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:There's no reason you need to take out $100k in COL loans even in an expensive city. That's the equivalent of having $33K a year in after-tax dollars to live on. You really don't need that much as a student, especially if you also get reduced-cost student housing.


True for singles... not true if you have family with you. Hell, 33K doesn't even start to touch paying for a family of four in NYC, for instance.


Sure, but going back to school full-time in NYC with a family of four and a non-working spouse would be a bit insane imo, with or without scholarship.


Yeah especially as the sole bread-winner. It's the 21st century, so this kind of situation really shouldn't be around barring extremely special circumstances.



As for the OP's question: Overwhelmingly no. I had no plan to go to Law School and took the LSAT on a whim. I always enjoyed the law, but I was well aware of the job market and lifestyle of the lawyers actually making money. Then I got a 174 and got into a T6 law school with an unconditional 15k a year scholly and a good LRAP/PI summer funding in my favorite city/region.

Still, that's really the minimum I would need to go to law school. I wouldn't go if I only got into Cornell or Michigan, and even sticker at NYU would be a bust for me. And this IS with a true passion for the study and practice of the law. 200k is a fuckton of money.

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bk1
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby bk1 » Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:33 am

TheKingintheNorth wrote:As for the OP's question: Overwhelmingly no. I had no plan to go to Law School and took the LSAT on a whim. I always enjoyed the law, but I was well aware of the job market and lifestyle of the lawyers actually making money. Then I got a 174 and got into a T6 law school with an unconditional 15k a year scholly and a good LRAP/PI summer funding in my favorite city/region.


So 225k is too much but 180k is not? To me the difference there is pretty marginal.

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Lawquacious
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby Lawquacious » Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:08 am

For me I think T18 and maybe T20ish is worth sticker. This is from the perspective of someone on more than half-scholly at a lower T1 school (40-50 ranked) who is thinking of transferring up if I get any transfer acceptances. Thus far I haven't applied to any schools currently ranked below #20, and I am really doubting whether #19 and #20 would be worth it for me (I would at least only be paying sticker for 2 years, but still, I would be taking on an additional 50k+ in debt).

firemed
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby firemed » Sun Jun 26, 2011 10:48 am

blsingindisguise wrote:
firemed wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:There's no reason you need to take out $100k in COL loans even in an expensive city. That's the equivalent of having $33K a year in after-tax dollars to live on. You really don't need that much as a student, especially if you also get reduced-cost student housing.


True for singles... not true if you have family with you. Hell, 33K doesn't even start to touch paying for a family of four in NYC, for instance.


Sure, but going back to school full-time in NYC with a family of four and a non-working spouse would be a bit insane imo, with or without scholarship.


Yeah... which is exactly why I turned down a 80+% scholly in NYC. COL alone made it twice the cost of most of my other options despite the scholly.


But my point was that, in general, the advice re: needing 33K, was limited more to singles than couples.

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downing
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby downing » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:12 am

No... Well sort of.
I received tuition remission so I pay the in-state price instead of out of state. Total COA should be around 66,000 after 3 years, and the city I'm going to live in isn't particularly expensive (or exciting).

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smokeylarue
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby smokeylarue » Mon Jul 04, 2011 2:50 am

Is it really true most people who get in BigLaw eventually take a paycut after 4-5 years? What do these lawyers end up salary wise when they retire?

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NiccoloA
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby NiccoloA » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:02 pm

I wouldn't pay sticker for anything that isn't Top 6


But I think that I, and a lot of others, are put in sticky situation. I'm graduating UG with debt, more than I wanted to when the economy took its toll on my parents. If I were to graduate with my BA and just stick with that, I'd be in debt with as much as my median starting salary would probably give me in a career field that I don't really want to go through anymore.


A lot of people here say that law school isn't worth heavy amounts of debt, but for someone that can increase his starting salary by $25 - 65k with the opportunity to make a lot more over the course of his lifetime. The extra debt begins to go down in severity, especially if being a lawyer is something you really want to do. It's a tricky balance, I honestly don't think that I'd be particularly good at anything else, but I have to balance that with debt aversion.

Altogether I don't want to pay more than $80k for law school, unless I'm going to Stanford.

HeavenWood
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:03 pm

NiccoloA wrote:I wouldn't pay sticker for anything that isn't Top 6


But I think that I, and a lot of others, are put in sticky situation. I'm graduating UG with debt, more than I wanted to when the economy took its toll on my parents. If I were to graduate with my BA and just stick with that, I'd be in debt with as much as my median starting salary would probably give me in a career field that I don't really want to go through anymore.


A lot of people here say that law school isn't worth heavy amounts of debt, but for someone that can increase his starting salary by $25 - 65k with the opportunity to make a lot more over the course of his lifetime. The extra debt begins to go down in severity, especially if being a lawyer is something you really want to do. It's a tricky balance, I honestly don't think that I'd be particularly good at anything else, but I have to balance that with debt aversion.

Altogether I don't want to pay more than $80k for law school, unless I'm going to Stanford.


So 90k for MVPDN = out of the question, but 60k for T30 = golden?

WSJ_Law
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby WSJ_Law » Wed Jul 27, 2011 6:09 pm

NiccoloA wrote:I wouldn't pay sticker for anything that isn't Top 6


+1

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ndirish2010
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:21 pm

T10 is the absolute lowest I would go for sticker.

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NiccoloA
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby NiccoloA » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:56 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:I wouldn't pay sticker for anything that isn't Top 6


But I think that I, and a lot of others, are put in sticky situation. I'm graduating UG with debt, more than I wanted to when the economy took its toll on my parents. If I were to graduate with my BA and just stick with that, I'd be in debt with as much as my median starting salary would probably give me in a career field that I don't really want to go through anymore.


A lot of people here say that law school isn't worth heavy amounts of debt, but for someone that can increase his starting salary by $25 - 65k with the opportunity to make a lot more over the course of his lifetime. The extra debt begins to go down in severity, especially if being a lawyer is something you really want to do. It's a tricky balance, I honestly don't think that I'd be particularly good at anything else, but I have to balance that with debt aversion.

Altogether I don't want to pay more than $80k for law school, unless I'm going to Stanford.


So 90k for MVPDN = out of the question, but 60k for T30 = golden?


A. Don't be a douche to me.

B. It's a tricky balance. If I had 90k worth of debt to go to Virginia, or Duke, then it would be difficult for me to pass up and I'd have to compare it to my other options. Overall, I'd have about 135K in debt with my undergrad. Assuming I make the high end of 120K at that, on second thought, yeah, I'd probably elect to take it, but it's a gamble I'd be scared to make nonetheless given the economy.

The point is that I'm skimming the margin at that point. If I had the options in front of me right now, it would be easier to assess how I actually feel about the risk - obviously - but guessing about myself, the marginal value of T14 (especially if it is T14 at a place I might not like) may not be enough to offset my debt aversion given the option of being in low tier 1 with 80-90k debt.

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NYC Law
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby NYC Law » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:01 am

NiccoloA wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:I wouldn't pay sticker for anything that isn't Top 6


But I think that I, and a lot of others, are put in sticky situation. I'm graduating UG with debt, more than I wanted to when the economy took its toll on my parents. If I were to graduate with my BA and just stick with that, I'd be in debt with as much as my median starting salary would probably give me in a career field that I don't really want to go through anymore.


A lot of people here say that law school isn't worth heavy amounts of debt, but for someone that can increase his starting salary by $25 - 65k with the opportunity to make a lot more over the course of his lifetime. The extra debt begins to go down in severity, especially if being a lawyer is something you really want to do. It's a tricky balance, I honestly don't think that I'd be particularly good at anything else, but I have to balance that with debt aversion.

Altogether I don't want to pay more than $80k for law school, unless I'm going to Stanford.


So 90k for MVPDN = out of the question, but 60k for T30 = golden?


A. Don't be a douche to me.

B. It's a tricky balance. If I had 90k worth of debt to go to Virginia, or Duke, then it would be difficult for me to pass up and I'd have to compare it to my other options. Overall, I'd have about 135K in debt with my undergrad. Assuming I make the high end of 120K at that, on second thought, yeah, I'd probably elect to take it, but it's a gamble I'd be scared to make nonetheless given the economy.

The point is that I'm skimming the margin at that point. If I had the options in front of me right now, it would be easier to assess how I actually feel about the risk - obviously - but guessing about myself, the marginal value of T14 (especially if it is T14 at a place I might not like) may not be enough to offset my debt aversion given the option of being in low tier 1 with 80-90k debt.


C. Don't make ridiculously stupid blanket statements

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MrBain_
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby MrBain_ » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:29 am

The most debt i'd be willing to incur for law school is 50k. On second thought, if 50k is ok, then i guess 51k wouldn't a big difference so i say 51k. Then again if 51k is ok, then 52k isn't that much more debt. Well i guess if 52k is ok then...damn you slippery slope, looks like i would pay sticker at Cumberland. :shock:

Real Madrid
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby Real Madrid » Thu Jul 28, 2011 2:20 am

ndirish2010 wrote:T10 is the absolute lowest I would go for sticker.


I always get confused when people use arbitrary numbers like this. What is considered T10? Just this year's T10, or do you throw Duke and NU in there too since they've been T10 in just the last couple years? I assume you mean MVPDNB.

HeavenWood
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby HeavenWood » Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:18 pm

NYC Law wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
NiccoloA wrote:I wouldn't pay sticker for anything that isn't Top 6


But I think that I, and a lot of others, are put in sticky situation. I'm graduating UG with debt, more than I wanted to when the economy took its toll on my parents. If I were to graduate with my BA and just stick with that, I'd be in debt with as much as my median starting salary would probably give me in a career field that I don't really want to go through anymore.


A lot of people here say that law school isn't worth heavy amounts of debt, but for someone that can increase his starting salary by $25 - 65k with the opportunity to make a lot more over the course of his lifetime. The extra debt begins to go down in severity, especially if being a lawyer is something you really want to do. It's a tricky balance, I honestly don't think that I'd be particularly good at anything else, but I have to balance that with debt aversion.

Altogether I don't want to pay more than $80k for law school, unless I'm going to Stanford.


So 90k for MVPDN = out of the question, but 60k for T30 = golden?


A. Don't be a douche to me.

B. It's a tricky balance. If I had 90k worth of debt to go to Virginia, or Duke, then it would be difficult for me to pass up and I'd have to compare it to my other options. Overall, I'd have about 135K in debt with my undergrad. Assuming I make the high end of 120K at that, on second thought, yeah, I'd probably elect to take it, but it's a gamble I'd be scared to make nonetheless given the economy.

The point is that I'm skimming the margin at that point. If I had the options in front of me right now, it would be easier to assess how I actually feel about the risk - obviously - but guessing about myself, the marginal value of T14 (especially if it is T14 at a place I might not like) may not be enough to offset my debt aversion given the option of being in low tier 1 with 80-90k debt.


C. Don't make ridiculously stupid blanket statements


TITCR

random5483
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby random5483 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:00 am

Law school is worth sticker to me, but not all law schools are worth it if I paid sticker.

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The Valkyrie
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby The Valkyrie » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:12 am

I wouldn't pay full price for any law school right now.

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SarahKerrigan
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby SarahKerrigan » Tue Aug 02, 2011 3:04 am

I voted yes, but i'm really not sure. it costs what it costs i guess. like someone else said, if its vs going and not going, its worth it.

TheFactor
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby TheFactor » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:12 pm

SarahKerrigan wrote:I voted yes, but i'm really not sure. it costs what it costs i guess. like someone else said, if its vs going and not going, its worth it.

At least you have good reasons.

Puttanesca
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby Puttanesca » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:52 pm

If paying sticker = taking out the full cost of law school in loans (meaning not having any personal or family resources to pay for LS), I would not pay sticker for any law school. I would find another career. $200K+ of debt is an insane amount. I am very debt averse and would not be willing to take out any more than 50K in loans for undergrad/LS combined.

firemed
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby firemed » Wed Aug 03, 2011 12:29 am

Puttanesca wrote:If paying sticker = taking out the full cost of law school in loans (meaning not having any personal or family resources to pay for LS), I would not pay sticker for any law school. I would find another career. $200K+ of debt is an insane amount. I am very debt averse and would not be willing to take out any more than 50K in loans for undergrad/LS combined.


Wow... you must have done well in undergrad... I have over 30K just from that. Another 60K or so from LS seems likely over the next three years.

And I though I was debt averse. :D

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northwood
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Re: Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU?

Postby northwood » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:59 am

noi its not.

then again moving is not worth it to me right now ( i forgot how much packing and moving blows)




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