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flcath wrote:Another big issue is that the kids who are the most likely to get screwed employment-wise are the same ones most likely to get screwed debt-wise.

A low LSAT score (relative to one's classmates) tends to produce both (a) a low scholarship, and (b) low grades. That's a particularly lethal combination, and yet another reason I tend to support going to the place that gives you big bucks.

flcath wrote:Another big issue is that the kids who are the most likely to get screwed employment-wise are the same ones most likely to get screwed debt-wise.

A low LSAT score (relative to one's classmates) tends to produce both (a) a low scholarship, and (b) low grades. That's a particularly lethal combination, and yet another reason I tend to support going to the place that gives you big bucks.

Borhas wrote:Regional school in my region or T14 (except UT and Cornell) worth sticker to me in a world w/ IBR

Borhas wrote:Regional school in my region or T14 (except UT, Northwestern, and Cornell) worth sticker to me in a world w/ IBR

Alex-Trof wrote:

FiveSermon wrote:

sundance95 wrote:IIRC, they stay on as 'Of Counsel'. If they can.

ETA: Or they lateral. Although allegedly one should lateral around the 4-5 year mark, because if employers think you are jumping ship just because you won't make partner, it makes it more difficult to lateral.

I see. Thanks.

Is it difficult to lateral to an in house job?

Also how hard is it to stay on even if you don't make partner? Is it rare? Common?

As far as I have been reading the conventional wisdom on TLS is that you will be taking a severe pay cut after your first Big Law gig. So if, say, you lasted 3 years, still have 6-figure debt left to repay, and have to take a pay cut and continue living in NYC/DC/LA/SF, you may potentially be screwed. That is especially true if you're trying to start a family or need to maintain one.

FiveSermon wrote:

Borhas wrote:Regional school in my region or T14 (except UT, Northwestern, and Cornell) worth sticker to me in a world w/ IBR

Egregious pro UT and GTown trolling.

FiveSermon wrote:

Borhas wrote:Regional school in my region or T14 (except UT, Northwestern, and Cornell) worth sticker to me in a world w/ IBR

Egregious pro UT and GTown trolling.

Wholigan wrote:
I don't really agree with this. I believe that most biglaw firms will let you hang around for 5-6 years even if you aren't going to make partner. Midlevel associates are very important to the economics of a firm, so the only reason to only last 3 years is because you burn out or you suck at an epic level. Pay doesn't stay at $160k/whatever market is. You move up in lockstep (usually), and if you are in one of the markets you mentioned, you should be making in the range of $300k including bonus by years 5-6. You should be able to pay off all of your debt by then if you are smart and aren't using your pay on hookers and blow.

beachbum wrote:Beachbum's guide to sticker success:

1) Kick ass and take names at T14 (*T13, LOL GULC)
2) Marry significant other with reasonably well-paying job (during or right after law school)
3) Biglaw (transactional) for 3-5 years. Avoid major luxury purchases during this time.
4) Transfer in-house, salary ~$100k
5) ????
6) Profit.

beachbum wrote:Beachbum's guide to sticker success:

1) Kick ass and take names at T14 (*T13, LOL GULC)
2) Marry significant other with reasonably well-paying job (during or right after law school)
3) Biglaw (transactional) for 3-5 years. Avoid major luxury purchases during this time.
4) Transfer in-house, salary ~$100k
5) ????
6) Profit.

FiveSermon wrote:

beachbum wrote:Beachbum's guide to sticker success:

1) Kick ass and take names at T14 (*T13, LOL GULC)
2) Marry significant other with reasonably well-paying job (during or right after law school)
3) Biglaw (transactional) for 3-5 years. Avoid major luxury purchases during this time.
4) Transfer in-house, salary ~$100k
5) ????
6) Profit.

Or the alternative

1) T13 at sticker
2) Graduate below median
3) Hang yourself

beachbum wrote:

FiveSermon wrote:

beachbum wrote:Beachbum's guide to sticker success:

1) Kick ass and take names at T14 (*T13, LOL GULC)
2) Marry significant other with reasonably well-paying job (during or right after law school)
3) Biglaw (transactional) for 3-5 years. Avoid major luxury purchases during this time.
4) Transfer in-house, salary ~$100k
5) ????
6) Profit.

Or the alternative

1) T13 at sticker
2) Graduate below median
3) Hang yourself

haha, or that. Either way you're debt-free!

But seriously, what I posted is pretty much my plan now. I'm not attending at full sticker (total debt probably $160-175k), and hopefully I'll be able to follow the plan while maintaining at least some financial discipline. Will let you all know how it goes in 5-10 years.

beachbum wrote:

FiveSermon wrote:

beachbum wrote:Beachbum's guide to sticker success:

1) Kick ass and take names at T14 (*T13, LOL GULC)
2) Marry significant other with reasonably well-paying job (during or right after law school)
3) Biglaw (transactional) for 3-5 years. Avoid major luxury purchases during this time.
4) Transfer in-house, salary ~$100k
5) ????
6) Profit.

Or the alternative

1) T13 at sticker
2) Graduate below median
3) Hang yourself

haha, or that. Either way you're debt-free!

But seriously, what I posted is pretty much my plan now. I'm not attending at full sticker (total debt probably $160-175k), and hopefully I'll be able to follow the plan while maintaining at least some financial discipline. Will let you all know how it goes in 5-10 years.

Patriot1208 wrote:

beachbum wrote:

FiveSermon wrote:

beachbum wrote:Beachbum's guide to sticker success:

1) Kick ass and take names at T14 (*T13, LOL GULC)
2) Marry significant other with reasonably well-paying job (during or right after law school)
3) Biglaw (transactional) for 3-5 years. Avoid major luxury purchases during this time.
4) Transfer in-house, salary ~$100k
5) ????
6) Profit.

Or the alternative

1) T13 at sticker
2) Graduate below median
3) Hang yourself

haha, or that. Either way you're debt-free!

But seriously, what I posted is pretty much my plan now. I'm not attending at full sticker (total debt probably $160-175k), and hopefully I'll be able to follow the plan while maintaining at least some financial discipline. Will let you all know how it goes in 5-10 years.

I don't know if I can trust you, your housing suggestions have not worked out for me so far.

flcath wrote:Another big issue is that the kids who are the most likely to get screwed employment-wise are the same ones most likely to get screwed debt-wise.

A low LSAT score (relative to one's classmates) tends to produce both (a) a low scholarship, and (b) low grades. That's a particularly lethal combination, and yet another reason I tend to support going to the place that gives you big bucks.

Stringer Bell wrote:

flcath wrote:Another big issue is that the kids who are the most likely to get screwed employment-wise are the same ones most likely to get screwed debt-wise.

A low LSAT score (relative to one's classmates) tends to produce both (a) a low scholarship, and (b) low grades. That's a particularly lethal combination, and yet another reason I tend to support going to the place that gives you big bucks.

Dude, splitters are abound paying sticker at the t13. There is quite a bit of anecdotal evidence that many splitters that post on this site have done well. I don't think splitters are automatically going to finish at the end of the curve because they are competing with sociology majors who got a 3.8.

EDIT: I know you mentioned LSAT score, but I'm countering the point that folks paying sticker are subsidizing people that will outperform them.

LettuceBeefRealTea wrote:there are a lot of signs of serious inflation starting from the FED's QE. over the next couple of years, putting that cash into a law degree might be one of the best ways of "storing value" in that it is an investment in future earnings as high levels of inflation eat away at your pool of debt. there is speculation that the value of the dollar will be cut in half over the next 5 years. there is a lot of literature being published on this right now, but you can see it if you compare how much food you can buy with $200 now vs. 6 months ago. then again, wages always hang years behind inflation, so your real cost of living is going to hurt those returns. this is why the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. this under the table inflation doesn't get put into newspapers. it is a form of a tax break for corporations and investors while people with no financial knowledge get functionally taxed to inflate our debt away. people on fixed incomes have no way to adapt. such a fucked up world. anyways, its an awesome situation to be taking on debt in.

or buy $200k of physical holdings or leveraged gold/silver/food futures contracts.

Patriot1208 wrote:

LettuceBeefRealTea wrote:there are a lot of signs of serious inflation starting from the FED's QE. over the next couple of years, putting that cash into a law degree might be one of the best ways of "storing value" in that it is an investment in future earnings as high levels of inflation eat away at your pool of debt. there is speculation that the value of the dollar will be cut in half over the next 5 years. there is a lot of literature being published on this right now, but you can see it if you compare how much food you can buy with $200 now vs. 6 months ago. then again, wages always hang years behind inflation, so your real cost of living is going to hurt those returns. this is why the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer. this under the table inflation doesn't get put into newspapers. it is a form of a tax break for corporations and investors while people with no financial knowledge get functionally taxed to inflate our debt away. people on fixed incomes have no way to adapt. such a fucked up world. anyways, its an awesome situation to be taking on debt in.

or buy $200k of physical holdings or leveraged gold/silver/food futures contracts.

50% inflation in five years? Bro, you need to stop watching beck.

romothesavior wrote: Go talk to some attorneys and ask them if they think 220k in debt is worth it. My guess is the answer will be an overwhelming no.