Is Law School Worth Sticker to YOU? Forum

[Nailjohnj]

ok, so exactly 100 posts later after my initial question... awesome!

These results are great.

EDIT: the poll question is too vague.

I kept the poll question vague on purpose.... call it a TLS rorschach test, to let people respond to the question they saw. And what I found interesting was that after 100 responses that stated in an overwhelming majority that only t-14 (and mostly t-6) schools were worth sticker, that the majority of people who voted (65%) indicated that law in general was worth sticker.

Anyone with an explanation that doesn't involve calling people stupid for paying sticker?

[stratocophic]

ok, so exactly 100 posts later after my initial question... awesome!

These results are great.

EDIT: the poll question is too vague.

I kept the poll question vague on purpose.... call it a TLS rorschach test, to let people respond to the question they saw. And what I found interesting was that after 100 responses that stated in an overwhelming majority that only t-14 (and mostly t-6) schools were worth sticker, that the majority of people who voted (65%) indicated that law in general was worth sticker.

Anyone with an explanation that doesn't involve calling people stupid for paying sticker?

People who say it's worth sticker either read it as meaning schools they would go to at sticker, meaning they believe that some school out there is worth full price, or are dumb and would go to any law school at sticker. The rest read the question as meaning any law school or most law schools and answered no. Interpret as: a majority of people consider some law school somewhere to be worth sticker.

[DoubleChecks]

ok, so exactly 100 posts later after my initial question... awesome!

These results are great.

EDIT: the poll question is too vague.

I kept the poll question vague on purpose.... call it a TLS rorschach test, to let people respond to the question they saw. And what I found interesting was that after 100 responses that stated in an overwhelming majority that only t-14 (and mostly t-6) schools were worth sticker, that the majority of people who voted (65%) indicated that law in general was worth sticker.

Anyone with an explanation that doesn't involve calling people stupid for paying sticker?

probably because you kept it vague right? i mean, anyone who thinks only T6 schools are worth sticker would still vote yes to your question...lol, no where in the question does it ask "in general"

[romothesavior]

The poll question sucks. Are SOME law schools worth sticker? Yes. I'd say about 10 are, and even that is debatable. So you're looking at 10 schools worth sticker out of over 200.

No idea what this poll was supposed to prove.

[fragged]

I think it depends on how you define "worth."

For me, it's worth sticker - every last penny.

[Hoosier]

You are the lawyers that people hate. You are the ones looking down on and condescending to the people that you, with your vast legal knowledge, should be helping.
Seven hours ago, I was saying to my mother as I bicked what little hair she had left on her head from her chemotherapy (the reason that I only considered regional schools), “I can’t wait to start law school. I visited and I felt like I belonged. I finally get to leave my shit show of a company behind and do something that I’ve always wanted to do.”
Then I read this thread and I started wondering if I shouldn’t withdraw because I’m going to Montana. I didn’t even apply to any of the schools discussed in this thread. And I’m paying full tuition. (Granted, it’s in-state, which is considerably less than what even most students pay with scholarships, and less than I would have paid with my partial scholarship to Gonzaga.) You had me thinking it’s not worth it.

But I’m not going to law school so that I eventually have enough money to buy a house in Yellowstone Club (look it up). I said a long time ago that I consider the monthly payments that I’ll be making on my student loans to be a fee for having the opportunity to directly help people (something that my current microbiology career will never give me) and for having a job that I love (also a feeling that my current microbiology career will never give me).
In short, screw you.

[Grizz]

I said a long time ago that I consider the monthly payments that I’ll be making on my student loans to be a fee for having the opportunity to directly help people

LOL

[lawlcat4179]

Only school I'd pay sticker for is Yale. I'd pass on pretty much any other T-14 and go for less debt. Anything below a very strong regional and I wouldn't even go for free. It would wind up just being a waste of 3 years that I wouldn't get back.

I think a lot of people's preferences comes down to their family, connections, and other factors. If I had family connections or a rich dad, I'd probably go for the debt, knowing that if I failed I would still be okay. But as is, if I strike out I'll be on the street. Naturally this would leave me going for less debt every time. There is an old saying that you shouldn't gamble more than you can afford to lose. Contrary to what people may believe, law school very much is a gamble.

I know that in the long run you'll probably make more money going to the higher ranked school. But people need to think long and hard about taking out that much debt, especially when you don't have the network to help you out if things go bad. When i hear people in other threads talking about how they lose sleep over the debt they are taking out, it tells me that they made the wrong decision with their school. If you are not comfortable with the debt load, then you are over your threshold and are gambling more than you can afford to lose. Sure it may work out and you hit it big, but regardless it was the wrong choice.

But hey, if ever you question your decision about taking out debt, you can always rationalize it by remembering that there are actually people who pay sticker at Cooley, so it could always be worse. Unfortunately at Cooley it is a vicious cycle at work. People lack the cognitive ability to get into a good law school and concurrently lack the cognitive ability to determine that they are making the worst mistake of their life. Oh well, that's enough ranting for now.

[Wholigan]

You are the lawyers that people hate. You are the ones looking down on and condescending to the people that you, with your vast legal knowledge, should be helping.
Seven hours ago, I was saying to my mother as I bicked what little hair she had left on her head from her chemotherapy (the reason that I only considered regional schools), “I can’t wait to start law school. I visited and I felt like I belonged. I finally get to leave my shit show of a company behind and do something that I’ve always wanted to do.”
Then I read this thread and I started wondering if I shouldn’t withdraw because I’m going to Montana. I didn’t even apply to any of the schools discussed in this thread. And I’m paying full tuition. (Granted, it’s in-state, which is considerably less than what even most students pay with scholarships, and less than I would have paid with my partial scholarship to Gonzaga.) You had me thinking it’s not worth it.

But I’m not going to law school so that I eventually have enough money to buy a house in Yellowstone Club (look it up). I said a long time ago that I consider the monthly payments that I’ll be making on my student loans to be a fee for having the opportunity to directly help people (something that my current microbiology career will never give me) and for having a job that I love (also a feeling that my current microbiology career will never give me).
In short, screw you.

You really should have read more than just this thread before making generalities. Even with the elitism mindset sometime prevalent, I think very few members of this site would tell you that sticker at Montana ($10k/year?!) is a bad deal if you are from Montana and want to work there. Most of the animus towards third tier schools is directed at the ones in already saturated markets.

[firemed]

You are the lawyers that people hate. You are the ones looking down on and condescending to the people that you, with your vast legal knowledge, should be helping.
Seven hours ago, I was saying to my mother as I bicked what little hair she had left on her head from her chemotherapy (the reason that I only considered regional schools), “I can’t wait to start law school. I visited and I felt like I belonged. I finally get to leave my shit show of a company behind and do something that I’ve always wanted to do.”
Then I read this thread and I started wondering if I shouldn’t withdraw because I’m going to Montana. I didn’t even apply to any of the schools discussed in this thread. And I’m paying full tuition. (Granted, it’s in-state, which is considerably less than what even most students pay with scholarships, and less than I would have paid with my partial scholarship to Gonzaga.) You had me thinking it’s not worth it.

But I’m not going to law school so that I eventually have enough money to buy a house in Yellowstone Club (look it up). I said a long time ago that I consider the monthly payments that I’ll be making on my student loans to be a fee for having the opportunity to directly help people (something that my current microbiology career will never give me) and for having a job that I love (also a feeling that my current microbiology career will never give me).
In short, screw you.

Way to revive a dead thread troll.

And Montana at sticker is worth it any day of the week.

[LoyalRebel]

Here's a third party's opinion as to best "bang for your buck".

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/b ... -announced

Do careful research and I think you can get an education on par with a T1 for a fraction of the cost and with less strict admission requirements

You are the lawyers that people hate. You are the ones looking down on and condescending to the people that you, with your vast legal knowledge, should be helping.
Seven hours ago, I was saying to my mother as I bicked what little hair she had left on her head from her chemotherapy (the reason that I only considered regional schools), “I can’t wait to start law school. I visited and I felt like I belonged. I finally get to leave my shit show of a company behind and do something that I’ve always wanted to do.”
Then I read this thread and I started wondering if I shouldn’t withdraw because I’m going to Montana. I didn’t even apply to any of the schools discussed in this thread. And I’m paying full tuition. (Granted, it’s in-state, which is considerably less than what even most students pay with scholarships, and less than I would have paid with my partial scholarship to Gonzaga.) You had me thinking it’s not worth it.

But I’m not going to law school so that I eventually have enough money to buy a house in Yellowstone Club (look it up). I said a long time ago that I consider the monthly payments that I’ll be making on my student loans to be a fee for having the opportunity to directly help people (something that my current microbiology career will never give me) and for having a job that I love (also a feeling that my current microbiology career will never give me).
In short, screw you.

I gave the same type of speech on my first few posts here because all of the arrogance annoyed me to no end. In short, I tend to agree with you.

[beachbum]

Here's a third party's opinion as to best "bang for your buck".

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/b ... -announced

Do careful research and I think you can get an education on par with a T1 for a fraction of the cost and with less strict admission requirements

I can walk down the street to the local TTT and get an education on par with a T14. I cannot, however, get job opportunities on par with top schools, regardless of what some shitty ranking says. But good luck at Florida International.

[LoyalRebel]

Here's a third party's opinion as to best "bang for your buck".

http://www.nationaljurist.com/content/b ... -announced

Do careful research and I think you can get an education on par with a T1 for a fraction of the cost and with less strict admission requirements

I can walk down the street to the local TTT and get an education on par with a T14. I cannot, however, get job opportunities on par with top schools, regardless of what some shitty ranking says. But good luck at Florida International.

I'd take a decent 3T's job opportunities for 10k a year over an SMU or Baylor's for 40k a year any day. All a T1 really does is put a feather in your cap and put you in the position to shake hands with bigshot firms. That helps, but more often than not you're paying through the nose for it. Landing the actual job is up to you.

[Grizz]

I'd take a decent 3T's job opportunities for 10k a year over an SMU or Baylor's for 40k a year any day.

I'd retake the LSAT.

[LoyalRebel]

I'd take a decent 3T's job opportunities for 10k a year over an SMU or Baylor's for 40k a year any day.

I'd retake the LSAT.

Do you have anything else you'd like to share?

[ArchRoark]

People on here are really debt adverse, probably more so than really makes sense. I guess if you just really want a lot of money at biglaw vs. just looking at averages the it could make sense. I'd pay sticker through the t20 if it was go to law school now or never go to go to law school.

Not really, its more like the people who arent competitive for the t14 always make it a point to tell everyone they wouldnt pay sticker at a t14.

Meh, I landed a couple T14s at sticker/near sticker, and I don't think I am going to go. Some of us are just more debt averse then others and do not subscribe to the the "biglaw or bust" mentality.

Only school I'd pay sticker for is Yale. I'd pass on pretty much any other T-14 and go for less debt. Anything below a very strong regional and I wouldn't even go for free. It would wind up just being a waste of 3 years that I wouldn't get back.

I think a lot of people's preferences comes down to their family, connections, and other factors. If I had family connections or a rich dad, I'd probably go for the debt, knowing that if I failed I would still be okay. But as is, if I strike out I'll be on the street. Naturally this would leave me going for less debt every time. There is an old saying that you shouldn't gamble more than you can afford to lose. Contrary to what people may believe, law school very much is a gamble.

I know that in the long run you'll probably make more money going to the higher ranked school. But people need to think long and hard about taking out that much debt, especially when you don't have the network to help you out if things go bad. When i hear people in other threads talking about how they lose sleep over the debt they are taking out, it tells me that they made the wrong decision with their school. If you are not comfortable with the debt load, then you are over your threshold and are gambling more than you can afford to lose. Sure it may work out and you hit it big, but regardless it was the wrong choice.

But hey, if ever you question your decision about taking out debt, you can always rationalize it by remembering that there are actually people who pay sticker at Cooley, so it could always be worse. Unfortunately at Cooley it is a vicious cycle at work. People lack the cognitive ability to get into a good law school and concurrently lack the cognitive ability to determine that they are making the worst mistake of their life. Oh well, that's enough ranting for now.

+1 *except I would pay sticker at HYSCCN

I literally feel a pit of anxiety in my stomach when I think of the debt-load sticker at GULC or NU entails.

[farszandian]

anyone who says it's not worth it to pay sticker at a t14 is a complete moron. do you people seriously think that all the happy, successful lawyers out there are harvard, yale, stanford grads who didn't pay a cent for their education? have you ever met a lawyer? odds are he didn't graduate from a t14 and he's still paying back his loans. did he wish he wasn't paying back loans? of course. is he living on the streets, dodging creditors, contemplating suicide in a post-apocalyptic... err post-grad world? of course not.

a major problem with these boards -- probably the biggest problem actually -- is this idiotic, elitist perpetuation of the idea that if you're not getting at least a half scholly from a t14 you'd be an idiot to even briefly consider going to law school. it's a problem cause you have impressionable kids reading this stuff who are liable to get swayed by such a pervasive opinion, likely the most pervasive and prominent of any of the major collective opinions on these boards. and it's absolute conjecture.

if you want to be a lawyer-- if you truly want to be a lawyer for the right reasons, you should go to law school regardless of the impending debt. anyone who tells you otherwise either has no idea what they're talking about or wants to be a lawyer for the wrong reasons.

[flcath]

I don't think LS is worth 3 years for free.

[HeavenWood]

anyone who says it's not worth it to pay sticker at a t14 is a complete moron. do you people seriously think that all the happy, successful lawyers out there are harvard, yale, stanford grads who didn't pay a cent for their education? have you ever met a lawyer? odds are he didn't graduate from a t14 and he's still paying back his loans. did he wish he wasn't paying back loans? of course. is he living on the streets, dodging creditors, contemplating suicide in a post-apocalyptic... err post-grad world? of course not.

a major problem with these boards -- probably the biggest problem actually -- is this idiotic, elitist perpetuation of the idea that if you're not getting at least a half scholly from a t14 you'd be an idiot to even briefly consider going to law school. it's a problem cause you have impressionable kids reading this stuff who are liable to get swayed by such a pervasive opinion, likely the most pervasive and prominent of any of the major collective opinions on these boards. and it's absolute conjecture.

if you want to be a lawyer-- if you truly want to be a lawyer for the right reasons, you should go to law school regardless of the impending debt. anyone who tells you otherwise either has no idea what they're talking about or wants to be a lawyer for the wrong reasons.

It depends on...

1) The T14
2) One's degree of debt aversion
3) One's career goals

[ArchRoark]

anyone who says it's not worth it to pay sticker at a t14 is a complete moron. do you people seriously think that all the happy, successful lawyers out there are harvard, yale, stanford grads who didn't pay a cent for their education? have you ever met a lawyer? odds are he didn't graduate from a t14 and he's still paying back his loans. did he wish he wasn't paying back loans? of course. is he living on the streets, dodging creditors, contemplating suicide in a post-apocalyptic... err post-grad world? of course not.

a major problem with these boards -- probably the biggest problem actually -- is this idiotic, elitist perpetuation of the idea that if you're not getting at least a half scholly from a t14 you'd be an idiot to even briefly consider going to law school. it's a problem cause you have impressionable kids reading this stuff who are liable to get swayed by such a pervasive opinion, likely the most pervasive and prominent of any of the major collective opinions on these boards. and it's absolute conjecture.

if you want to be a lawyer-- if you truly want to be a lawyer for the right reasons, you should go to law school regardless of the impending debt. anyone who tells you otherwise either has no idea what they're talking about or wants to be a lawyer for the wrong reasons.

It depends on...

1) The T14
2) One's degree of debt aversion
3) One's career goals

And it is rarely a choice between attending a T14 at sticker and not going to law school, but, more often, attending a T14 at sticker versus attending a strong regional T1 with a near/full-tuition scholarship with no stipulations.

[Patriot1208]

anyone who says it's not worth it to pay sticker at a t14 is a complete moron. do you people seriously think that all the happy, successful lawyers out there are harvard, yale, stanford grads who didn't pay a cent for their education? have you ever met a lawyer? odds are he didn't graduate from a t14 and he's still paying back his loans. did he wish he wasn't paying back loans? of course. is he living on the streets, dodging creditors, contemplating suicide in a post-apocalyptic... err post-grad world? of course not.

a major problem with these boards -- probably the biggest problem actually -- is this idiotic, elitist perpetuation of the idea that if you're not getting at least a half scholly from a t14 you'd be an idiot to even briefly consider going to law school. it's a problem cause you have impressionable kids reading this stuff who are liable to get swayed by such a pervasive opinion, likely the most pervasive and prominent of any of the major collective opinions on these boards. and it's absolute conjecture.
if you want to be a lawyer-- if you truly want to be a lawyer for the right reasons, you should go to law school regardless of the impending debt. anyone who tells you otherwise either has no idea what they're talking about or wants to be a lawyer for the wrong reasons.

I like that you use the term impressionable kids as you flippantly and immaturely disregard mountains of debt that has crippled lives.

ETA in no world is gtown worth full coa.

[classix]

anyone who says it's not worth it to pay sticker at a t14 is a complete moron. do you people seriously think that all the happy, successful lawyers out there are harvard, yale, stanford grads who didn't pay a cent for their education? have you ever met a lawyer? odds are he didn't graduate from a t14 and he's still paying back his loans. did he wish he wasn't paying back loans? of course. is he living on the streets, dodging creditors, contemplating suicide in a post-apocalyptic... err post-grad world? of course not.

a major problem with these boards -- probably the biggest problem actually -- is this idiotic, elitist perpetuation of the idea that if you're not getting at least a half scholly from a t14 you'd be an idiot to even briefly consider going to law school. it's a problem cause you have impressionable kids reading this stuff who are liable to get swayed by such a pervasive opinion, likely the most pervasive and prominent of any of the major collective opinions on these boards. and it's absolute conjecture.

if you want to be a lawyer-- if you truly want to be a lawyer for the right reasons, you should go to law school regardless of the impending debt. anyone who tells you otherwise either has no idea what they're talking about or wants to be a lawyer for the wrong reasons.

These successful and established lawyers you speak of also paid around half the tuition we now face with a job market that was probably twice as good. It's nowhere near the same decision today.

But point taken: don't be a pussy and go to UDC for the $.

[BeachandRun23]

I'd pay sticker for the top 30 or so. Anything less than that, and I'd have to think really long and hard about it. Maybe some schools in the top 100 are worth sticker, assuming that 1) you are getting in state tuition and/or 2) its not in an oversaturated market.

[romothesavior]

anyone who says it's not worth it to pay sticker at a t14 is a complete moron. do you people seriously think that all the happy, successful lawyers out there are harvard, yale, stanford grads who didn't pay a cent for their education? have you ever met a lawyer? odds are he didn't graduate from a t14 and he's still paying back his loans. did he wish he wasn't paying back loans? of course. is he living on the streets, dodging creditors, contemplating suicide in a post-apocalyptic... err post-grad world? of course not.

a major problem with these boards -- probably the biggest problem actually -- is this idiotic, elitist perpetuation of the idea that if you're not getting at least a half scholly from a t14 you'd be an idiot to even briefly consider going to law school. it's a problem cause you have impressionable kids reading this stuff who are liable to get swayed by such a pervasive opinion, likely the most pervasive and prominent of any of the major collective opinions on these boards. and it's absolute conjecture.

if you want to be a lawyer-- if you truly want to be a lawyer for the right reasons, you should go to law school regardless of the impending debt. anyone who tells you otherwise either has no idea what they're talking about or wants to be a lawyer for the wrong reasons.

Fixed that for you.

Ah yes, the classic "You're all just elitists!" argument. Because it is soooo elitist to want to have a decent job and live a respectable, middle class life. News flash, dipshit: this has nothing to do with schools or prestige or comparing weiner size. This is about having a job, getting out of debt, buying a home, starting a family, etc. If you can achieve those things from a Tier 3 school, then great. But most don't, and because most don't, you should keep your debt low.

And your first sentence is the worst one in your whole post. People who don't think it is worth it to take out 220k of law school debt for 40% chance at a six-figure job are just "morons?" Do you know how long it takes to pay back $200,000 of debt, even with a six-figure salary (especially in an expensive city like DC or NYC)? Apparently you have no concept of debt. Try living in NYC/DC with 220k in debt from Georgetown or Cornell and working as a temp attorney doing doc review in the basement of some biglaw firm and get back to us. Hell, even having a 50k job and 220k in law school debt would be MISERABLE and take many, many years to pay off. People who don't want to drown in debt for decades of their life are absolutely not morons.

[romothesavior]

if you want to be a lawyer-- if you truly want to be a lawyer for the right reasons, you should go to law school regardless of the impending debt. anyone who tells you otherwise either has no idea what they're talking about or wants to be a lawyer for the wrong reasons.

Also, suggesting that it is this black and white is ridiculous. I am in law school for the right reasons (NOT money, and I really want to practice law), but that doesn't mean there isn't a point at which law school would become a bad idea. There are lots of people who REALLY want to be lawyers who should still not go to law school.

I really want to be a professional baseball player, but I wouldn't spend $200,000 and three years trying out for the Cardinals right now.