How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

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pasteurizedmilk
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:42 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
dakatz wrote:
lawschoollll wrote:Debt and job

v.

No debt and no job


If you are deciding between T-14 and Tier 3/4, then this is pretty accurate. But if one makes a 200K decision on such black and white thinking, they have made a pretty poorly informed decision.

Do you all seriously think that no one in the T14 is striking out this year? Head over the employment forum for a spell.


I don't think that, but in the realm of life decisions there are worse gambles. Go talk to a philosophy PhD...makes the legal market look downright balmy.
.....I'm not sure this is really a valid point.

lawschoollll
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby lawschoollll » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:44 pm

dakatz wrote:Philosophy Phd? Lol, what do they expect? They dug themselves into a hole with a philosophy BA, and then instead of climbing out of the hole, they just keep digging it deeper. Can't imagine that it would put the majority of them in any sort of good position.

But they *learn* how to *think*, *bro*.

GettingReady2010
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby GettingReady2010 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:45 pm

If IBR is repealed, would those that are already enrolled in law school be grandfathered in? I don't know how this stuff works.
Last edited by GettingReady2010 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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General Tso
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby General Tso » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:45 pm

homestyle28 wrote:I don't think that, but in the realm of life decisions there are worse gambles. Go talk to a philosophy PhD...makes the legal market look downright balmy.


Not really a valid comparison...most PhDs are cheap or free, even if there are zero job prospects. I don't think the comparison should be MBA v. JD v. Phd anyway, it should really be "grad school or no?". All graduate degrees have poor job prospects right now (except MD of course), and most of them are not sound financial decisions.

I regret jumping into law school without testing the waters with my Econ BA. I think I could have pulled 55-65k, which is probably what I'll be looking at after law school anyway.

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:45 pm

dakatz wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:I don't think that, but in the realm of life decisions there are worse gambles. Go talk to a philosophy PhD...makes the legal market look downright balmy.


Philosophy Phd? Lol, what do they expect? They dug themselves into a hole with a philosophy BA, and then instead of climbing out of the hole, they just keep digging it deeper. Can't imagine that it would put the majority of them in any sort of good position.


And ironically they're all pretty well armed for the LSAT and LS.

dakatz
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby dakatz » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:46 pm

[/quote]I don't think that, but in the realm of life decisions there are worse gambles. Go talk to a philosophy PhD...makes the legal market look downright balmy.[/quote].....I'm not sure this is really a valid point.[/quote]

+1. You don't justify something by saying that "it could be worse". And I'm sure that Philosophy PhD's look at their job market and say "well at least I didn't become an astronaut. Because compared to the chances of getting that job, my chances in becoming a philosophy professor are downright great".

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Thirteen
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby Thirteen » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:47 pm

~100k

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:48 pm

General Tso wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:I don't think that, but in the realm of life decisions there are worse gambles. Go talk to a philosophy PhD...makes the legal market look downright balmy.


Not really a valid comparison...most PhDs are cheap or free, even if there are zero job prospects. I don't think the comparison should be MBA v. JD v. Phd anyway, it should really be "grad school or no?". All graduate degrees have poor job prospects right now (except MD of course), and most of them are not sound financial decisions.

I regret jumping into law school without testing the waters with my Econ BA. I think I could have pulled 55-65k, which is probably what I'll be looking at after law school anyway.


I think the investments are just different. Most grad stipends don't really cover COL, so many PhD's I know wind up 5-7 years later with 30k or so in debt. Then the best jobs they can get that actually use their PhD pay 30k and are non-tenure track. What really sets it apart from LS is the fact that this happens to PhD's at top schools who are top-notch students.

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:52 pm

dakatz wrote:
I don't think that, but in the realm of life decisions there are worse gambles. Go talk to a philosophy PhD...makes the legal market look downright balmy.[/quote].....I'm not sure this is really a valid point.[/quote]

+1. You don't justify something by saying that "it could be worse". And I'm sure that Philosophy PhD's look at their job market and say "well at least I didn't become an astronaut. Because compared to the chances of getting that job, my chances in becoming a philosophy professor are downright great".[/quote]

Doesn't this depend upon one's circumstances? If you are already in graduate school for phil bailing out for LS is justified by saying "my current track is worse than the alternative."

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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby dakatz » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:54 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
dakatz wrote:
I don't think that, but in the realm of life decisions there are worse gambles. Go talk to a philosophy PhD...makes the legal market look downright balmy.
.....I'm not sure this is really a valid point.[/quote]

+1. You don't justify something by saying that "it could be worse". And I'm sure that Philosophy PhD's look at their job market and say "well at least I didn't become an astronaut. Because compared to the chances of getting that job, my chances in becoming a philosophy professor are downright great".[/quote]

Doesn't this depend upon one's circumstances? If you are already in graduate school for phil bailing out for LS is justified by saying "my current track is worse than the alternative."[/quote]

Of course, but that is different than what you said earlier. You made it sound like one can justify a decision simply by looking around and saying, "well others have it worse so my gamble isn't that bad", which isn't good reason. But if you are talking about philosophy grad students in particularly trying to put themselves in a slightly better position, then yes of course jumping to law school might actually be safer, as odd as it seems to call law school safe in any way.

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:55 pm

fair enough.

GettingReady2010
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby GettingReady2010 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:03 pm

GettingReady2010 wrote:If IBR is repealed, would those that are already enrolled in law school be grandfathered in? I don't know how this stuff works.

bdubs
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby bdubs » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:08 pm

theantiscalia wrote:
bdubs wrote:USNWR reports that the average debt across the T14 is between $80-130k.

Does this mean that they are averaging 60% of people paying 180-200k and 40% paying close to zero?


No, it doesn't mean that.

In my experience: 15% pay close to zero (rich parents), 50% get large scholarships that offset most of the cost (at least for tuition), and 35% or so pay out the ass. Plus, some people have pre-law school savings (like myself) and a couple of nice summer gigs helps a lot.


ABA figures don't show anywhere near 50% getting more than half-tuition at T-14 schools. Also, the USNWR average debt figures are for those who are borrowing money (i.e. excludes rich kids who have family paying for everything).

So, either USNWR average debt figures are wrong (distinctly possible) or there are just not that many people borrowing $200k for law school.

Current students, do you ever discuss this ridiculousness with your classmates?

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:09 pm

GettingReady2010 wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:If IBR is repealed, would those that are already enrolled in law school be grandfathered in? I don't know how this stuff works.


It would depend on the repeal, but it had reasonably bipartisan support when passed. In all likelihood if you were already in IBR repayment and it was repealed, you'd get grandfathered, but if not you'd be stuck unless there was something that replaced it.

howardsbest
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby howardsbest » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:13 pm

About 200-210k (undergrad and law school) if I pay 1500-2000 a year that debt is gone within 10-15 years.

If you went to law school to f*** sorry for you. But I am going to make at least 100k out the gate.

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bk1
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby bk1 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:18 pm

howardsbest wrote:If you went to law school to f*** sorry for you. But I am going to make at least 100k out the gate.


lol

GettingReady2010
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby GettingReady2010 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:18 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:If IBR is repealed, would those that are already enrolled in law school be grandfathered in? I don't know how this stuff works.


It would depend on the repeal, but it had reasonably bipartisan support when passed. In all likelihood if you were already in IBR repayment and it was repealed, you'd get grandfathered, but if not you'd be stuck unless there was something that replaced it.


This is at least a little encouraging.

I would be very surprised if it was repealed in the next two years. Even if it did manage to pass both houses, I highly doubt Obama would sign off on it even if it.
Last edited by GettingReady2010 on Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby Renzo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:19 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:If IBR is repealed, would those that are already enrolled in law school be grandfathered in? I don't know how this stuff works.


It would depend on the repeal, but it had reasonably bipartisan support when passed. In all likelihood if you were already in IBR repayment and it was repealed, you'd get grandfathered, but if not you'd be stuck unless there was something that replaced it.

Congress could theoretically amend it at any time in any way. But it's extremely unlikely that they would alter the already-written contracts with borrowers.

GettingReady2010
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby GettingReady2010 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 4:20 pm

Renzo wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:If IBR is repealed, would those that are already enrolled in law school be grandfathered in? I don't know how this stuff works.


It would depend on the repeal, but it had reasonably bipartisan support when passed. In all likelihood if you were already in IBR repayment and it was repealed, you'd get grandfathered, but if not you'd be stuck unless there was something that replaced it.

Congress could theoretically amend it at any time in any way. But it's extremely unlikely that they would alter the already-written contracts with borrowers.


Obama would have to sign off on this, no?

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crazycanuck
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby crazycanuck » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:16 pm

howardsbest wrote:About 200-210k (undergrad and law school) if I pay 1500-2000 a year that debt is gone within 10-15 years.

If you went to law school to f*** sorry for you. But I am going to make at least 100k out the gate.


*scratches head*

Assuming a 5% interest rate and a principal of $200,000, to pay it off in 15 years you would need to be paying 19,268.46 per year.

If you are only paying $2000 per year on a monthly instalment basis of $167 per month, you will have $378,103.53 of debt at the end of 15 years.

Did you mistake year for month?

Apple Tree
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby Apple Tree » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:50 pm

$70k+interest, and I DON'T like it at all. I'm already stressed out about it. I remember how much I hated paying my car loan every month and how great I felt when I paid it all off. I don't know when I'll be able to pay all this loan off...

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General Tso
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby General Tso » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:58 pm

what is the tax break for student loan payments? I think you only get a deduction equal to your payments if your gross income is less than 50k or something.

Aqualibrium
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby Aqualibrium » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:02 pm

howardsbest wrote:About 200-210k (undergrad and law school) if I pay 1500-2000 a year that debt is gone within 10-15 years.

If you went to law school to f*** sorry for you. But I am going to make at least 100k out the gate.



Don't you go to Catholic? Top 20% at American is having trouble getting anything...Catholic is no American.

bdubs
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby bdubs » Wed Nov 03, 2010 6:42 pm

General Tso wrote:what is the tax break for student loan payments? I think you only get a deduction equal to your payments if your gross income is less than 50k or something.


If you have to worry about the tax break then you will be using IBR or LRAP to cover your loans.

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jrwhitedog
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby jrwhitedog » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:24 pm

General Tso wrote:what is the tax break for student loan payments? I think you only get a deduction equal to your payments if your gross income is less than 50k or something.


You mean the student loan interests,right? But how about the student loans?




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