How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

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jrwhitedog
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How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby jrwhitedog » Tue Nov 02, 2010 9:51 pm

Assuming all your income is either from the grant or loan.

GettingReady2010
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby GettingReady2010 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 10:02 pm

This should definitely be a poll. You should also specify whether or not to include all debt (i.e. undergrad, law school, and credit card) or just law school debt.

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jrwhitedog
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby jrwhitedog » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:55 am

GettingReady2010 wrote:This should definitely be a poll. You should also specify whether or not to include all debt (i.e. undergrad, law school, and credit card) or just law school debt.

Yeah, but my problem is that I've paid off my undergraduate loans but definitely can't afford law school tuition.

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:00 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:This should definitely be a poll. You should also specify whether or not to include all debt (i.e. undergrad, law school, and credit card) or just law school debt.

Yeah, but my problem is that I've paid off my undergraduate loans but definitely can't afford law school tuition.

$210k+. Not joking. Hooray for good LRAPs!

Renzo
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby Renzo » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:04 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:This should definitely be a poll. You should also specify whether or not to include all debt (i.e. undergrad, law school, and credit card) or just law school debt.

Yeah, but my problem is that I've paid off my undergraduate loans but definitely can't afford law school tuition.

$210k+. Not joking. Hooray for good LRAPs!

'bout $230 for me. Hooray for the most expensive school in the country.

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:06 pm

Renzo wrote:
homestyle28 wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:
GettingReady2010 wrote:This should definitely be a poll. You should also specify whether or not to include all debt (i.e. undergrad, law school, and credit card) or just law school debt.

Yeah, but my problem is that I've paid off my undergraduate loans but definitely can't afford law school tuition.

$210k+. Not joking. Hooray for good LRAPs!

'bout $230 for me. Hooray for the most expensive school in the country.


If I get a bump in COA for childcare costs I could easily hit $250k...here's a tip, while you can't discharge ed debt in bankruptcy it is discharged when you die...so Plan B: fake death.

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bringbackfirefly
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby bringbackfirefly » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:09 pm

homestyle28 wrote:If I get a bump in COA for childcare costs I could easily hit $250k...here's a tip, while you can't discharge ed debt in bankruptcy it is discharged when you die...so Plan B: fake death die.

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2Serious4Numbers
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby 2Serious4Numbers » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:16 pm

~240

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JazzOne
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby JazzOne » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:17 pm

$30K maybe? That's if I go crazy and don't save any money this summer.

helfer snooterbagon
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby helfer snooterbagon » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:18 pm

Absolutely nothing.

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swc65
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby swc65 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:23 pm

170 if frugal
140 if I win the 1L SA lottery
190 if Saks keeps tricking into buying clothes I do not need

czelede
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby czelede » Wed Nov 03, 2010 12:58 pm

swc65 wrote:170 if frugal
140 if I win the 1L SA lottery
190 if Saks keeps tricking into buying clothes I do not need


Saks is tricksy like that.

dakatz
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby dakatz » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:00 pm

About 25K. The 200K + numbers make me shudder in fear, and the debt isn't even mine

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JazzOne
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby JazzOne » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:25 pm

dakatz wrote:About 25K. The 200K + numbers make me shudder in fear, and the debt isn't even mine

+1

I don't how people can borrow a quarter of a million dollars for a shot at a declining market. It seems completely insane to me.
Last edited by JazzOne on Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:25 pm

dakatz wrote:About 25K. The 200K + numbers make me shudder in fear, and the debt isn't even mine


This is why I pull the LRAP sheet over my head...if I can't see the debt, it can't get me!

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:36 pm

JazzOne wrote:
dakatz wrote:About 25K. The 200K + numbers make me shudder in fear, and the debt isn't even mine

+1

I don't how people can borrow a quarter of a million dollars for a shot at a declining market. It seems completely insane to me.


It is, to say the least, a risk. I could only imagine it for t-14 with a solid plan of what the 10 years after LS will look like. Presuming I take advantage of IBR and LRAP my 250k will cost me ~60k. Nothing to sneeze at but manageable in my eyes.

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JazzOne
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby JazzOne » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:40 pm

homestyle28 wrote:
JazzOne wrote:
dakatz wrote:About 25K. The 200K + numbers make me shudder in fear, and the debt isn't even mine

+1

I don't how people can borrow a quarter of a million dollars for a shot at a declining market. It seems completely insane to me.


It is, to say the least, a risk. I could only imagine it for t-14 with a solid plan of what the 10 years after LS will look like. Presuming I take advantage of IBR and LRAP my 250k will cost me ~60k. Nothing to sneeze at but manageable in my eyes.

I've been out of college for 10 years, and the one thing I've learned is that life can do quite a number to your best plans. If you bang out a few kids or burn out at work or become ill, those plans might come crashing down on your head. I wish you luck, and it seems like you have thought this through, but I think most young college grads lack the perspective to make a responsible decision with a quarter of a million dollars on the line.

schnoodle
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby schnoodle » Wed Nov 03, 2010 1:51 pm

Bagel.

theantiscalia
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby theantiscalia » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:02 pm

Mark my words... and I'm a CPA with some financial planning experience... $200k in debt is crushing when there isn't an asset (for example, a house) to back it up. And don't rely on IBR; that could easily be repealed. (One more night like last night and it will be repealed.)

I'd say the upper limit at a GOOD SCHOOL (let's say T30) would be $100,000. If you have to go above that limit, be very careful... that amount of debt can be crushing.

But most importantly, remember how to correctly calculate how much debt you'll actually be in when you graduate. Let's do an example...

Let's say tuition is $40,000, living expenses is $20,000, and you get a $30,000 scholarship. The math looks easy; you'll be $90,000 in debt (assuming no summer job and assuming you max out on living expenses). That math is WRONG. VERY VERY WRONG.
You'll actually be closer to $110,000 in debt. Let me prove this to you. I'm using rough numbers (i.e. you could calculate more accurate weighted average interest rates, take into account bi-annual loan disbursements, compound more frequently, et cetera, but I have an outline to do).

$30,000
+ $60,000 Increased by 4% for Inflation and Tuition Increase Less $30,000 = $32,400
+ $60,000 Increased by 4% for Inflation and Tuition Increase for Two Years Less $30,000 = $34,896
------
$97,296... but wait! You're not done. What about compounded interest!
($30,000 Cost - $8,500 Subsidized Loan) = $21,500 x 1.07 x 1.07 x 1.07 Less $21,500 = $4838 in Interest from Year One
($32,400 Cost - $8,500 Subsidized Loan) = $24,900 x 1.07 x 1.07 Less $24,900 = $3608 in Interest from Year Two
($34,896 - $8,500 Subsidized Loan) = $26,396 x 1.07 Less $26,396 = $1,847 in Interest from Year Three
That means total additional interest of $10,293.

FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF $107,589. And I used CONSERVATIVE interest rate, tuition increase, and compounding estimates. See even if you have a ¾ tuition scholarship, this is going to be ridiculously expensive. And that doesn't even count bar costs and bar study costs in the event you don't get a firm job.

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homestyle28
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby homestyle28 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:09 pm

theantiscalia wrote:Mark my words... and I'm a CPA with some financial planning experience... $200k in debt is crushing when there isn't an asset (for example, a house) to back it up. And don't rely on IBR; that could easily be repealed. (One more night like last night and it will be repealed.)

I'd say the upper limit at a GOOD SCHOOL (let's say T30) would be $100,000. If you have to go above that limit, be very careful... that amount of debt can be crushing.

But most importantly, remember how to correctly calculate how much debt you'll actually be in when you graduate. Let's do an example...

Let's say tuition is $40,000, living expenses is $20,000, and you get a $30,000 scholarship. The math looks easy; you'll be $90,000 in debt (assuming no summer job and assuming you max out on living expenses). That math is WRONG. VERY VERY WRONG.
You'll actually be closer to $110,000 in debt. Let me prove this to you. I'm using rough numbers (i.e. you could calculate more accurate weighted average interest rates, take into account bi-annual loan disbursements, compound more frequently, et cetera, but I have an outline to do).

$30,000
+ $60,000 Increased by 4% for Inflation and Tuition Increase Less $30,000 = $32,400
+ $60,000 Increased by 4% for Inflation and Tuition Increase for Two Years Less $30,000 = $34,896
------
$97,296... but wait! You're not done. What about compounded interest!
($30,000 Cost - $8,500 Subsidized Loan) = $21,500 x 1.07 x 1.07 x 1.07 Less $21,500 = $4838 in Interest from Year One
($32,400 Cost - $8,500 Subsidized Loan) = $24,900 x 1.07 x 1.07 Less $24,900 = $3608 in Interest from Year Two
($34,896 - $8,500 Subsidized Loan) = $26,396 x 1.07 Less $26,396 = $1,847 in Interest from Year Three
That means total additional interest of $10,293.

FOR A GRAND TOTAL OF $107,589. And I used CONSERVATIVE interest rate, tuition increase, and compounding estimates. See even if you have a ¾ tuition scholarship, this is going to be ridiculously expensive. And that doesn't even count bar costs and bar study costs in the event you don't get a firm job.


While I think most of this is credited, I think the "IBR will be repealed" stuff is a little weak. That's not to say that it can't be repealed, but imagine how that pitch goes: "Here's a program to help well-educated people serve the public, let's kill it because we're republicans." It could happened, but you could have ravaging cancer eating you on the inside right now too, we all have to make decisions today based on what we know today and seems likely tomorrow. If IBR were repealed, schools with strong LRAPs will still have strong LRAPS, and would adjust them accordingly.

bdubs
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby bdubs » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:15 pm

USNWR reports that the average debt across the T14 is between $80-130k.

Does this mean that they are averaging 60% of people paying 180-200k and 40% paying close to zero?

theantiscalia
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby theantiscalia » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:16 pm

While I think most of this is credited, I think the "IBR will be repealed" stuff is a little weak. That's not to say that it can't be repealed, but imagine how that pitch goes: "Here's a program to help well-educated people serve the public, let's kill it because we're republicans." It could happened, but you could have ravaging cancer eating you on the inside right now too, we all have to make decisions today based on what we know today and seems likely tomorrow. If IBR were repealed, schools with strong LRAPs will still have strong LRAPS, and would adjust them accordingly.



I'll agree with you; it likely won't be repealed. I'll even further agree that it isn't unreasonable to count on it. The argument, though, is better than you think: "Irresponsible law students are taking out $200,000 in loans they can't repay because we're subsidizing them." That's an obvious place to cut spending if you're in a fiscal squeeze; and let's be honest, law students aren't a large voting block, nor is the public particularly sympathetic towards them.

theantiscalia
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby theantiscalia » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:19 pm

bdubs wrote:USNWR reports that the average debt across the T14 is between $80-130k.

Does this mean that they are averaging 60% of people paying 180-200k and 40% paying close to zero?


No, it doesn't mean that.

In my experience: 15% pay close to zero (rich parents), 50% get large scholarships that offset most of the cost (at least for tuition), and 35% or so pay out the ass. Plus, some people have pre-law school savings (like myself) and a couple of nice summer gigs helps a lot.

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JazzOne
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby JazzOne » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:28 pm

theantiscalia wrote:See even if you have a ¾ tuition scholarship, this is going to be ridiculously expensive.

+1

I have a full scholarship, and I am still uncomfortable with this amount of debt. A few years after I graduated from college, I racked up a few grand in credit card debt. That debt caused me serious stress for a number of years, and it was nowhere near the amounts people are contemplating in this thread. Plus, that debt was completely dischargeable. I wonder if young people really know what it will be like to pay off $200K.

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bk1
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Re: How much debt will u owe upon graduation of law school?

Postby bk1 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 2:34 pm

JazzOne wrote:I've been out of college for 10 years, and the one thing I've learned is that life can do quite a number to your best plans. If you bang out a few kids or burn out at work or become ill, those plans might come crashing down on your head. I wish you luck, and it seems like you have thought this through, but I think most young college grads lack the perspective to make a responsible decision with a quarter of a million dollars on the line.

Abortion. HTH.




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