Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

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RVP11
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby RVP11 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:17 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I wonder if anyone has done a study about the correlation between undergrad prestige and law school performance.

I haven't been able to find one.

Anecdotally, I mostly hang out with people from "lesser" schools. We're the minority at the T14 I attend. Out of my immediate group of friends who didn't attend elite schools for UG, one is probably at or near the top of his class and the rest are at or near the bottom......


Anecdotally, again, my experience has been much different. All three TTTT people I know were in the top quarter and the one from the "worst" school made LR.

My guess is that a study wouldn't find much correlation.

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MrKappus
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Nov 02, 2010 8:24 pm

Most (>50%) of the people at my T30 who went to elite schools are on Law Review.

Edit: before anyone asks, yes...I took 20 minutes, went through my class's facebook, and counted. For my inquiry's purposes, "elite" UGs were T15 universities or T10 LACs.

Also, I'm aware this isn't a peer-reviewed empirical study. I'm just providing a data point, that's all.

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Mike12188
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Mike12188 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:38 pm

MrKappus wrote:Most (>50%) of the people at my T30 who went to elite schools are on Law Review.

Edit: before anyone asks, yes...I took 20 minutes, went through my class's facebook, and counted. For my inquiry's purposes, "elite" UGs were T15 universities or T10 LACs.

Also, I'm aware this isn't a peer-reviewed empirical study. I'm just providing a data point, that's all.


You did it backwards, huh? Elite UG and sub-par LS. Now I see why you're so defensive ITT

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dresden doll
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby dresden doll » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:42 pm

MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby dresden doll » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:45 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Performing poorly and feeling entitled are one thing, but if a wealthy law student graduated top of his class at Penn, would his accomplishments be laughed away as the mere product of a good environment?


LOL, that kid would be interviewed by people from backgrounds damn similar to his. Not only would they not laugh, they'd welcome him as their own. Biglaw is no home of poor disadvantaged kids who scored it big against all odds.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby MrKappus » Wed Nov 03, 2010 7:49 pm

Mike12188 wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Most (>50%) of the people at my T30 who went to elite schools are on Law Review.

Edit: before anyone asks, yes...I took 20 minutes, went through my class's facebook, and counted. For my inquiry's purposes, "elite" UGs were T15 universities or T10 LACs.

Also, I'm aware this isn't a peer-reviewed empirical study. I'm just providing a data point, that's all.


You did it backwards, huh? Elite UG and sub-par LS. Now I see why you're so defensive ITT


Sorry about your tiny pink TTT UG. I'm not sure what about "top UG's provide better options for employment, but high GPAs from anywhere are better for grad school admissions" is defensive. But whatever you say...

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:14 pm

dresden doll wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).


I was never asked a single awkward question about my fourth tier UG in any interview and didn't feel that it held me back at all. Is there something different about Chicago interviewers?

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby MrKappus » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:23 pm

I'm not sure DD said it "held [her] back." I think she just said it's always going to come up. Also, you may not have thought it was "awkward," but I'm sure interviewers asked about your UG in at least some of your interviews. And if they went to Ivies, they probably had some opinions about it. Crappy UG's don't make you a hunchback at OCI, and Ivies won't get you a job you weren't competitive for anyway. It's just a nice soft factor (for Biglaw).

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Noval » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:26 pm

dresden doll wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).


Network, network, the same bullshit answers that people say each time they have to compare Elite vs Average UG Schools.
Network given to Ivy students doesn't mean shit, the key to big jobs is to network by yourself and deal with the fact that you have to prove yourself, even from Yale.


Be more unique, those successful alumnis are getting their asses licked by many students already and the last thing they need is one more retard stalking them for a job, be more unique, Ivy schools don't give out "easy rides" like most people say, it's just a myth.

Proof ? I have friends who went to no name B-Schools and made it into I-Banking quite easily, how ? They knew what to do.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby dresden doll » Wed Nov 03, 2010 8:28 pm

RVP11 wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).


I was never asked a single awkward question about my fourth tier UG in any interview and didn't feel that it held me back at all. Is there something different about Chicago interviewers?


I think it'll never hold back a person with solid grades (and it sounds like that was the case with you, if you don't mind me saying so). But if you're borderline, I think it can and does serve as a kind of a tiebreaker.

Law firms are prestige whores. I wouldn't doubt for a minute that some of them love to list 'double Ivies' when posting attorneys' bios on their website.

And, yeah, my UG came up a lot although no one made too huge of a deal of it.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:21 pm

dresden doll wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).


I go to a well-respected research university. Pitt is no Yale, but it's certainly not a "crappy UG" either.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby rayiner » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:26 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).


I go to a well-respected research university. Pitt is no Yale, but it's certainly not a "crappy UG" either.


Keep telling yourself that.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:30 pm

rayiner wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).


I go to a well-respected research university. Pitt is no Yale, but it's certainly not a "crappy UG" either.


Keep telling yourself that.


I see what you did there.
Last edited by HeavenWood on Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:31 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).


I go to a well-respected research university. Pitt is no Yale, but it's certainly not a "crappy UG" either.


This outs you as a 0L. You'll feel like it's pretty crappy once/if you're at a good law school.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:33 pm

RVP11 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


This.

I went to a crappy UG on a full ride, got a 4.0 and managed to squeeze in plenty of drinking and partying time. But when I graduated, I was part of no alumni network to speak of and no one knew where the fuck I'd gone to school. (And it only continues: nothing like OCI firms asking polite, awkward questions about your UG come interview time). I'd gladly have incurred some debt for an HYP degree had that been an option for me at the time (i.e. had I been less of an idiot in general).


I go to a well-respected research university. Pitt is no Yale, but it's certainly not a "crappy UG" either.


This outs you as a 0L. You'll feel like it's pretty crappy once you're in law school.


My consolation prize: graduating debt free. My self esteem doesn't ride on spending 200k for an ivy league undergraduate education.
Last edited by HeavenWood on Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby RVP11 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:39 pm

HeavenWood wrote:My consolation prize: graduating debt free.


I got that prize, too. But I'm not in denial about a lot of people having gone to much better schools.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:40 pm

RVP11 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:My consolation prize: graduating debt free.


I got that prize, too. But I'm not in denial about a lot of people having gone to much better schools.


Nor am I. I didn't say my school was elite; just respectable. I see no need to bow down to the ivy-league grads wherever I go to law school.
Last edited by HeavenWood on Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby dresden doll » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:48 pm

RVP11 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:My consolation prize: graduating debt free.


I got that prize, too. But I'm not in denial about a lot of people having gone to much better schools.


+1, although I'll concede that there's a difference between a school like NYU UG and a true TTT. I went to a true TTT.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:51 pm

dresden doll wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:My consolation prize: graduating debt free.


I got that prize, too. But I'm not in denial about a lot of people having gone to much better schools.


+1, although I'll concede that there's a difference between a school like NYU UG and a true TTT. I went to a true TTT.


If you came out with a 173 and 4.0, you certainly proved yourself, now, didn't you?

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby dresden doll » Wed Nov 03, 2010 10:53 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:My consolation prize: graduating debt free.


I got that prize, too. But I'm not in denial about a lot of people having gone to much better schools.


+1, although I'll concede that there's a difference between a school like NYU UG and a true TTT. I went to a true TTT.


If you came out with a 173 and 4.0, you certainly proved yourself, now, didn't you?


I think a 4.0 at my school was easily earned, so that takes that out of the equation. I guess you could say my LSAT indicates I'm not an utter moron, but dunno, I wouldn't hinge proof of my own competence off of one standardized exam.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Mike12188 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:05 pm

MrKappus wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Most (>50%) of the people at my T30 who went to elite schools are on Law Review.

Edit: before anyone asks, yes...I took 20 minutes, went through my class's facebook, and counted. For my inquiry's purposes, "elite" UGs were T15 universities or T10 LACs.

Also, I'm aware this isn't a peer-reviewed empirical study. I'm just providing a data point, that's all.


You did it backwards, huh? Elite UG and sub-par LS. Now I see why you're so defensive ITT


Sorry about your tiny pink TTT UG. I'm not sure what about "top UG's provide better options for employment, but high GPAs from anywhere are better for grad school admissions" is defensive. But whatever you say...


1. I don't know what a tiny pink TTT UG school is, but I go to a "Research University" like Pitt (using as example b/c someone else mentioned it in here), I wouldn't call it tiny.
2. This thread was never about options for employment out of undergrad. You made it about this. But I guess if I end up at a T30 I guess I'll be very bitter too. I would think for such a "prestige" whore you would have prepared for the LSAT better.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:08 pm

Mike12188 wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Most (>50%) of the people at my T30 who went to elite schools are on Law Review.

Edit: before anyone asks, yes...I took 20 minutes, went through my class's facebook, and counted. For my inquiry's purposes, "elite" UGs were T15 universities or T10 LACs.

Also, I'm aware this isn't a peer-reviewed empirical study. I'm just providing a data point, that's all.


You did it backwards, huh? Elite UG and sub-par LS. Now I see why you're so defensive ITT


Sorry about your tiny pink TTT UG. I'm not sure what about "top UG's provide better options for employment, but high GPAs from anywhere are better for grad school admissions" is defensive. But whatever you say...


1. I don't know what a tiny pink TTT UG school is, but I go to a "Research University" like Pitt (using as example b/c someone else mentioned it in here), I wouldn't call it tiny.
2. This thread was never about options for employment out of undergrad. You made it about this. But I guess if I end up at a T30 I guess I'll be very bitter too. I would think for such a "prestige" whore you would have prepared for the LSAT better.


Everyone here needs to stop taking everything so personally, myself included.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby MrKappus » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:11 pm

Mike12188 wrote:1. I don't know what a tiny pink TTT UG school is, but I go to a "Research University" like Pitt (using as example b/c someone else mentioned it in here), I wouldn't call it tiny.
2. This thread was never about options for employment out of undergrad. You made it about this. But I guess if I end up at a T30 I guess I'll be very bitter too. I would think for such a "prestige" whore you would have prepared for the LSAT better.


1. Cool story, bro.
2. This thread's about relevance of UG quality. To admissions, it's virtually irrelevant, which I said at the outset. But I felt it important to note those things to which it is relevant, and employment's one of those things. I'm not bitter b/c I'm lucky and things worked out for me, despite the fact that my LS's never going to knock anyone's socks off. Get the chip off your shoulder and stop creating straw men to knock over. It's tired.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby JOThompson » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:21 pm

UG prestige is almost univerisally irrelevant, but some adcomms have been known to grant tiny boosts to graduates of elite undergrads. See Montauk's book on admissions.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Mike12188 » Wed Nov 03, 2010 11:24 pm

MrKappus wrote:
Mike12188 wrote:1. I don't know what a tiny pink TTT UG school is, but I go to a "Research University" like Pitt (using as example b/c someone else mentioned it in here), I wouldn't call it tiny.
2. This thread was never about options for employment out of undergrad. You made it about this. But I guess if I end up at a T30 I guess I'll be very bitter too. I would think for such a "prestige" whore you would have prepared for the LSAT better.


1. Cool story, bro.
2. This thread's about relevance of UG quality. To admissions, it's virtually irrelevant, which I said at the outset. But I felt it important to note those things to which it is relevant, and employment's one of those things. I'm not bitter b/c I'm lucky and things worked out for me, despite the fact that my LS's never going to knock anyone's socks off. Get the chip off your shoulder and stop creating straw men to knock over. It's tired.


Thanks brah I have no chip. But I think you're overplaying the role of UG prestige because of your LS situation. Keeping class rank and everything else equal, I'm pretty sure the kid going to a t14 and a TTTT UG is going to have better job prospects than someone at a T30. I doubt a recruiter is gonna be like nah fuck that top 1/4 kid from UMich, we got Mr. Kappus over here who is top 1/4 at William and Mary BUT he has a Sociology degree from Cornell




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