Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

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Patriot1208
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:53 pm

Noval wrote:
MrKappus wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


You don't have banking/consulting jobs open to you when you're a liberal arts major.


Hahahahaha of COURSE you do. Nearly all of my banking/consulting friends did liberal arts majors, and I have a lot of 'em.



True, anyone can apply to IB or Management Consulting these days, but if you're not a typical top student from a top business school, you'll have to prove yourself and network a lot, but it's definitely possible as i know friends who went to no name schools and get "decent" GPAs in programs like History or Economy and they got in because they were persistent, the point is to get respect and attention from the recruiting staff, let the magic do the rest.


In fact, Investment Banks are starting to dislike the top students from rich families at top schools, they obviously have no sense of reality, they are starting to look at poor students who are ready to fight till their last breath in the jungle to get things done, not the same bunch that entered HBS with daddy's network and money.


Not sure how investment banks are going to know a families income most of the time. In my experience, no interviewer or networking contact has asked for my families income.

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Noval
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Noval » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:57 pm

[/quote]Not sure how investment banks are going to know a families income most of the time. In my experience, no interviewer or networking contact has asked for my families income.[/quote]

Most will judge you on where you're from and you will have to tell them your story.
I guess that the smart student saying that he got to fight for everything in his life will be better standing than the rich & smart student who never really had a challenge in his life as everything was easy for him.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:58 pm

Noval wrote:Most will judge you on where you're from and you will have to tell them your story.
I guess that the smart student saying that he got to fight for everything in his life will be better standing than the rich & smart student who never really had a challenge in his life as everything was easy for him.


Do law firms prefer poor people too?

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Unemployed » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:59 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
Noval wrote:True, anyone can apply to IB or Management Consulting these days, but if you're not a typical top student from a top business school, you'll have to prove yourself and network a lot, but it's definitely possible as i know friends who went to no name schools and get "decent" GPAs in programs like History or Economy and they got in because they were persistent, the point is to get respect and attention from the recruiting staff, let the magic do the rest.


In fact, Investment Banks are starting to dislike the top students from rich families at top schools, they obviously have no sense of reality, they are starting to look at poor students who are ready to fight till their last breath in the jungle to get things done, not the same bunch that entered HBS with daddy's network and money.


Not sure how investment banks are going to know a families income most of the time. In my experience, no interviewer or networking contact has asked for my families income.


If they have to ask, it's not going to help anyway. :lol:

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:05 pm

Ragged wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:Not defensive, just a little exasperated that the same points have to be rehashed and yet people don't seem to understand. Maybe I read to far into your posts but I thought there was a clear indication that you were suggesting that it was easier just because the average gpa was higher. And no, my GPA isn't lousy, but unfortunately, i'm also not going to Penn.



Yea, I agree. It is easier to get good grades at prestigious schools. Good point.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


If you read the posts from the few of us who have experienced both sides, you would know that we all agree that isn't the case. Honestly, the only people who make the argument that you are making are those butt hurt about their situation and who don't even have the experience to make form an opinion on the matter.


Relax man, I'm just fucking with you. :P

I went to a large public but a very mediocre school and kinda glad I did since it was virtually free for me. Really don't see how that's gonna hurt me later on. Accounting is accounting is accounting... no matter where you go.


Accounting is one of those that, because it is in such demand, can get you a great job no matter where you went to school. Honestly, undergrad should be a personal decision because it involves a lot of variables that will change for a lot of people. It's not like law school where you should always go (almost anyways) to the best ranked school. But the people that blindly argue for one side or the other are generally just trying to ease their insecurities. And to not even acknowledge a difference is just ludicrous.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:06 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Noval wrote:Most will judge you on where you're from and you will have to tell them your story.
I guess that the smart student saying that he got to fight for everything in his life will be better standing than the rich & smart student who never really had a challenge in his life as everything was easy for him.


Do law firms prefer poor people too?

Any kid who makes it clear that he has had it easy shouldn't get hired anyways. Even if you have to exaggerate, you need to show some sense of competency outside of your parents grasps.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:13 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Noval wrote:Most will judge you on where you're from and you will have to tell them your story.
I guess that the smart student saying that he got to fight for everything in his life will be better standing than the rich & smart student who never really had a challenge in his life as everything was easy for him.


Do law firms prefer poor people too?

Any kid who makes it clear that he has had it easy shouldn't get hired anyways. Even if you have to exaggerate, you need to show some sense of competency outside of your parents grasps.


Performing poorly and feeling entitled are one thing, but if a wealthy law student graduated top of his class at Penn, would his accomplishments be laughed away as the mere product of a good environment?

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 4:34 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Noval wrote:Most will judge you on where you're from and you will have to tell them your story.
I guess that the smart student saying that he got to fight for everything in his life will be better standing than the rich & smart student who never really had a challenge in his life as everything was easy for him.


Do law firms prefer poor people too?

Any kid who makes it clear that he has had it easy shouldn't get hired anyways. Even if you have to exaggerate, you need to show some sense of competency outside of your parents grasps.


Performing poorly and feeling entitled are one thing, but if a wealthy law student graduated top of his class at Penn, would his accomplishments be laughed away as the mere product of a good environment?


In my limited experience (i'm not in law school and am just recently started going through consulting and Ibanking recruiting) I would say the recruiters would not think that. I'm not sure how they would really know your parents income anyways. The majority of kids at penn, or any other ivy, are on financial aid anyways.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby fugitivejammer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:41 pm

agreed w/ above poster. i have a few friends in IB and actually did a few interviews myself for IB, and family background had NOTHING to do w/ ANYTHING for ANYONE. Obviously that's just my experience and ppl in my network.

im sure that u guys r right that if all else being equal, the recruiters would pick the person showing the most character through life experience and overcoming adversity blah blah blah, but i think u r overstating it a bit. the ppl i know who got IB jobs r pretty much - great networkers, high energy/aptitude type of ppl, and generally came from pretty good schools. all middle-class. nothing crazy or "poor" about them, jsut the things ud expect
Last edited by fugitivejammer on Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby paratactical » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:42 pm

Not checking your quotes is failtastic.
Last edited by paratactical on Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby fugitivejammer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:45 pm

while for Law schools, it seems UG institution is meaningless unless its HYP, i think for IBanking, UG institution matters a WHOLE lot more. from my experience, i've spoken w/ recruiters from top IB that literally told me that they "don't recruit" from certain schools in my region. doesn't mean u can't get to that firm just cuz u graduated from those schools, but u have a hell of an obstacle u need to overcome by being a networking wizard...

tbf, this firm is particularly selective and only recruited from the very top schools in the region

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby fugitivejammer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:48 pm

paratactical wrote:
fugitivejammer wrote:quote="Noval"]
Most will judge you on where you're from and you will have to tell them your story.
I guess that the smart student saying that he got to fight for everything in his life will be better standing than the rich & smart student who never really had a challenge in his life as everything was easy for him.


Performing poorly and feeling entitled are one thing, but if a wealthy law student graduated top of his class at Penn, would his accomplishments be laughed away as the mere product of a good environment?


In my limited experience (i'm not in law school and am just recently started going through consulting and Ibanking recruiting) I would say the recruiters would not think that. I'm not sure how they would really know your parents income anyways. The majority of kids at penn, or any other ivy, are on financial aid anyways.[/quote][/quote]


agreed w/ above poster. i have a few friends in IB and actually did a few interviews myself for IB, and family background had NOTHING to do w/ ANYTHING for ANYONE. Obviously that's just my experience and ppl in my network.

im sure that u guys r right that if all else being equal, the recruiters would pick the person showing the most character through life experience and overcoming adversity blah blah blah, but i think u r overstating it a bit. the ppl i know who got IB jobs r pretty much - great networkers, high energy/aptitude type of ppl, and generally came from pretty good schools. all middle-class. nothing crazy or "poor" about them, jsut the things ud expect[/quote]

I bet employers also tend to chose people that don't use single letters as words, that understand basic grammar and that are able to figure out simple things like quote functions on a message board.[/quote]

u r actually correct - i hear recruiters frequently visit random online forums to ensure ppl aren't abbreviating words and using proper grammer cuz honestly....online forums r where ppl SHOULD and ARE using their very best writing abilities which is critical in IB

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby fugitivejammer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 5:52 pm

paratactical wrote:Not checking your quotes is failtastic.



thanks paratactical ;) im glad someone on this god forsaken forum has the decency to keep our online grammer and such in check. it's extremely important to make our posts clear!

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby czelede » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:02 pm

.
Last edited by czelede on Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby czelede » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:02 pm

fugitivejammer wrote:while for Law schools, it seems UG institution is meaningless unless its HYP, i think for IBanking, UG institution matters a WHOLE lot more. from my experience, i've spoken w/ recruiters from top IB that literally told me that they "don't recruit" from certain schools in my region. doesn't mean u can't get to that firm just cuz u graduated from those schools, but u have a hell of an obstacle u need to overcome by being a networking wizard...

tbf, this firm is particularly selective and only recruited from the very top schools in the region


I agree with this, and must add that this is also true for (top) engineering companies and management consulting. While it is possible to score a job without a good UG on your resume, its a lot harder as almost all do entry level recruiting through on-campus fairs, "OCI", symplicity, and the like. I feel like they are a lot more focused on specific program rankings as opposed to "overall prestige", which is quite the same for law school (although lets be serious, schools with great overall prestige/lay prestige have great law schools as well). But where your undergrad might boost you in law school hiring would apply to the "overall prestige" concept I suppose.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:11 pm

czelede wrote:
fugitivejammer wrote:while for Law schools, it seems UG institution is meaningless unless its HYP, i think for IBanking, UG institution matters a WHOLE lot more. from my experience, i've spoken w/ recruiters from top IB that literally told me that they "don't recruit" from certain schools in my region. doesn't mean u can't get to that firm just cuz u graduated from those schools, but u have a hell of an obstacle u need to overcome by being a networking wizard...

tbf, this firm is particularly selective and only recruited from the very top schools in the region


I agree with this, and must add that this is also true for (top) engineering companies and management consulting. While it is possible to score a job without a good UG on your resume, its a lot harder as almost all do entry level recruiting through on-campus fairs, "OCI", symplicity, and the like. I feel like they are a lot more focused on specific program rankings as opposed to "overall prestige", which is quite the same for law school (although lets be serious, schools with great overall prestige/lay prestige have great law schools as well). But where your undergrad might boost you in law school hiring would apply to the "overall prestige" concept I suppose.


Engineering as a whole isn't as prestige whorish, but top companies are. Also many companies look towards regional hires more too. It's just engineering prestige is different than regular undergrad. Also prestige even gets more segregated into specialties.

HYP engineering isn't that great. State schools are much more respected. Schools like Illinois and Michigan are clearly better than ivy league engineering.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby fugitivejammer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:16 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
czelede wrote:
fugitivejammer wrote:while for Law schools, it seems UG institution is meaningless unless its HYP, i think for IBanking, UG institution matters a WHOLE lot more. from my experience, i've spoken w/ recruiters from top IB that literally told me that they "don't recruit" from certain schools in my region. doesn't mean u can't get to that firm just cuz u graduated from those schools, but u have a hell of an obstacle u need to overcome by being a networking wizard...

tbf, this firm is particularly selective and only recruited from the very top schools in the region


I agree with this, and must add that this is also true for (top) engineering companies and management consulting. While it is possible to score a job without a good UG on your resume, its a lot harder as almost all do entry level recruiting through on-campus fairs, "OCI", symplicity, and the like. I feel like they are a lot more focused on specific program rankings as opposed to "overall prestige", which is quite the same for law school (although lets be serious, schools with great overall prestige/lay prestige have great law schools as well). But where your undergrad might boost you in law school hiring would apply to the "overall prestige" concept I suppose.


Engineering as a whole isn't as prestige whorish, but top companies are. Also many companies look towards regional hires more too. It's just engineering prestige is different than regular undergrad. Also prestige even gets more segregated into specialties.

HYP engineering isn't that great. State schools are much more respected. Schools like Illinois and Michigan are clearly better than ivy league engineering.



u hafta look out for the Caltech and MIT ppl >.<

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:22 pm

fugitivejammer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
czelede wrote:
fugitivejammer wrote:while for Law schools, it seems UG institution is meaningless unless its HYP, i think for IBanking, UG institution matters a WHOLE lot more. from my experience, i've spoken w/ recruiters from top IB that literally told me that they "don't recruit" from certain schools in my region. doesn't mean u can't get to that firm just cuz u graduated from those schools, but u have a hell of an obstacle u need to overcome by being a networking wizard...

tbf, this firm is particularly selective and only recruited from the very top schools in the region


I agree with this, and must add that this is also true for (top) engineering companies and management consulting. While it is possible to score a job without a good UG on your resume, its a lot harder as almost all do entry level recruiting through on-campus fairs, "OCI", symplicity, and the like. I feel like they are a lot more focused on specific program rankings as opposed to "overall prestige", which is quite the same for law school (although lets be serious, schools with great overall prestige/lay prestige have great law schools as well). But where your undergrad might boost you in law school hiring would apply to the "overall prestige" concept I suppose.


Engineering as a whole isn't as prestige whorish, but top companies are. Also many companies look towards regional hires more too. It's just engineering prestige is different than regular undergrad. Also prestige even gets more segregated into specialties.

HYP engineering isn't that great. State schools are much more respected. Schools like Illinois and Michigan are clearly better than ivy league engineering.



u hafta look out for the Caltech and MIT ppl >.<


For sure. Though Stanford is better than CalTech unless you are talking physics where then it's a race.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:26 pm

fugitivejammer wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
czelede wrote:
fugitivejammer wrote:while for Law schools, it seems UG institution is meaningless unless its HYP, i think for IBanking, UG institution matters a WHOLE lot more. from my experience, i've spoken w/ recruiters from top IB that literally told me that they "don't recruit" from certain schools in my region. doesn't mean u can't get to that firm just cuz u graduated from those schools, but u have a hell of an obstacle u need to overcome by being a networking wizard...

tbf, this firm is particularly selective and only recruited from the very top schools in the region


I agree with this, and must add that this is also true for (top) engineering companies and management consulting. While it is possible to score a job without a good UG on your resume, its a lot harder as almost all do entry level recruiting through on-campus fairs, "OCI", symplicity, and the like. I feel like they are a lot more focused on specific program rankings as opposed to "overall prestige", which is quite the same for law school (although lets be serious, schools with great overall prestige/lay prestige have great law schools as well). But where your undergrad might boost you in law school hiring would apply to the "overall prestige" concept I suppose.


Engineering as a whole isn't as prestige whorish, but top companies are. Also many companies look towards regional hires more too. It's just engineering prestige is different than regular undergrad. Also prestige even gets more segregated into specialties.

HYP engineering isn't that great. State schools are much more respected. Schools like Illinois and Michigan are clearly better than ivy league engineering.



u hafta look out for the Caltech Stanford and MIT ppl >.<

Caltech is a pre-PhD breeding ground.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:28 pm

CalTech is also too small to be relevant in industry. I've never even met a CalTech grad. That might be midwest bias though.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:32 pm

Desert Fox wrote:CalTech is also too small to be relevant in industry. I've never even met a CalTech grad. That might be midwest bias though.

Yeah they have fewer than 200 B.S. graduates a year, of which maybe 20-30 are in any given engineering field, of which maybe 10 get a job in industry, of which maybe 2-3 go outside of California.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby fugitivejammer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:37 pm

im_blue wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:CalTech is also too small to be relevant in industry. I've never even met a CalTech grad. That might be midwest bias though.

Yeah they have fewer than 200 B.S. graduates a year, of which maybe 20-30 are in any given engineering field, of which maybe 10 are looking for a job in industry, of which maybe 2-3 go outside of California.



i know a few caltechies and they r doin some bad ass engineering/physics shit. west coast though so yea - prolly too small to b relevant in the midwest.

its still considered to b one of the top schools in the nation for engineering though, despite its size - dont get that confused. stanford/berk ftw for sure tho.

i just read ur post on another thread, DesertFox - I too am an engineering failure lol - did u go to Illinois UG for eng?

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:39 pm

fugitivejammer wrote:
im_blue wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:CalTech is also too small to be relevant in industry. I've never even met a CalTech grad. That might be midwest bias though.

Yeah they have fewer than 200 B.S. graduates a year, of which maybe 20-30 are in any given engineering field, of which maybe 10 are looking for a job in industry, of which maybe 2-3 go outside of California.



i know a few caltechies and they r doin some bad ass engineering/physics shit. west coast though so yea - prolly too small to b relevant in the midwest.

its still considered to b one of the top schools in the nation for engineering though, despite its size - dont get that confused. stanford/berk ftw for sure tho.

i just read ur post on another thread, DesertFox - I too am an engineering failure lol - did u go to Illinois UG for eng?


Yea. '08

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Noval
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Noval » Tue Nov 02, 2010 6:40 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:In my limited experience (i'm not in law school and am just recently started going through consulting and Ibanking recruiting) I would say the recruiters would not think that. I'm not sure how they would really know your parents income anyways. The majority of kids at penn, or any other ivy, are on financial aid anyways.


I'd say that since Big law firms went into rigorous changes through the past years, they have the old IB mentality:

Top student from Top school = Best choice.
Top student from Shit School = Bad idea.

Like IB, recruitment is slowly changing in BigLaw, the mentality of the Partners is becoming more open and students who did well on low ranked schools should have a fair chance to enter BigLaw, this won't happen tomorow though, think of IB 10 years ago, it was impossible to break in if you weren't a Baker Scholar from HBS, now a simple History major can get in if he knows what to do.

That's what one of the ex-senior partners at my firm told me, he went in-house with one of the Bulge Brackets in NYC.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:27 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I wonder if anyone has done a study about the correlation between undergrad prestige and law school performance.

I haven't been able to find one.

Anecdotally, I mostly hang out with people from "lesser" schools. We're the minority at the T14 I attend. Out of my immediate group of friends who didn't attend elite schools for UG, one is probably at or near the top of his class and the rest are at or near the bottom......




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