Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

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pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:41 pm

Is it that much harder to get better grades at a good school v. mediocre school? I mean, it's not curved like LS.....

HeavenWood
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:42 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:Is it that much harder to get better grades at a good school v. mediocre school? I mean, it's not curved like LS.....


It all depends on your major and grade inflation, which tends to be more pronounced at prestigious schools.

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IAFG
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby IAFG » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:46 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:Is it that much harder to get better grades at a good school v. mediocre school? I mean, it's not curved like LS.....

at iowa you just had to know which classes were easy As and know your own talents. i could have gotten a 4.0+ if i'd made GPA my primary goal. there were a couple departments that were famous for giving out As like candy, and profs who I don't think knew where the B button was on their keyboard.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:47 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:Is it that much harder to get better grades at a good school v. mediocre school? I mean, it's not curved like LS.....


It all depends on your major and grade inflation, which tends to be more pronounced at prestigious schools.

Yeah, as others have mentioned I'd guess major determines the difficulty of your experience far more than school.

I went to what most here would consider a TTT for undergrad. I'm not blown away by my LS classmates who hail from Ivy League schools.....the main difference v. my old classmates seems to be the number of zeroes in their parents paychecks. *shrug* Not to say my classmates aren't awesome and smart (they are) I just don't know how much more awesome or more intelligent they are than my old classmates.

Hard to make any informed guess on difficulty though since I've only attended the mediocre state school and CC for undergraduate courses.

bigben
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby bigben » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:50 pm

dresden doll wrote:
notanumber wrote:Having been a student at a local community college, a good public school, and a private elite university I agree with this post 100%. The only possible exception is that in community college I occasionally had professors whose mantra was "I'm a bitter jerk and will fail all of my students just because I can." I never ran into that at the public or private universities. But overall, it was a hell of a lot easier to be a standout student and get very good grades without much effort at the "lower" ranked schools.


Funny how the people that actually did experience lower and higher ranked UGs say what I always supposed must be correct. If it weren't for gigantic chips on the shoulders from those that have a hard time admitting their 4.0s from local schools aren't worth much (excepting science degrees 'cause those are always damn tough), I'm pretty sure it'd be conventional wisdom that average difficulty of a class at Harvard >>> average difficulty of the equivalent class at bumfuck UG.

And no kidding that As tend to be more common in better schools. I bet I'd give out more As too if I were teaching a class of uberambitious high school valedictorians who never saw a B in their lives.

The truth is that it varies. I went to one college that was like being in the special ed classroom. A complete joke. Easier than my easy high school. You could get a 4.0 there in one afternoon per week total. Then I went to completely unknown LAC and found it impossible to crack 3.5ish without putting it a lot of hours. Which I was too busy/lazy to do. That's why GPA is a fairly useless metric and there is not much of an effort to equalize across different schools/programs.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:52 pm

bigben wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
notanumber wrote:Having been a student at a local community college, a good public school, and a private elite university I agree with this post 100%. The only possible exception is that in community college I occasionally had professors whose mantra was "I'm a bitter jerk and will fail all of my students just because I can." I never ran into that at the public or private universities. But overall, it was a hell of a lot easier to be a standout student and get very good grades without much effort at the "lower" ranked schools.


Funny how the people that actually did experience lower and higher ranked UGs say what I always supposed must be correct. If it weren't for gigantic chips on the shoulders from those that have a hard time admitting their 4.0s from local schools aren't worth much (excepting science degrees 'cause those are always damn tough), I'm pretty sure it'd be conventional wisdom that average difficulty of a class at Harvard >>> average difficulty of the equivalent class at bumfuck UG.

And no kidding that As tend to be more common in better schools. I bet I'd give out more As too if I were teaching a class of uberambitious high school valedictorians who never saw a B in their lives.

The truth is that it varies. I went to one college that was like being in the special ed classroom. A complete joke. Easier than my easy high school. You could get a 4.0 there in one afternoon per week total. Then I went to completely unknown LAC and found it impossible to crack 3.5ish without putting it a lot of hours. Which I was too busy/lazy to do. That's why GPA is a fairly useless metric and there is not much of an effort to equalize across different schools/programs.

I hear LACs are pretty much the last bastion of honest grading.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 10:57 pm

pasteurizedmilk wrote:I hear LACs are pretty much the last bastion of honest grading.


I heard the complete opposite.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:01 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:I hear LACs are pretty much the last bastion of honest grading.


I heard the complete opposite.


http://www.gradeinflation.com/

I'm not sure how accurate this website is, but according to their findings, "The schools with the highest rates of contemporary inflation tend to be moderately selective liberal arts colleges."

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:04 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
pasteurizedmilk wrote:I hear LACs are pretty much the last bastion of honest grading.


I heard the complete opposite.


http://www.gradeinflation.com/

I'm not sure how accurate this website is, but according to their findings, "The schools with the highest rates of contemporary inflation tend to be moderately selective liberal arts colleges."

Wow - I must be wrong. Maybe I just read about a few LACs (i.e. Saint Anselm) making changes and generalized too much. I guess my TTT UG education is showing. :lol:

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JG Hall
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby JG Hall » Mon Nov 01, 2010 11:07 pm

tl, dr on the thread, but most people don't decide to go to college when they're 17 based on getting into law school.

try getting a job at bain or goldman from a ttt ug.

also, undergrad helps with jobs, if for no other reason than you're more likely to run into interviewers who went to your alma mater. also, it looks prettier on your resume.

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby RVP11 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 7:54 am

JG Hall wrote:also, undergrad helps with jobs, if for no other reason than you're more likely to run into interviewers who went to your alma mater


Again, like in law school admissions, I think UG only helps you get a BigLaw job if you went to HYPS or the like. It didn't seem like interviewers cared at all about my (ultimate TTTT) UG except as the occasional conversation piece. And don't underestimate the number of OCI interviewers who went to TTTT UGs themselves.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:02 am

I just want to point out, again, the stupidity in the assertion that a higher average GPA means that it is easier to get a higher grade. Heavenwood, I don't know if you did well on the LSAT, but you are making some damn stupid assumptions.

BTW, maybe not for law school, but for almost everything else, a 3.5 from Penn is > than a 3.9 from Pitt. You have also clearly shown you don't know anything about hiring because you can get a good business job from any major if you sell yourself right in the interview. I just met two brand new consultants at bain, one was a medieval studies major and the other was a chinese major. Sure, there are a lot of wharton type grads too, but you can get these jobs from any major.
Last edited by Patriot1208 on Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MrKappus
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby MrKappus » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:07 am

RVP11 wrote:
JG Hall wrote:also, undergrad helps with jobs, if for no other reason than you're more likely to run into interviewers who went to your alma mater


Again, like in law school admissions, I think UG only helps you get a BigLaw job if you went to HYPS or the like. It didn't seem like interviewers cared at all about my (ultimate TTTT) UG except as the occasional conversation piece. And don't underestimate the number of OCI interviewers who went to TTTT UGs themselves.


False, based on my experience. And I had upwards of 40 screening interviews, and very few of my BigLaw interviewers went to "TTTT UGs."

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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby HeavenWood » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:51 am

Patriot1208 wrote:I just want to point out, again, the stupidity in the assertion that a higher average GPA means that it is easier to get a higher grade. Heavenwood, I don't know if you did well on the LSAT, but you are making some damn stupid assumptions.

BTW, maybe not for law school, but for almost everything else, a 3.5 from Penn is > than a 3.9 from Pitt. You have also clearly shown you don't know anything about hiring because you can get a good business job from any major if you sell yourself right in the interview. I just met two brand new consultants at bain, one was a medieval studies major and the other was a chinese major. Sure, there are a lot of wharton type grads too, but you can get these jobs from any major.


Defensive much?

Calm down. I NEVER said a higher UG average GPA means that it is necessarily easier to get a higher grade at that UG. I did say that for the most part, there is more grade inflation at more prestigious universities, which can make comparing GPAs from different institutions slightly complicated. That's why there is the LSAT, which I did just fine on.

What's wrong, Patriot? Get a lousy GPA from a top school?

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Patriot1208
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 12:18 pm

HeavenWood wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:I just want to point out, again, the stupidity in the assertion that a higher average GPA means that it is easier to get a higher grade. Heavenwood, I don't know if you did well on the LSAT, but you are making some damn stupid assumptions.

BTW, maybe not for law school, but for almost everything else, a 3.5 from Penn is > than a 3.9 from Pitt. You have also clearly shown you don't know anything about hiring because you can get a good business job from any major if you sell yourself right in the interview. I just met two brand new consultants at bain, one was a medieval studies major and the other was a chinese major. Sure, there are a lot of wharton type grads too, but you can get these jobs from any major.


Defensive much?

Calm down. I NEVER said a higher UG average GPA means that it is necessarily easier to get a higher grade at that UG. I did say that for the most part, there is more grade inflation at more prestigious universities, which can make comparing GPAs from different institutions slightly complicated. That's why there is the LSAT, which I did just fine on.

What's wrong, Patriot? Get a lousy GPA from a top school?


Not defensive, just a little exasperated that the same points have to be rehashed and yet people don't seem to understand. Maybe I read to far into your posts but I thought there was a clear indication that you were suggesting that it was easier just because the average gpa was higher. And no, my GPA isn't lousy, but unfortunately, i'm also not going to Penn.

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KMaine
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby KMaine » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:15 pm

[/quote]Wow - I must be wrong. Maybe I just read about a few LACs (i.e. Saint Anselm) making changes and generalized too much. I guess my TTT UG education is showing. :lol:[/quote]

One of the first mentions ever of my UG on TLS! Did St. A's make it easier or harder to get good grades? When I graduated (it's been a few years), I was #6 in my class with a 3.61.

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Ragged
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Ragged » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:45 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:I just want to point out, again, the stupidity in the assertion that a higher average GPA means that it is easier to get a higher grade. Heavenwood, I don't know if you did well on the LSAT, but you are making some damn stupid assumptions.

BTW, maybe not for law school, but for almost everything else, a 3.5 from Penn is > than a 3.9 from Pitt. You have also clearly shown you don't know anything about hiring because you can get a good business job from any major if you sell yourself right in the interview. I just met two brand new consultants at bain, one was a medieval studies major and the other was a chinese major. Sure, there are a lot of wharton type grads too, but you can get these jobs from any major.


Defensive much?

Calm down. I NEVER said a higher UG average GPA means that it is necessarily easier to get a higher grade at that UG. I did say that for the most part, there is more grade inflation at more prestigious universities, which can make comparing GPAs from different institutions slightly complicated. That's why there is the LSAT, which I did just fine on.

What's wrong, Patriot? Get a lousy GPA from a top school?


Not defensive, just a little exasperated that the same points have to be rehashed and yet people don't seem to understand. Maybe I read to far into your posts but I thought there was a clear indication that you were suggesting that it was easier just because the average gpa was higher. And no, my GPA isn't lousy, but unfortunately, i'm also not going to Penn.



Yea, I agree. It is easier to get good grades at prestigious schools. Good point.

09042014
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:47 pm

I wonder if anyone has done a study about the correlation between undergrad prestige and law school performance.

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im_blue
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby im_blue » Tue Nov 02, 2010 1:51 pm

Dean Pless at Illinois has said that top UG grads with good GPAs (which for them means > 3.8 ) have outperformed their LSAT, so he has been admitting more such applicants.

pasteurizedmilk
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby pasteurizedmilk » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:19 pm

MrKappus wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
JG Hall wrote:also, undergrad helps with jobs, if for no other reason than you're more likely to run into interviewers who went to your alma mater


Again, like in law school admissions, I think UG only helps you get a BigLaw job if you went to HYPS or the like. It didn't seem like interviewers cared at all about my (ultimate TTTT) UG except as the occasional conversation piece. And don't underestimate the number of OCI interviewers who went to TTTT UGs themselves.


False, based on my experience. And I had upwards of 40 screening interviews, and very few of my BigLaw interviewers went to "TTTT UGs."

Yeah most people I met (and profiles I perused) were double Ivies or equivalent.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:32 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I wonder if anyone has done a study about the correlation between undergrad prestige and law school performance.


Prestige metric based on:

USNWR rank?
NY Associate "prestige score?"
Amount of ivy on ivory towers, by volume?
Number of cobblestones on walkways?

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Patriot1208
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Patriot1208 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:34 pm

Ragged wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:I just want to point out, again, the stupidity in the assertion that a higher average GPA means that it is easier to get a higher grade. Heavenwood, I don't know if you did well on the LSAT, but you are making some damn stupid assumptions.

BTW, maybe not for law school, but for almost everything else, a 3.5 from Penn is > than a 3.9 from Pitt. You have also clearly shown you don't know anything about hiring because you can get a good business job from any major if you sell yourself right in the interview. I just met two brand new consultants at bain, one was a medieval studies major and the other was a chinese major. Sure, there are a lot of wharton type grads too, but you can get these jobs from any major.


Defensive much?

Calm down. I NEVER said a higher UG average GPA means that it is necessarily easier to get a higher grade at that UG. I did say that for the most part, there is more grade inflation at more prestigious universities, which can make comparing GPAs from different institutions slightly complicated. That's why there is the LSAT, which I did just fine on.

What's wrong, Patriot? Get a lousy GPA from a top school?


Not defensive, just a little exasperated that the same points have to be rehashed and yet people don't seem to understand. Maybe I read to far into your posts but I thought there was a clear indication that you were suggesting that it was easier just because the average gpa was higher. And no, my GPA isn't lousy, but unfortunately, i'm also not going to Penn.



Yea, I agree. It is easier to get good grades at prestigious schools. Good point.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


If you read the posts from the few of us who have experienced both sides, you would know that we all agree that isn't the case. Honestly, the only people who make the argument that you are making are those butt hurt about their situation and who don't even have the experience to make form an opinion on the matter.

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Noval
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Noval » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:50 pm

MrKappus wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
MrKappus wrote:Yeah, I guess having banking/consulting jobs open to you and a huge network of extremely successful alums would get me down in the dumps too. I'm not saying you can't be proud of your Pitt 3.9, but I'm pretty sure most of your 3.5@Penn friends wouldn't trade places w/ you.


You don't have banking/consulting jobs open to you when you're a liberal arts major.


Hahahahaha of COURSE you do. Nearly all of my banking/consulting friends did liberal arts majors, and I have a lot of 'em.



True, anyone can apply to IB or Management Consulting these days, but if you're not a typical top student from a top business school, you'll have to prove yourself and network a lot, but it's definitely possible as i know friends who went to no name schools and get "decent" GPAs in programs like History or Economy and they got in because they were persistent, the point is to get respect and attention from the recruiting staff, let the magic do the rest.


In fact, Investment Banks are starting to dislike the top students from rich families at top schools, they obviously have no sense of reality, they are starting to look at poor students who are ready to fight till their last breath in the jungle to get things done, not the same bunch that entered HBS with daddy's network and money.

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Ragged
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby Ragged » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:52 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
Ragged wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
HeavenWood wrote:
Defensive much?

Calm down. I NEVER said a higher UG average GPA means that it is necessarily easier to get a higher grade at that UG. I did say that for the most part, there is more grade inflation at more prestigious universities, which can make comparing GPAs from different institutions slightly complicated. That's why there is the LSAT, which I did just fine on.

What's wrong, Patriot? Get a lousy GPA from a top school?


Not defensive, just a little exasperated that the same points have to be rehashed and yet people don't seem to understand. Maybe I read to far into your posts but I thought there was a clear indication that you were suggesting that it was easier just because the average gpa was higher. And no, my GPA isn't lousy, but unfortunately, i'm also not going to Penn.



Yea, I agree. It is easier to get good grades at prestigious schools. Good point.



:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


If you read the posts from the few of us who have experienced both sides, you would know that we all agree that isn't the case. Honestly, the only people who make the argument that you are making are those butt hurt about their situation and who don't even have the experience to make form an opinion on the matter.


Relax man, I'm just fucking with you. :P

I went to a large public but a very mediocre school and kinda glad I did since it was virtually free for me. Really don't see how that's gonna hurt me later on. Accounting is accounting is accounting... no matter where you go.

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prezidentv8
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Re: Why is it that UG institution is irrelevant?

Postby prezidentv8 » Tue Nov 02, 2010 3:52 pm

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