Is JD-MBA really better?

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r6_philly
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby r6_philly » Sat Oct 30, 2010 9:27 pm

I don't see how JD/PhD could be better in any sort of way. Why pursue a professional degree (that's intended to prepare you to work) with an academic degree (which is intended to keep you in academia). Don't get me wrong, I will be getting a PhD, just not at the same time as the JD (later, after I can afford the leisure time).

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Patriot1208
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Patriot1208 » Sun Oct 31, 2010 11:43 am

r6_philly wrote:I don't see how JD/PhD could be better in any sort of way. Why pursue a professional degree (that's intended to prepare you to work) with an academic degree (which is intended to keep you in academia). Don't get me wrong, I will be getting a PhD, just not at the same time as the JD (later, after I can afford the leisure time).


It isn't unless you want academia. In fact, PhD's in a lot of professional settings can hurt you.

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Noval
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Noval » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:45 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I don't see how JD/PhD could be better in any sort of way. Why pursue a professional degree (that's intended to prepare you to work) with an academic degree (which is intended to keep you in academia). Don't get me wrong, I will be getting a PhD, just not at the same time as the JD (later, after I can afford the leisure time).


It isn't unless you want academia. In fact, PhD's in a lot of professional settings can hurt you.



True, the only place where a Ph.D. would actually worth something after Academia is Management Consulting, i worked with lots of Consultants holding either a Master's or Ph.D.'s from many uncommon areas.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:47 pm

Noval wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I don't see how JD/PhD could be better in any sort of way. Why pursue a professional degree (that's intended to prepare you to work) with an academic degree (which is intended to keep you in academia). Don't get me wrong, I will be getting a PhD, just not at the same time as the JD (later, after I can afford the leisure time).


It isn't unless you want academia. In fact, PhD's in a lot of professional settings can hurt you.



True, the only place where a Ph.D. would actually worth something after Academia is Management Consulting, i worked with lots of Consultants holding either a Master's or Ph.D.'s from many uncommon areas.


Did you really? I was talking to a manager at Bain who told me he was pretty annoyed with one of his AC's deciding to get a PhD instead of an MBA.

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Noval
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Noval » Mon Nov 01, 2010 7:57 pm

Patriot1208 wrote:
Noval wrote:
Patriot1208 wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I don't see how JD/PhD could be better in any sort of way. Why pursue a professional degree (that's intended to prepare you to work) with an academic degree (which is intended to keep you in academia). Don't get me wrong, I will be getting a PhD, just not at the same time as the JD (later, after I can afford the leisure time).


It isn't unless you want academia. In fact, PhD's in a lot of professional settings can hurt you.



True, the only place where a Ph.D. would actually worth something after Academia is Management Consulting, i worked with lots of Consultants holding either a Master's or Ph.D.'s from many uncommon areas.


Did you really? I was talking to a manager at Bain who told me he was pretty annoyed with one of his AC's deciding to get a PhD instead of an MBA.


Yes i did when the firm i worked at hired Consultants for restructuring after they laid off the useless workers, since i was doing Corporate Law, i was in charge, with a few others of the transactions between the Law firm and Consulting firm and i had the occasion to talk with some consultants who holded a Ph.D., one of them even had a Law degree from Stanford.

I was kind of surprised but it was reality :mrgreen:

Let's say that in the big consulting firms, there is a fair number of people who hate Ph.D.'s and others love or consider them as human beings at least.

Pip
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Pip » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:26 pm

What value does having a JD do if you are in business? Large companies that have a need for an MBA will have in house counsel that will have years of experience in law... so you don't really bring any value to the company that wanted an MBA.

On the flip side, what value would a MBA bring to a law firm? The managing partner position where you would be doing the business side of the firm is already taken and I doubt they will be recruiting a graduate to take it over.

The only thing a JD/MBA can do is give you more snob appeal... so a place like Bain or McKinsey might give you a second look, but only if the degrees are from top schools.

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Noval
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Noval » Wed Nov 03, 2010 3:52 pm

Pip wrote:What value does having a JD do if you are in business? Large companies that have a need for an MBA will have in house counsel that will have years of experience in law... so you don't really bring any value to the company that wanted an MBA.

On the flip side, what value would a MBA bring to a law firm? The managing partner position where you would be doing the business side of the firm is already taken and I doubt they will be recruiting a graduate to take it over.

The only thing a JD/MBA can do is give you more snob appeal... so a place like Bain or McKinsey might give you a second look, but only if the degrees are from top schools.



Because companies love the way Lawyers think, they are problem solving and have a better logic/discipline than the average Business grad. So a lot of companies like Investment Banks or Top Consulting Firms look at Lawyers for associate positions and will teach them what they don't know in mini-MBA courses.


You would be surprised at how many Partners in these fields did Law.

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chrisbru
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby chrisbru » Wed Nov 03, 2010 5:35 pm

From what I understand, it's pretty rare that the JD/MBA will give you a leg up on the competition. One area where this MAY be a good idea is for non-traditional students who are headed to law school with significant work experience, and a very clear reason WHY you want BOTH the JD and MBA. IMHO, schools really only sell this path to make an extra year of tuition out of their law students.

If you really want an MBA, my advice is to get your JD, find a job you are interested in, and work for a while. If an MBA will help you, typically your employer will at least help with, if not pay for all of, your MBA after you have some work experience. Sure, it doesn't let you cut out a year of time like the dual does... But at the same time, the work experience you bring will help you take MUCH more out of an MBA course.

Additionally, you might be able to get your MBA from a badass business school when you have a JD with a good GPA and some solid work experience. Although, I don't know where you plan on going to law school, so this may apply either way.

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hellojd
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby hellojd » Sat Nov 06, 2010 1:42 pm

Noval wrote:
Pip wrote:What value does having a JD do if you are in business? Large companies that have a need for an MBA will have in house counsel that will have years of experience in law... so you don't really bring any value to the company that wanted an MBA.

On the flip side, what value would a MBA bring to a law firm? The managing partner position where you would be doing the business side of the firm is already taken and I doubt they will be recruiting a graduate to take it over.

The only thing a JD/MBA can do is give you more snob appeal... so a place like Bain or McKinsey might give you a second look, but only if the degrees are from top schools.



Because companies love the way Lawyers think, they are problem solving and have a better logic/discipline than the average Business grad. So a lot of companies like Investment Banks or Top Consulting Firms look at Lawyers for associate positions and will teach them what they don't know in mini-MBA courses.


You would be surprised at how many Partners in these fields did Law.


Lloyd Blanfein, CEO Goldman was a JD.

Bruce Wasserstein of Lazard was a Harvard JD/MBA.

Bottom line is, these sorts of companies look for really smart people. It doesn't matter to them THAT much if they're a JD or MBA or both (although for i-banks and consultancies, i would think that all things equal they would prefer a mba over a jd) .

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Noval
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Noval » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:34 pm

hellojd wrote:
Noval wrote:
Pip wrote:What value does having a JD do if you are in business? Large companies that have a need for an MBA will have in house counsel that will have years of experience in law... so you don't really bring any value to the company that wanted an MBA.

On the flip side, what value would a MBA bring to a law firm? The managing partner position where you would be doing the business side of the firm is already taken and I doubt they will be recruiting a graduate to take it over.

The only thing a JD/MBA can do is give you more snob appeal... so a place like Bain or McKinsey might give you a second look, but only if the degrees are from top schools.



Because companies love the way Lawyers think, they are problem solving and have a better logic/discipline than the average Business grad. So a lot of companies like Investment Banks or Top Consulting Firms look at Lawyers for associate positions and will teach them what they don't know in mini-MBA courses.


You would be surprised at how many Partners in these fields did Law.


Lloyd Blanfein, CEO Goldman was a JD.

Bruce Wasserstein of Lazard was a Harvard JD/MBA.

Bottom line is, these sorts of companies look for really smart people. It doesn't matter to them THAT much if they're a JD or MBA or both (although for i-banks and consultancies, i would think that all things equal they would prefer a mba over a jd) .


Well, anyways, if you really want to re-orient your career to Business you'll need Corporate Law, forget about Litigation/Entertainment/Employment laws, you need Corporate Law or you won't worth shit in front of B-School applicants.
JD/MBAs in Business are even more profitable than the classic crop from HBS, Lawyers are needed in Business positions because they can sell leasing business, design new securities and use their analytical prowess to talk to clients.
Their way of thinking is more logic oriented and more "stiff" than the average guy from Business school, which is exactly why they are popular in Companies.

+If you want to make it in-house in a Fortune 500 company after BigLaw, the JD/MBA will make it easier, remember that it's always better to have more than have less.

Curry

Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Curry » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:55 pm

Noval wrote: remember that it's always better to have more than have less.


That may be the worst advice I've ever heard...

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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Noval » Sat Nov 06, 2010 2:55 pm

curryinaninstant wrote:
Noval wrote: remember that it's always better to have more than have less.


That may be the worst advice I've ever heard...



Depends on what situation you associate it with.

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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Nov 06, 2010 3:04 pm

--ImageRemoved--

whymeohgodno
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Nov 06, 2010 4:01 pm

JD + MD? lololol

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:44 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:JD + MD? lololol


Dude, that's like... Judge Dread and Dr. Doolittle all in one!

Anybody who does not see the advantages in that deserves to...I don't even

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Kswizzie
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Kswizzie » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:47 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:JD + MD? lololol


Dude, that's like... Judge Dread and Dr. Doolittle all in one!

Anybody who does not see the advantages in that deserves to...I don't even


Do you guys actually know anyone that's done this? I know someone who has believe me there are tangible benefits...

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:54 pm

Kswizzie wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:JD + MD? lololol


Dude, that's like... Judge Dread and Dr. Doolittle all in one!

Anybody who does not see the advantages in that deserves to...I don't even


Do you guys actually know anyone that's done this? I know someone who has believe me there are tangible benefits...


I can see the obvious benefits if your client were to have a heart attack after seeing your billable hours + rate.

Otherwise, in every instance I've known that a lawyer needs a medical opinion - a consultation of a specialized physician is warranted.

Can you think of a time you'd be BOTH an MD and a lawyer?

Although, here's a thought: Is the entry to the MD program more lax if you go for JD/MD? That could be a reason as an afterthought - think JD/MBA from Kellogg's.

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Kswizzie
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Kswizzie » Sat Nov 06, 2010 6:58 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Kswizzie wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:JD + MD? lololol


Dude, that's like... Judge Dread and Dr. Doolittle all in one!

Anybody who does not see the advantages in that deserves to...I don't even


Do you guys actually know anyone that's done this? I know someone who has believe me there are tangible benefits...


I can see the obvious benefits if your client were to have a heart attack after seeing your billable hours + rate.

Otherwise, in every instance I've known that a lawyer needs a medical opinion - a consultation of a specialized physician is warranted.

Can you think of a time you'd be BOTH an MD and a lawyer?

Although, here's a thought: Is the entry to the MD program more lax if you go for JD/MD? That could be a reason as an afterthought - think JD/MBA from Kellogg's.


The person that I am thinking of worked for a medical malpractice insurance company her job required legal and medical knowledge don't really know much else about it

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:08 pm

Kswizzie wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Kswizzie wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Dude, that's like... Judge Dread and Dr. Doolittle all in one!

Anybody who does not see the advantages in that deserves to...I don't even


Do you guys actually know anyone that's done this? I know someone who has believe me there are tangible benefits...


I can see the obvious benefits if your client were to have a heart attack after seeing your billable hours + rate.

Otherwise, in every instance I've known that a lawyer needs a medical opinion - a consultation of a specialized physician is warranted.

Can you think of a time you'd be BOTH an MD and a lawyer?

Although, here's a thought: Is the entry to the MD program more lax if you go for JD/MD? That could be a reason as an afterthought - think JD/MBA from Kellogg's.


The person that I am thinking of worked for a medical malpractice insurance company her job required legal and medical knowledge don't really know much else about it


Think about it logically, though: Who reports to the court in layman's terms the medical aspect of the case?

mhernton
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby mhernton » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:14 pm

You asking the wrong question. The MBA is usefully with the Law degree in very specific circumstances. VC + PE deals, compliance positions in energy and finance, and when your firm has lines of business that are business intensive. Some firms have clients that post big retainers for what essentially amounts to business consulting. Most MBA programs require some if not significant work experience in a practice area, where most law schools do not. In the case of business practices within a law firm, you would be the subject matter expert with real world experience in some cases. You may also have other certifications to add to your appeal (CPA, CFA, CFP etc). Most if the this stuff you can learn in Law School, or on the job. My point is if you already have an MBA and go to law school, you'll be more marketable. If you go to Law School you really don't need to go and get an MBA or stay and extra year for a joint program, unless you are looking for a specific niche opportunity, like VC/PE, compliance gigs, or Consulting at a a prestigious firm like McKinsey or BCG, or Bain etc. But if you want to do consulting, why go to Law school???

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Nov 06, 2010 7:18 pm

mhernton wrote:You asking the wrong question. The MBA is usefully with the Law degree in very specific circumstances. VC + PE deals, compliance positions in energy and finance, and when your firm has lines of business that are business intensive. Some firms have clients that post big retainers for what essentially amounts to business consulting. Most MBA programs require some if not significant work experience in a practice area, where most law schools do not. In the case of business practices within a law firm, you would be the subject matter expert with real world experience in some cases. You may also have other certifications to add to your appeal (CPA, CFA, CFP etc). Most if the this stuff you can learn in Law School, or on the job. My point is if you already have an MBA and go to law school, you'll be more marketable. If you go to Law School you really don't need to go and get an MBA or stay and extra year for a joint program, unless you are looking for a specific niche opportunity, like VC/PE, compliance gigs, or Consulting at a a prestigious firm like McKinsey or BCG, or Bain etc. But if you want to do consulting, why go to Law school???


I'll just restate this:
If you're able to get into Kellogg's through the JD/MBA program - it's worth it, not for the JD, but for the MBA. Fuck being a lawyer when you can get hired with the MBA and make shittons more.

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Noval
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Noval » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:02 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Kswizzie wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:JD + MD? lololol


Dude, that's like... Judge Dread and Dr. Doolittle all in one!

Anybody who does not see the advantages in that deserves to...I don't even


Do you guys actually know anyone that's done this? I know someone who has believe me there are tangible benefits...


I can see the obvious benefits if your client were to have a heart attack after seeing your billable hours + rate.

Otherwise, in every instance I've known that a lawyer needs a medical opinion - a consultation of a specialized physician is warranted.

Can you think of a time you'd be BOTH an MD and a lawyer?

Although, here's a thought: Is the entry to the MD program more lax if you go for JD/MD? That could be a reason as an afterthought - think JD/MBA from Kellogg's.



Unless you want to be a Doctor, fuck the MD, the rotations will suck the life out of you and the USMLE will make you want
to blow your brain's out with a shotgun.


+Who the fuck would want to pay around 150k for each degree when the person taking it is only planning to practice one of the two trades.

If you can get into a T14, you CAN get into a no name Medical School quite easily.

afa_brandon
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby afa_brandon » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:13 pm

Kswizzie wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:JD + MD? lololol


Dude, that's like... Judge Dread and Dr. Doolittle all in one!

Anybody who does not see the advantages in that deserves to...I don't even


Do you guys actually know anyone that's done this? I know someone who has believe me there are tangible benefits...


A prof from U Seattle Law spoke at my UG on bioethics. She had just gotten her MD, decided medicine wasn't for her, then went to law school.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby ResolutePear » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:15 pm

Noval wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Kswizzie wrote:
Do you guys actually know anyone that's done this? I know someone who has believe me there are tangible benefits...


I can see the obvious benefits if your client were to have a heart attack after seeing your billable hours + rate.

Otherwise, in every instance I've known that a lawyer needs a medical opinion - a consultation of a specialized physician is warranted.

Can you think of a time you'd be BOTH an MD and a lawyer?

Although, here's a thought: Is the entry to the MD program more lax if you go for JD/MD? That could be a reason as an afterthought - think JD/MBA from Kellogg's.



Unless you want to be a Doctor, fuck the MD, the rotations will suck the life out of you and the USMLE will make you want
to blow your brain's out with a shotgun.


+Who the fuck would want to pay around 150k for each degree when the person taking it is only planning to practice one of the two trades.

If you can get into a T14, you CAN get into a no name Medical School quite easily.


Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but...

Can you point me to one of those no-name med schools? I'd prefer to go to med school and have numbers to get into T14... just havn't seen any.

Curry

Re: Is JD-MBA really better?

Postby Curry » Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:17 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Noval wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Kswizzie wrote:
Do you guys actually know anyone that's done this? I know someone who has believe me there are tangible benefits...


I can see the obvious benefits if your client were to have a heart attack after seeing your billable hours + rate.

Otherwise, in every instance I've known that a lawyer needs a medical opinion - a consultation of a specialized physician is warranted.

Can you think of a time you'd be BOTH an MD and a lawyer?

Although, here's a thought: Is the entry to the MD program more lax if you go for JD/MD? That could be a reason as an afterthought - think JD/MBA from Kellogg's.



Unless you want to be a Doctor, fuck the MD, the rotations will suck the life out of you and the USMLE will make you want
to blow your brain's out with a shotgun.


+Who the fuck would want to pay around 150k for each degree when the person taking it is only planning to practice one of the two trades.

If you can get into a T14, you CAN get into a no name Medical School quite easily.


Not that I'm disagreeing with you, but...

Can you point me to one of those no-name med schools? I'd prefer to go to med school and have numbers to get into T14... just havn't seen any.


St. Georges in Granada. Enjoy the lack of milk.




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