Market for attorneys

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rdnicholson10
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Market for attorneys

Postby rdnicholson10 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:20 am

I am currently a junior in college...English major with a minor in Global Business...3.8 gpa and 162 lsat score. The plan is and always has been to attend law school...more than likely the University of Houston here in Texas mainly because I am rooted to the area. UH does not rank in the top 10 however they are tier 1. Here lately I have become quite concerned with the job market. I do not know any attorneys personally, other than the ones that I shadowed during my matriculation, and they all say there's nothing to be concerned about. I would like to know what you recent law school grads/practicing attorneys think. I would hate to go $70k in debt and not be able to find a job. Thanks in advance for your responses.
Last edited by rdnicholson10 on Sun Feb 05, 2012 9:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby Blindmelon » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:26 am

rdnicholson10 wrote:I am currently a junior in college...English major with a minor in Global Business...3.8 gpa and 172 lsat score. The plan is and always has been to attend law school...more than likely the University of Houston here in Texas mainly because I am rooted to the area. UH does not rank in the top 10 however they are tier 1. Here lately I have become quite concerned with the job market. I do not know any attorneys personally, other than the ones that I shadowed during my matriculation, and they all say there's nothing to be concerned about. I would like to know what you recent law school grads/practicing attorneys think. I would hate to go $70k in debt and not be able to find a job. Thanks in advance for your responses.


UH is selling yourself way short. You could likely go to UT for free, or CCN level. Research more.

rdnicholson10
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby rdnicholson10 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:39 am

Blindmelon wrote:
rdnicholson10 wrote:I am currently a junior in college...English major with a minor in Global Business...3.8 gpa and 172 lsat score. The plan is and always has been to attend law school...more than likely the University of Houston here in Texas mainly because I am rooted to the area. UH does not rank in the top 10 however they are tier 1. Here lately I have become quite concerned with the job market. I do not know any attorneys personally, other than the ones that I shadowed during my matriculation, and they all say there's nothing to be concerned about. I would like to know what you recent law school grads/practicing attorneys think. I would hate to go $70k in debt and not be able to find a job. Thanks in advance for your responses.


UH is selling yourself way short. You could likely go to UT for free, or CCN level. Research more.


I would totally love to attend UT...but can't....UH or South Texas are my only options. I'm only 25 but I am married with two little ones. My husband manages operations for the southwest region of his company which is headquartered in Houston so we are rooted here...unfortunately.

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sophia.olive
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby sophia.olive » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:54 am

does uh not give out full rides?
Houston is a good market. You could get a full ride at a much higher ranked school though.

Have you thought about divorce? It is in these days, it is "the new pink." Do you think you will be able to manage a husband who works, law school, and two children. If so, I dont think houston is a bad option for you. That other school you mentioned is not worth the time. If you plan on eventually working in houston, I heard UT doesnt do that much better than uh in houston, the city im assuming you would have to live in after law school.
I do know a lady who got excepted into both with substantial money at UT. She chose UH because she thought it would be less competitive, she graduated first in her class and is now a prosperous partner (assuming these are your goals.) caveat-that was a long time ago.

Also my sister went to ut, graduated top 20%, and got beat out by some UHers in houston. She ended up in New Orleans. more recent

rdnicholson10
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby rdnicholson10 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:15 am

sophia.olive wrote:does uh not give out full rides?
Houston is a good market. You could get a full ride at a much higher ranked school though.

Have you thought about divorce? It is in these days, it is "the new pink." Do you think you will be able to manage a husband who works, law school, and two children. If so, I dont think houston is a bad option for you. That other school you mentioned is not worth the time. If you plan on eventually working in houston, I heard UT doesnt do that much better than uh in houston, the city im assuming you would have to live in after law school.
I do know a lady who got excepted into both with substantial money at UT. She chose UH because she thought it would be less competitive, she graduated first in her class and is now a prosperous partner (assuming these are your goals.) caveat-that was a long time ago.

Also my sister went to ut, graduated top 20%, and got beat out by some UHers in houston. She ended up in New Orleans. more recent


Thanks for the advice, however divorce is not an option...we will manage...I have supported my husband throughout his career and watched it flourish. I know it won't be easy, but anything worth having is worth fighting for...besides, that's what nanny's are for. Thanks again.

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sophia.olive
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby sophia.olive » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:21 am

rdnicholson10 wrote:
sophia.olive wrote:does uh not give out full rides?
Houston is a good market. You could get a full ride at a much higher ranked school though.

Have you thought about divorce? It is in these days, it is "the new pink." Do you think you will be able to manage a husband who works, law school, and two children. If so, I dont think houston is a bad option for you. That other school you mentioned is not worth the time. If you plan on eventually working in houston, I heard UT doesnt do that much better than uh in houston, the city im assuming you would have to live in after law school.
I do know a lady who got excepted into both with substantial money at UT. She chose UH because she thought it would be less competitive, she graduated first in her class and is now a prosperous partner (assuming these are your goals.) caveat-that was a long time ago.

Also my sister went to ut, graduated top 20%, and got beat out by some UHers in houston. She ended up in New Orleans. more recent


Thanks for the advice, however divorce is not an option...we will manage...I have supported my husband throughout his career and watched it flourish. I know it won't be easy, but anything worth having is worth fighting for...besides, that's what nanny's are for. Thanks again.

Not very trendy are you.......

Just keep in mind, in regards to UH, you should be going to school for free with your numbers.

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Patriot1208
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby Patriot1208 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:23 am

sophia.olive wrote:Just keep in mind, in regards to UH, you should be going to school for free with your numbers.

This, if they try to make you pay anything, you call them up, explain your situation and you really want to go to UH and you get a full ride. You will likely have, by far, the best numbers of anyone attending. But you are right, you will have a tough time finding a job if you don't do well at UH.

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JazzOne
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby JazzOne » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:27 am

I got a full scholarship from UT with 3.25 174. You should seriously consider a better school than UH. I understand family concerns. I have a daughter of my own. However, the employment prospects for UH Law grads are not great. Even my classmates at UT are having a tough time finding jobs if they're not in the top 10%. The legal job market is really rough right now. Do more research before you make a choice.

Even if you ignore everything else I have said, don't pay for law school. If UH tries to charge you ONE PENNY, they are ripping you off. Even a full scholarship would be a rip off because your numbers would be doing more for the school than the school would be doing for you.

Do you have a job lined up after graduation from UG? Do you have a job lined up after graduation from LS? What is your motivation for going to law school? What are your goals when you finish? Answering those questions will help us point you in the right direction.

By the way, UH is not tier one. If I recall correctly, tier one consists of the top 50 schools. I doubt that it matters too much once you get down near the bottom of the top tier, but I still thought you should know how the tiers are construed.

rdnicholson10
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby rdnicholson10 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:39 am

JazzOne wrote:I got a full scholarship from UT with 3.25 174. You should seriously consider a better school than UH. I understand family concerns. I have a daughter of my own. However, the employment prospects for UH Law grads are not great. Even my classmates at UT are having a tough time finding jobs if they're not in the top 10%. The legal job market is really rough right now. Do more research before you make a choice.

Even if you ignore everything else I have said, don't pay for law school. If UH tries to charge you ONE PENNY, they are ripping you off. Even a full scholarship would be a rip off because your numbers would be doing more for the school than the school would be doing for you.

Do you have a job lined up after graduation? What is your motivation for going to law school? What are your goals when you finish? Answering those questions will help us point you in the right direction.


Thanks for this info...definitely more of what I was looking for. I know that the job market is rough right now and that is why I am seeking advice...before I jump in. I do not have a job lined up after graduation considering that I wanted to enter law school right away. My plans are to stick to the corporate/private side of law...there are a lot of huge private firms here in Houston so the plan is to try and intern with those and keep them at the top of my list (I know these jobs go to the top performers in law school). I am most interested in intellectual property/corporate and security law...but I did not want to get caught up in fields until I actually had a chance to explore them all. Wondering if I should just go ahead and get an MBA while I wait out the market.

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nealric
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby nealric » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:57 am

Wondering if I should just go ahead and get an MBA while I wait out the market.


Only if you don't want to go to law school.

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JazzOne
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby JazzOne » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:59 am

I met a student from UCLA Law at a call-back recently, and she was finishing up the JD/MBA program there. She seemed to really like the double degree program. Most schools have a JD/MBA option that only takes four years. In fact, I know a girl on Law Review at UT who is doing the JD/MBA, and the business school at UT is actually pretty good.

OP: Austin is pretty damn cool. Are you sure you couldn't convince your hubby to apply for jobs here or apply for a transfer? Women can be pretty persuasive, and if you have been supportive of his career, maybe it's time for him to repay the favor? Not trying to cause any marital problems, but I would hate to see you waste those numbers. You could even go higher than UT, but I'm pushing for UT because it's close enough to keep your family intact, but high enough in the rankings so that your numbers aren't wasted.

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Lwoods
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby Lwoods » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:12 am

JazzOne wrote:By the way, UH is not tier one. If I recall correctly, tier one consists of the top 50 schools. I doubt that it matters too much once you get down near the bottom of the top tier, but I still thought you should know how the tiers are construed.

USNWR calls the top 100ish Tier 1, which I imagine is why OP called UH T1.

OP: Technically you're correct, but almost everybody in the industry considers programs ranked 51-100 Tier 2. This makes more sense as USNWR currently only has Tiers 1, 3 and 4.

I don't know anything about the Texas market, but outside of T14, schools seem to be largely regional in their placement. UH is the best school in Houston, so it probably isn't a bad choice if you want to work in Houston. However, you will have the name of your law school on your resume for the entirety of your legal career. You don't get a do-over. Yes, as time goes on, your experience will matter more than where you got your degree, but it will still be there as an indication of your abilities, right or wrong.
If it's just about getting a job, I think you'll be okay. It might not be the fanciest or highest paying job, but then again, it might be. Your numbers show that you're smart; if you continue that pattern at UH, you will probably be able to graduate at or near the top of your class, giving you a better chance than most of your classmates to land a good (or even the best) local job.
However, if you want a top education and to give yourself the most options, you should go to the best school at which you feel you can do well. I know husbands and especially children complicate this, but really consider what it is you want from your law degree before limiting yourself.

Kudos on the stellar stats. :)
Last edited by Lwoods on Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby vanwinkle » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:13 am

1) Since your husband can presumably keep paying for your living expenses, and you should certainly get a full scholarship with your numbers, you could be one of those rare few people that could truly attend law school for free. Something will be truly wrong if UH doesn't give you a whole bunch of $$$ to go there.

2) You'll have some flexibility by being able to graduate free from debt and having a second income, which means you'll be free to take whatever law job you can find, even ones that don't pay well. That'll make circumstances much better for you than many people; in fact, if you had to, you might be able to volunteer somewhere and do pro bono work to build up experience while living off your husband's salary another year or two.

3) An MBA would not really help much at all if you want to be a lawyer. MBAs don't matter in the legal profession, and you'd just be spending two years of time and money on something that doesn't move you toward your goals. Those two years would be better spent developing legal skills that make you more experienced and marketable.

Imagine it this way:

Option 1: 2 years for MBA + 3 years for JD = 5 years being supported by your husband

Option 2: 3 years for JD + 2 years pro bono work = 5 years being supported by your husband

Option 2 has gotten you real legal experience and makes you an experienced attorney by the end of those 5 years. Plus, by doing pro bono work you're regularly interacting with other legal professionals and meeting people who may be able to offer you jobs. That kind of networking is worth a lot more than an MBA would be.

So even assuming you couldn't find a job at all at graduation, you'd still be better off getting the JD now, if your long-term goal is to be a practicing lawyer. Unlike a lot of people, you could likely afford to keep building up experience and connections for free until you manage to network your way into a paying job.

4) Law school is a lot of work and stress. Taking care of a family while going to law school will be a burden; both are often referred to as full-time jobs, so that's how you should think about it, as working two full-time jobs at the same time. However, if that's what you want to do, then you should still go for it.

rdnicholson10
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby rdnicholson10 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:43 am

vanwinkle wrote:1) Since your husband can presumably keep paying for your living expenses, and you should certainly get a full scholarship with your numbers, you could be one of those rare few people that could truly attend law school for free. Something will be truly wrong if UH doesn't give you a whole bunch of $$$ to go there.

2) You'll have some flexibility by being able to graduate free from debt and having a second income, which means you'll be free to take whatever law job you can find, even ones that don't pay well. That'll make circumstances much better for you than many people; in fact, if you had to, you might be able to volunteer somewhere and do pro bono work to build up experience while living off your husband's salary another year or two.

3) An MBA would not really help much at all if you want to be a lawyer. MBAs don't matter in the legal profession, and you'd just be spending two years of time and money on something that doesn't move you toward your goals. Those two years would be better spent developing legal skills that make you more experienced and marketable.

Imagine it this way:

Option 1: 2 years for MBA + 3 years for JD = 5 years being supported by your husband

Option 2: 3 years for JD + 2 years pro bono work = 5 years being supported by your husband

Option 2 has gotten you real legal experience and makes you an experienced attorney by the end of those 5 years. Plus, by doing pro bono work you're regularly interacting with other legal professionals and meeting people who may be able to offer you jobs. That kind of networking is worth a lot more than an MBA would be.

So even assuming you couldn't find a job at all at graduation, you'd still be better off getting the JD now, if your long-term goal is to be a practicing lawyer. Unlike a lot of people, you could likely afford to keep building up experience and connections for free until you manage to network your way into a paying job.

4) Law school is a lot of work and stress. Taking care of a family while going to law school will be a burden; both are often referred to as full-time jobs, so that's how you should think about it, as working two full-time jobs at the same time. However, if that's what you want to do, then you should still go for it.



Great advice! I never thought about pro bono work. I know the odds are against me...having a family and all...I just feel that I have come too far to abandon the goal. I still have my senior year to finish and a lot can change within a year. Thanks!

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dcman06
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Re: Market for attorneys

Postby dcman06 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:46 am

rdnicholson10 wrote:I am currently a junior in college...English major with a minor in Global Business...3.8 gpa and 172 lsat score. The plan is and always has been to attend law school...more than likely the University of Houston here in Texas mainly because I am rooted to the area. UH does not rank in the top 10 however they are tier 1. Here lately I have become quite concerned with the job market. I do not know any attorneys personally, other than the ones that I shadowed during my matriculation, and they all say there's nothing to be concerned about. I would like to know what you recent law school grads/practicing attorneys think. I would hate to go $70k in debt and not be able to find a job. Thanks in advance for your responses.


Given your stats, 3.8 GPA and 172 LSAT, you should be able to get into a law school with a better rep than the University of Houston. You should be able to go to Texas, at a minimum. The more meaningful activities you have outside of college, the better.




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