GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

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JustBelieve
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby JustBelieve » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:33 pm

I am thankful for this study because it sheds light on the truth.

acrossthelake
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:36 pm

Okay, I'll make you a deal:

You go get top grades at a Tier4 and I'll go to a T6 and we'll check back in 4 years to see whose employment opportunities were better.

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romothesavior
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby romothesavior » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:56 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:JustBelieve must be a total troll.


Considering Just Believe sent me a PM today saying:

Please pray. God will forgive you for your ways. God forgives all. You will be forgiven. Find Him and you will find you no longer need to preach evil.


... I'd say he's probably a troll.

acrossthelake
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:57 pm

romothesavior wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:JustBelieve must be a total troll.


Considering Just Believe sent me a PM today saying:

Please pray. God will forgive you for your ways. God forgives all. You will be forgiven. Find Him and you will find you no longer need to preach evil.


... I'd say he's probably a troll.

Judging by my PMs::

Or crazy. Either/or.

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kalvano
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby kalvano » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:03 pm

God hates trolls.

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bk1
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby bk1 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:08 pm

I feel left out. Pathetic troll didn't PM me. :(

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BruceWayne
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:14 pm

It's intriguing how people laugh this study off (as they should) but the same people treat his study on affirmative action as if it's as rock solid as Newton's first law of motion.

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kalvano
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby kalvano » Wed Oct 06, 2010 3:18 pm

People are afraid to criticize anything relating to race.

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BruceWayne
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby BruceWayne » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:18 pm

kalvano wrote:People are afraid to criticize anything relating to race.


That must have totally went over your head. His other study claims that URMs almost always end up in the bottom of their class. Almost every non minority poster on here treats that study as if it's gospel and has no holes in it (although it has a ton). If anything, this thread shows the situation is exactly the opposite of what you posted.

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maxm2764
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby maxm2764 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 8:23 pm

The least subtle troll award goes to...

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kalvano
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby kalvano » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:20 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
kalvano wrote:People are afraid to criticize anything relating to race.


That must have totally went over your head. His other study claims that URMs almost always end up in the bottom of their class. Almost every non minority poster on here treats that study as if it's gospel and has no holes in it (although it has a ton). If anything, this thread shows the situation is exactly the opposite of what you posted.



Oh, I never read the study or thread. I just assumes it was somehow flattering and people were afraid to criticize it.

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Drummingreg
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby Drummingreg » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:05 am

--ImageRemoved--

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JG Hall
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby JG Hall » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:10 am

I would say there might be a correlation between gpa and desire to stick around long enough to make partner. I could be wrong.

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Helmholtz
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby Helmholtz » Thu Oct 07, 2010 12:13 am

BruceWayne wrote:
kalvano wrote:People are afraid to criticize anything relating to race.


His other study claims that URMs almost always end up in the bottom of their class.


Actually, I think that part of the study is basically just him regurgitating the statistical information provided by the schools.

nStiver
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby nStiver » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:07 am

God that Partner Promotions in 2009 list is depressing. 1st, there are very few new partners in the United States relative to the multitude of lawyers. 2nd, all of the partners came from very prestigious schools. I hate to say it, but i can't "just believe" that anyone will make partner, no matter where they went to school. The numbers on that list speak for themselves.

Also, this begs the question--are you shit out of luck in terms of making 100k+ if you go to a t2 school? Any info would be appreciated.

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby JusticeHarlan » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:49 am

nStiver wrote:Also, this begs the question--are you shit out of luck in terms of making 100k+ if you go to a t2 school? Any info would be appreciated.

Here's a great site (LinkRemoved) (run by two TLSers) that aggregated starting salary and employment data for law schools. They only have info up to the class of 2008, so you can imagine that things are worse now, at every school. But play around with it, and get a sense of how relatively strong or weak certain schools are. You'll probably see some T2 schools are the dominant school for a region and therefore have respectable employment (or at least, they did in 2008), while others are low on the pecking order in their market below several T1s, or just aren't in particularly strong markets for BigLaw in general.

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Noval
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby Noval » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:54 pm

Yeah sure, grades are important, but some firms actually DON'T EVEN OPEN the student's record if they see they didn't come from a T14(+a few other schools.)

So be realistic, if you can't make it to something actually good, forget law, it will save you from trouble.

nStiver
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby nStiver » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:49 pm

JusticeHarlan wrote:
nStiver wrote:Also, this begs the question--are you shit out of luck in terms of making 100k+ if you go to a t2 school? Any info would be appreciated.

Here's a great site (LinkRemoved) (run by two TLSers) that aggregated starting salary and employment data for law schools. They only have info up to the class of 2008, so you can imagine that things are worse now, at every school. But play around with it, and get a sense of how relatively strong or weak certain schools are. You'll probably see some T2 schools are the dominant school for a region and therefore have respectable employment (or at least, they did in 2008), while others are low on the pecking order in their market below several T1s, or just aren't in particularly strong markets for BigLaw in general.


Things don't look quite as bad as people here make it out to be. If your goal is to land a 100k+ job, it still looks like a reasonable number of law schools outside the top 14 have medians above the 100k mark. I think some times people here get obsessed with the top 14 and become overly pessimistic about job prospects. Sure, its not a guaranteed gold mine like many people in the general public seem to think it is, but at least you have the prospect of a stable income.

We here often forget that there are people out there who can't get hired Wienerschnitzel, much less land a job as an attorney.

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bk1
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby bk1 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:51 pm

nStiver wrote:Things don't look quite as bad as people here make it out to be. If your goal is to land a 100k+ job, it still looks like a reasonable number of law schools outside the top 14 have medians above the 100k mark. I think some times people here get obsessed with the top 14 and become overly pessimistic about job prospects. Sure, its not a guaranteed gold mine like many people in the general public seem to think it is, but at least you have the prospect of a stable income.

We here often forget that there are people out there who can't get hired Wienerschnitzel, much less land a job as an attorney.

I think you are forgetting the often 6 figure debt that people get themselves into to go to law school.

nStiver
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby nStiver » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:56 pm

bk1 wrote:
nStiver wrote:Things don't look quite as bad as people here make it out to be. If your goal is to land a 100k+ job, it still looks like a reasonable number of law schools outside the top 14 have medians above the 100k mark. I think some times people here get obsessed with the top 14 and become overly pessimistic about job prospects. Sure, its not a guaranteed gold mine like many people in the general public seem to think it is, but at least you have the prospect of a stable income.

We here often forget that there are people out there who can't get hired Wienerschnitzel, much less land a job as an attorney.

I think you are forgetting the often 6 figure debt that people get themselves into to go to law school.


Yes, that is a very good point. I am starting to see more and more that cost of tuition is a biggy when selecting a school, (yes, obvious).

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crysmissmichelle
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby crysmissmichelle » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:02 pm

bk1 wrote:
NayBoer wrote:I've never said this before on TLS, but flame.

Did someone just pop their flame cherry?


+1

Me too, never said it, I say it here.

fosterp
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby fosterp » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:24 pm

The article only states the correlation between grades and making partner inside a firm. From what I read I saw nothing about grades and their effect on getting employment at said firms. Basically all I am gathering from this story is that people who make partner had higher GPAs. So, consider the possibility that firms maybe are hiring from a dozen places, but from a fairly narrow window on the rankings maybe? Hiring from a "dozen or more" schools does not mean they are hiring from T1 and T4 schools equally. Moreover, the correlation between making partner and GPA does not mean the GPA is what earned them partner. Perhaps getting a high GPA is indicative of the hard work and motivation that someone would need to get said GPA, and that work ethic will aid them in succeeding in their profession as well?

This article reeks of garbage pseudo-statistic rhetoric you would expect to find in popular magazines. Shame this is supposed to be for lawyers and prelaw students.

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AreJay711
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Re: GPA determines career success, study finds (not the school)

Postby AreJay711 » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:07 pm

fosterp wrote:The article only states the correlation between grades and making partner inside a firm. From what I read I saw nothing about grades and their effect on getting employment at said firms. Basically all I am gathering from this story is that people who make partner had higher GPAs. So, consider the possibility that firms maybe are hiring from a dozen places, but from a fairly narrow window on the rankings maybe? Hiring from a "dozen or more" schools does not mean they are hiring from T1 and T4 schools equally. Moreover, the correlation between making partner and GPA does not mean the GPA is what earned them partner. Perhaps getting a high GPA is indicative of the hard work and motivation that someone would need to get said GPA, and that work ethic will aid them in succeeding in their profession as well?

This article reeks of garbage pseudo-statistic rhetoric you would expect to find in popular magazines. Shame this is supposed to be for lawyers and prelaw students.


Very true. But to be honest Pre-law students are some of the dumbest people I know (in real life anyway) and very few people bother to question what statistics are actually saying. People often just follow authority and stop looking for flaws in the argument after they're finished the lsat.




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