Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

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jrwhitedog
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Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby jrwhitedog » Sat Oct 02, 2010 10:36 pm

Just curious, is there anyone became a professor right after graduating from law school? If so, how can you pay your law school loan?

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gdane
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby gdane » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:54 am

jrwhitedog wrote:Just curious, is there anyone became a professor right after graduating from law school? If so, how can you pay your law school loan?

I dont have an answer for your first question. However, I have to point out that these freshly graduated professors do get paid for what they do. Often in the upper 5 figures. That's one way that they could pay off law school loans.

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Gaucho
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby Gaucho » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:19 am

Professor Obama went to UChicago directly after Harvard
Last edited by Gaucho on Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tea_drinker
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby tea_drinker » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:23 pm

I am not an expert on this matter, but here is my 2 cents:

-You will start at the bottom of the academia ladder: assistant researcher, researcher, assistant professor, associate professor, and (finally) professor.
-Disclaimers: 1. different schools have different structure, 2. a degree from HYSCCBM will sure put you at a better position on that ladder, 3. opportunity plays a huge factor (for example: if you study environmental law, and a school is staffing up in that area, they may give you a better title and pay you better<-- this, by no means, gets you a professorship).

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IAFG
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby IAFG » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:26 pm

Prestigious clerkship

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tea_drinker
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby tea_drinker » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:33 pm

IAFG wrote:Prestigious clerkship


Yup this will help.

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Aberzombie1892
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Oct 03, 2010 12:53 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:Just curious, is there anyone became a professor right after graduating from law school? If so, how can you pay your law school loan?


(for the purposes of my answer, I am not describing the path of "professors of practice," clinic professors, or LRW professors)

It's possible, but you will need to have published frequently during law school and you must have attended Yale (or Harvard, in some cases).

If you want to be a law professor and do not do the above, you can either 1) pursue prestigious clerkships or 2) pursue prestigious fellowships. Either way, you should be trying to be published during that those time periods.

After the initial clerkship or fellowship, you would try to become an assistant professor. If you are unsuccessful, you will pursue another clerkship or fellowship (hopefully more prestigious ones than your initial ones). Then you try to become an assistant professor again.

On different note, assistant law professors make about $120,000 (on average; a document was released in the spring that listed the average salaries of assistant, associate, and full professors at each of the law schools). There is no significant pay difference between law school professors in relation to the rank of law schools (i.e. Michigan pays its professors the most on average - more than Harvard).

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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby spondee » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:04 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:After the initial clerkship or fellowship, you would try to become an assistant professor. If you are unsuccessful, you will pursue another clerkship or fellowship (hopefully more prestigious ones than your initial ones). Then you try to become an assistant professor again.

On different note, assistant law professors make about $120,000 (on average; a document was released in the spring that listed the average salaries of assistant, associate, and full professors at each of the law schools). There is no significant pay difference between law school professors in relation to the rank of law schools (i.e. Michigan pays its professors the most on average - more than Harvard).


1. Does the timing really make this possible? I'm skeptical that one could go on the meat market, fail, and then still be on-time to target clerkships...

2. Can you link me to this document? Is there a noticeable pay disparity between top schools and lower-tier schools?

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rayiner
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby rayiner » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:11 pm

On this note: how should I pay my loans while I'm a SCOTUS clerk? I'm just a 0L right now, but I feel like that based on my extensive involvement in campus activities in college that I've got a great shot! Just trying to plan ahead, thanks.

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theavrock
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby theavrock » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:21 pm

rayiner wrote:On this note: how should I pay my loans while I'm a SCOTUS clerk? I'm just a 0L right now, but I feel like that based on my extensive involvement in campus activities in college that I've got a great shot! Just trying to plan ahead, thanks.


haha. I love this.

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IAFG
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby IAFG » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:49 pm

rayiner wrote:On this note: how should I pay my loans while I'm a SCOTUS clerk? I'm just a 0L right now, but I feel like that based on my extensive involvement in campus activities in college that I've got a great shot! Just trying to plan ahead, thanks.

OP said, "just curious." nothing wrong with wondering how the process works.

bigben
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby bigben » Sun Oct 03, 2010 1:56 pm

They probably take a portion of their relatively large salary and use it to pay their loans.

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Rand M.
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby Rand M. » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:04 pm

bigben wrote:They probably take a portion of their relatively large salary and use it to pay their loans.


This. A lot of the discussion ITT has missed what the OP actually asked, which is a puzzling question.

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IAFG
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby IAFG » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:06 pm

Rand M. wrote:
bigben wrote:They probably take a portion of their relatively large salary and use it to pay their loans.


This. A lot of the discussion ITT has missed what the OP actually asked, which is a puzzling question.

to pull this off, HYS is all but required. if you don't come from money, all three will probably be generous with aid. after school, all three have great loan programs for PI. it's not really an issue, even without the $120k salary.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:09 pm

spondee wrote:I'm skeptical that one could go on the meat market, fail, and then still be on-time to target clerkships...

You're getting the timing backwards. Even professors who came "right out of law school" still did a prestigious clerkship before getting hired in academia. It's pretty much a prerequisite these days. Generally they're going to want a CoA clerkship, because at the appellate level you're dealing more with pure issues of law, which is what an academic does.

This complicates the search for academic work even further now, because many CoA judges are requiring a prior federal district or state appellate clerkship, or legal work experience. This means that to get a CoA clerkship you've got to do other work, and if you need the CoA clerkship to go on the "meat market", that's more work you've got to do before you're ready, even "right out of law school"...

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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:10 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:
jrwhitedog wrote:Just curious, is there anyone became a professor right after graduating from law school? If so, how can you pay your law school loan?


(for the purposes of my answer, I am not describing the path of "professors of practice," clinic professors, or LRW professors)

It's possible, but you will need to have published frequently during law school and you must have attended Yale (or Harvard, in some cases).

If you want to be a law professor and do not do the above, you can either 1) pursue prestigious clerkships or 2) pursue prestigious fellowships. Either way, you should be trying to be published during that those time periods.

After the initial clerkship or fellowship, you would try to become an assistant professor. If you are unsuccessful, you will pursue another clerkship or fellowship (hopefully more prestigious ones than your initial ones). Then you try to become an assistant professor again.

On different note, assistant law professors make about $120,000 (on average; a document was released in the spring that listed the average salaries of assistant, associate, and full professors at each of the law schools). There is no significant pay difference between law school professors in relation to the rank of law schools (i.e. Michigan pays its professors the most on average - more than Harvard).


Link to the bolded? Would be interested to see that.

spondee
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby spondee » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:12 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
spondee wrote:I'm skeptical that one could go on the meat market, fail, and then still be on-time to target clerkships...

You're getting the timing backwards. Even professors who came "right out of law school" still did a prestigious clerkship before getting hired in academia. It's pretty much a prerequisite these days. Generally they're going to want a CoA clerkship, because at the appellate level you're dealing more with pure issues of law, which is what an academic does.

This complicates the search for academic work even further now, because many CoA judges are requiring a prior federal district or state appellate clerkship, or legal work experience. This means that to get a CoA clerkship you've got to do other work, and if you need the CoA clerkship to go on the "meat market", that's more work you've got to do before you're ready, even "right out of law school"...


Right. That's how I understood it. What confused me was this:

Aberzombie1892 wrote:After the initial clerkship . . . you would try to become an assistant professor. If you are unsuccessful, you will pursue another clerkship . . . . Then you try to become an assistant professor again.

spondee
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby spondee » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:19 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:On different note, assistant law professors make about $120,000 (on average; a document was released in the spring that listed the average salaries of assistant, associate, and full professors at each of the law schools). There is no significant pay difference between law school professors in relation to the rank of law schools (i.e. Michigan pays its professors the most on average - more than Harvard).


Link to the bolded? Would be interested to see that.


Yeah, curious to see this, too. This data (LinkRemoved) suggests $120K is definitely not average.

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IAFG
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby IAFG » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:23 pm

spondee wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
Aberzombie1892 wrote:On different note, assistant law professors make about $120,000 (on average; a document was released in the spring that listed the average salaries of assistant, associate, and full professors at each of the law schools). There is no significant pay difference between law school professors in relation to the rank of law schools (i.e. Michigan pays its professors the most on average - more than Harvard).


Link to the bolded? Would be interested to see that.


Yeah, curious to see this, too. This data (LinkRemoved) suggests $120K is definitely not average.

nevertheless, $105k for asst. prof and U of Oregon? not a bad gig in Eugene, damn

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rayiner
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby rayiner » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:28 pm

IAFG wrote:
rayiner wrote:On this note: how should I pay my loans while I'm a SCOTUS clerk? I'm just a 0L right now, but I feel like that based on my extensive involvement in campus activities in college that I've got a great shot! Just trying to plan ahead, thanks.

OP said, "just curious." nothing wrong with wondering how the process works.


If he has to ask this, his reseach skills aren't up to par.

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jrwhitedog
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby jrwhitedog » Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:58 pm

Rand M. wrote:
bigben wrote:They probably take a portion of their relatively large salary and use it to pay their loans.


This. A lot of the discussion ITT has missed what the OP actually asked, which is a puzzling question.


Yeah, I know law professors make a good fortune. But the assistant's prof's salary is just like half the associates' in law firms while they both need to pay the same amount of loans. Unless you come from a rich family,who wants to be a professor?

bigben
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby bigben » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:02 pm

Stats pretty much necessary, but not sufficient, to become a law prof (rough guidelines):

hys - top 10-20%
t14 - top 5%
t25 - top 1%
rest - miracle

Other stats of a typical canidate:

LR
COA
practice experience at a top firm or high profile fed govt
non-student academic publications
academic recs

Cite: http://ww3.lawschool.cornell.edu/facult ... aching.htm
Last edited by bigben on Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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IAFG
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby IAFG » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:02 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:
Rand M. wrote:
bigben wrote:They probably take a portion of their relatively large salary and use it to pay their loans.


This. A lot of the discussion ITT has missed what the OP actually asked, which is a puzzling question.


Yeah, I know law professors make a good fortune. But the assistant's prof's salary is just like half the associates' in law firms while they both need to pay the same amount of loans. Unless you come from a rich family,who wants to be a professor?

http://www.law.yale.edu/admissions/COAP.htm

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romothesavior
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby romothesavior » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:11 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:
Rand M. wrote:
bigben wrote:They probably take a portion of their relatively large salary and use it to pay their loans.


This. A lot of the discussion ITT has missed what the OP actually asked, which is a puzzling question.


Yeah, I know law professors make a good fortune. But the assistant's prof's salary is just like half the associates' in law firms while they both need to pay the same amount of loans. Unless you come from a rich family,who wants to be a professor?


Uh.... what? Being a law prof is probably one of the best positions in the entire profession. Solid pay, great hours, very prestigious, you get to deal with issues that interest you rather than do mundane and grueling bitch work at a law firm, you get your summers off, etc.

bigben
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Re: Anyone who became a law professor right after graduation?

Postby bigben » Sun Oct 03, 2010 3:14 pm

jrwhitedog wrote:
Rand M. wrote:
bigben wrote:They probably take a portion of their relatively large salary and use it to pay their loans.


This. A lot of the discussion ITT has missed what the OP actually asked, which is a puzzling question.


Yeah, I know law professors make a good fortune. But the assistant's prof's salary is just like half the associates' in law firms while they both need to pay the same amount of loans. Unless you come from a rich family,who wants to be a professor?

Let's see. Law professors have a MUCH less stressful and much less demanding job than biglaw. Arguably more interesting. They make more than other professors. As a biglaw associate you can pretty much count on being pushed out after 3-5 years, at which point you will take some other job that pays less. Or you will just get laid off and not find any decent job. Some profs make a ton of money on the side through consulting and royalties. Some people are just natural scholars.




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