Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

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thatsnotmyname
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Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby thatsnotmyname » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:40 pm

OK, this is a question because I've heard that the whole NLJ go-to schools data (http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1) is misleading b/c it's from 2007 and doesn't include incoming associates that got deferred (right?).

So... what is a more realistic, up-to-date estimate of studnts from each law school getting biglaw/federal clerkships/academia/prestigious PI/gov work?

This is what I'm guessing, would you say it's accurate:

YHS: 90%
CCN: 65%
MVPBDN:45-50%
CG:40%
Texas, Vandy, USC, UCLA: 30-35%
Strong Regionals (BC, BU, Fordham, GW...): 25-30%

Would you guys say that this is over optimistic/pessimistic?

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RVP11
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby RVP11 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:57 pm

ITE:

YS: 90%
H: 80%
CC: 70%
N: 60%
MVPBDCN: 50%
G: 40%
UT/Vandy/UCLA/USC: 20% to 25%
BC/BU/Fordham/GW: 10% to 15%
Most other T50s: under 10%

Probably a little optimistic.

And keep in mind that a few years ago it was probably around 80-90%, even at MVPBDCN.

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swc65
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby swc65 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:02 pm

I keep getting conflicting information as to whether those NLJ250 numbers include or exclude deferred associates. If it includes them, then those numbers are troubling. If it excludes them then they are not that bad since they might reflect the actual market because the excess associates were deferred.

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doyleoil
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby doyleoil » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:03 pm

RVP11 wrote:ITE:

YS: 90%
H: 80%
CC: 70%
N: 60%
MVPBDCN: 50%
G: 40%
UT/Vandy/UCLA/USC: 20% to 25%
BC/BU/Fordham/GW: 10% to 15%
Most other T50s: under 10%

Probably a little optimistic.

And keep in mind that a few years ago it was probably around 80-90%, even at MVPBDCN.


I actually don't think there's that big a difference between NYU and its peers.

spondee
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby spondee » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:05 pm

Yeah, NYU's success rate at EIW last year was 70%.

dakatz
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby dakatz » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:06 pm

RVP11 wrote:ITE:

YS: 90%
H: 80%
CC: 70%
N: 60%
MVPBDCN: 50%
G: 40%
UT/Vandy/UCLA/USC: 20% to 25%
BC/BU/Fordham/GW: 10% to 15%
Most other T50s: under 10%

Probably a little optimistic.

And keep in mind that a few years ago it was probably around 80-90%, even at MVPBDCN.


I know a bunch of people around the top 20%-30% mark at GW/BU/Fordham and a solid number of them have big firm offers. Maybe they are the outliers among their peers, but 10%-15% seems a bit too conservative a guess for that range of strong regional schools.

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Doritos
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby Doritos » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:10 pm

I think it bears noting that the percentages do not directly correlate to their class rank. To account for URMs, work experience, great interviewers, bid strategy, etc. you have to realize there will be outliers. There could be a top 1/3 candidate @ a school w/ no biglaw and a below median candidate who got it.

dakatz
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby dakatz » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:16 pm

Doritos wrote:I think it bears noting that the percentages do not directly correlate to their class rank. To account for URMs, work experience, great interviewers, bid strategy, etc. you have to realize there will be outliers. There could be a top 1/3 candidate @ a school w/ no biglaw and a below median candidate who got it.


Good point

dissonance1848
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:16 pm

The CC 70%, N 60% is off. Chicago's legal market and DCs are really bad compared to NYCs, so NYU is better off than U of C.

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IAFG
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby IAFG » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:17 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:The CC 70%, N 60% is off. Chicago's legal market and DCs are really bad compared to NYCs, so NYU is better off than U of C.

this would be valid if U of C placed primarily in Chicago

dissonance1848
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:20 pm

Also, it is clear that MVPB do better than NDC in general. They should not be lumped together.

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doyleoil
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby doyleoil » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:21 pm

Honestly, I frankly don't give a shit either way, but people acting confident about OCI statistics cracks me the hell up. No one knows for sure what the placement rates are right now, not even the people going through it.

TYIA.

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IAFG
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby IAFG » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:22 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Also, it is clear that MVPB do better than NDC in general. They should not be lumped together.

lol @ berkeley OCI wtf are you talking about

dissonance1848
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby dissonance1848 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:23 pm

Right, U of C will compete with NYU in NYC, what with NYU's strength being alumni? I don't think so. Chicago is U of C's backup, and with it going to hell, they have to compete head to head with NYU, where nearly everyone is intent on staying in NYC. Check out U of C's OCI vs. NYU. I think you will be a bit surprised.

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IAFG
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby IAFG » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:23 pm

doyleoil wrote:Honestly, I frankly don't give a shit either way, but people acting confident about OCI statistics cracks me the hell up. No one knows for sure what the placement rates are right now, not even the people going through it.

TYIA.

it's funnier to think that grades guarantee you anything. if you suck as a person top X% isn't going to get you shit

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IAFG
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby IAFG » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:24 pm

dissonance1848 wrote:Check out U of C's OCI vs. NYU

by all means, educate me

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doyleoil
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby doyleoil » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:26 pm

IAFG wrote:
doyleoil wrote:Honestly, I frankly don't give a shit either way, but people acting confident about OCI statistics cracks me the hell up. No one knows for sure what the placement rates are right now, not even the people going through it.

TYIA.

it's funnier to think that grades guarantee you anything. if you suck as a person top X% isn't going to get you shit


Nah, you just have to find a firm full of assholes. Which isn't too bad.

revolution724
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby revolution724 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:28 pm

Biglaw doesn't exist anymore, what are you talking about?

miamiman
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby miamiman » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:29 pm

Doyle's right in the sense that noone fucking knows.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:45 pm

IAFG wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:The CC 70%, N 60% is off. Chicago's legal market and DCs are really bad compared to NYCs, so NYU is better off than U of C.

this would be valid if U of C placed primarily in Chicago



One thing I'm beginning to realize about TLS is that there is this automatic assumption that everyone wants to work in NYC, and therefore if a school places better in NY it's automatically a better school. This seems to apply even if that school places worse everywhere else.

RVP11 wrote:ITE:

YS: 90%
H: 80%
CC: 70%
N: 60%
MVPBDCN: 50%
G: 40%
UT/Vandy/UCLA/USC: 20% to 25%
BC/BU/Fordham/GW: 10% to 15%
Most other T50s: under 10%

Probably a little optimistic.

And keep in mind that a few years ago it was probably around 80-90%, even at MVPBDCN.


TLS has a very weird infatuation with Stanford. I think this may be the only place in the world where Harvard is seen as below Stanford.

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beach_terror
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby beach_terror » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:51 pm

BruceWayne wrote:
IAFG wrote:
dissonance1848 wrote:The CC 70%, N 60% is off. Chicago's legal market and DCs are really bad compared to NYCs, so NYU is better off than U of C.

this would be valid if U of C placed primarily in Chicago



One thing I'm beginning to realize about TLS is that there is this automatic assumption that everyone wants to work in NYC, and therefore if a school places better in NY it's automatically a better school. This seems to apply even if that school places worse everywhere else.

RVP11 wrote:ITE:

YS: 90%
H: 80%
CC: 70%
N: 60%
MVPBDCN: 50%
G: 40%
UT/Vandy/UCLA/USC: 20% to 25%
BC/BU/Fordham/GW: 10% to 15%
Most other T50s: under 10%

Probably a little optimistic.

And keep in mind that a few years ago it was probably around 80-90%, even at MVPBDCN.


TLS has a very weird infatuation with Stanford. I think this may be the only place in the world where Harvard is seen as below Stanford.


I think TLS groups Stanford the way it does is because it's essentially the Yale of the west coast. It's not that S > H, it's S location > H location.

miamiman
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby miamiman » Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:58 pm

Or that its exponentially easier to place 180 than 550.

Yeah, or that.

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BruceWayne
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:00 pm

miamiman wrote:Or that its exponentially easier to place 180 than 550.

Yeah, or that.


Yet this line of reasoning goes out the window when you're comparing say Penn to NYU (240 or so versus close to 500 students). Other than conjecture there's no objective information saying Stanford places better than Harvard (actually if anything the info would lean the opposite direction). People on here like Stanford better because it's harder to get into---TLS is obsessed with the idea of selectivity for the sake of being selective.

bigben
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby bigben » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:02 pm

RVP11 wrote:YS: 90%
H: 80%
CC: 70%
N: 60%
MVPBDCN: 50%
G: 40%
UT/Vandy/UCLA/USC: 20% to 25%
BC/BU/Fordham/GW: 10% to 15%
Most other T50s: under 10%

This looks roughly accurate. I don't think I would separate NYU, but other than that it looks good.

Also Boalt is a bit of an unknown quantity to me. I've heard some indication that it might be struggling, with placement looking more like GULC. Not sure though.
Last edited by bigben on Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

miamiman
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Re: Percentage of students that could've gotten biglaw from...

Postby miamiman » Sun Sep 12, 2010 4:02 pm

Lol, ok. Nyu and penn receive the same reception from employers.




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