How marketable is being multilingual?

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Ersatz Haderach
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby Ersatz Haderach » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:29 pm

Noval wrote:
Total Litigator wrote:
Noval wrote:
Thanks for reminding me this is a Lawyer forum...Aka Douchebag's Paradise.


Your polyglot thing is a footnote to your post. You should make your own post and be more specific what it is you're asking if you want to get real responses.

Of course you have a "decent chance".

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DoubleChecks
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby DoubleChecks » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:33 pm

when ppl say being 'fluent' in x language is marketable...how fluent do you have to be?

or rather, what if you speak the language fluently but do not know how to really read or write in it?

r6_philly
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby r6_philly » Thu Oct 14, 2010 9:52 pm

DoubleChecks wrote:when ppl say being 'fluent' in x language is marketable...how fluent do you have to be?

or rather, what if you speak the language fluently but do not know how to really read or write in it?


I thought fluent means you have good command of the language, which should include reading and writing.

ajmanyjah
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby ajmanyjah » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:22 am

Noval wrote:How would a candidate who has a Business degree ( Finance & Advanced Mathematics ) and LL.B.(McGill) + MBA(McGill) speaking
English, French, Arabic and Spanish fluently do in the U.S. market ? I am in the process of learning Chinese and German.

I have Canadian BigLaw exeperience ( McCarthy & Tetrault ) and i'm looking to work in U.S. ( Either NYC or Boston.)

Do i have a good shot or do i need to do some networking before having a decent chance ?
I want either U.S. BigLaw or Inhouse Counsel in a decent sized company.

I specialized in Corporate Law but also worked with Business Litigation and Entertainment Law.

My final GPAs were:

3.95 for Business.
3.93 for Law.
4.0 for my MBA.

+ i got several recommendation letters from Deans, Firm partners and influential Law Teachers.


Do you really have to academically dicksize? Lame

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DoubleChecks
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Oct 15, 2010 12:46 am

r6_philly wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:when ppl say being 'fluent' in x language is marketable...how fluent do you have to be?

or rather, what if you speak the language fluently but do not know how to really read or write in it?


I thought fluent means you have good command of the language, which should include reading and writing.


yeah, i used to think that too, but after googling it, fluent apparently applies to either speaking ability or writing ability

fluent:
–adjective
1.
spoken or written with ease: fluent french.
2.
able to speak or write smoothly, easily, or readily: a fluent speaker; fluent in six languages.

http://www.dictionary.com

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Shooter
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby Shooter » Fri Oct 15, 2010 1:00 am

Being multilingual certainly never hurts. Like you would do with any other skill or ability, leverage your assets and use them to find a niche. Worst case scenario, a law firm doesn't need you to speak a foreign language, but they respect the fact that you are a well-rounded, intellectually stimulating person.

r6_philly
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:32 am

DoubleChecks wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:when ppl say being 'fluent' in x language is marketable...how fluent do you have to be?

or rather, what if you speak the language fluently but do not know how to really read or write in it?


I thought fluent means you have good command of the language, which should include reading and writing.


yeah, i used to think that too, but after googling it, fluent apparently applies to either speaking ability or writing ability

fluent:
–adjective
1.
spoken or written with ease: fluent french.
2.
able to speak or write smoothly, easily, or readily: a fluent speaker; fluent in six languages.

http://www.dictionary.com


So that means I am fluent in English! :lol:

What do you call an native English speaker who is fluent in English but can't read or write? Illiterate.

Maybe it would be marketable here where a foreign language is a foreign language. I can't picture it being as marketable in the native land of the language.

One could also argue how does one get "fluent" without being able to read/write? Since to properly learn a language you would either have to be a native speaker or learn through reading. If you are native then you are really illiterate. If you learned as a second language you should be able to read. If you learned orally only then your command can't be that great or in depth.

Sorry sounds like I am arguing just to argue.

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Noval
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby Noval » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:44 pm

ajmanyjah wrote:
Noval wrote:How would a candidate who has a Business degree ( Finance & Advanced Mathematics ) and LL.B.(McGill) + MBA(McGill) speaking
English, French, Arabic and Spanish fluently do in the U.S. market ? I am in the process of learning Chinese and German.

I have Canadian BigLaw exeperience ( McCarthy & Tetrault ) and i'm looking to work in U.S. ( Either NYC or Boston.)

Do i have a good shot or do i need to do some networking before having a decent chance ?
I want either U.S. BigLaw or Inhouse Counsel in a decent sized company.

I specialized in Corporate Law but also worked with Business Litigation and Entertainment Law.

My final GPAs were:

3.95 for Business.
3.93 for Law.
4.0 for my MBA.

+ i got several recommendation letters from Deans, Firm partners and influential Law Teachers.


Do you really have to academically dicksize? Lame


When you ask a question, it's logically good to list everything to get decent answers.
But i understand your jealousy...Where do you study ? Oklahoma Law ? Good job.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Oct 15, 2010 8:44 pm

r6_philly wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:when ppl say being 'fluent' in x language is marketable...how fluent do you have to be?

or rather, what if you speak the language fluently but do not know how to really read or write in it?


I thought fluent means you have good command of the language, which should include reading and writing.


yeah, i used to think that too, but after googling it, fluent apparently applies to either speaking ability or writing ability

fluent:
–adjective
1.
spoken or written with ease: fluent french.
2.
able to speak or write smoothly, easily, or readily: a fluent speaker; fluent in six languages.

http://www.dictionary.com


So that means I am fluent in English! :lol:

What do you call an native English speaker who is fluent in English but can't read or write? Illiterate.

Maybe it would be marketable here where a foreign language is a foreign language. I can't picture it being as marketable in the native land of the language.

One could also argue how does one get "fluent" without being able to read/write? Since to properly learn a language you would either have to be a native speaker or learn through reading. If you are native then you are really illiterate. If you learned as a second language you should be able to read. If you learned orally only then your command can't be that great or in depth.

Sorry sounds like I am arguing just to argue.


you'd technically be a fluent speaker of english, but unable to read or write -- that may make you illiterate in english but by most definitions, i wouldnt say you were 'illiterate' because english (presumably in this hypo?) is your second language...you're still a native speaker of some other language..and as long as you can read/write in that one, i dont think that constitutes general illiteracy

and i really only care about how marketable fluency in a language is in relation to getting a job w/ a US law firm, though they may send me to an international office. i dont mean, how marketable is the fluency if i were to randomly move to x country and try to find some job there.

finally, i can easily think of a way a person could be a fluent speaker but not know how to read or write. i mean, thats me! lol, i grew up speaking a 'foreign' language in my household. it was/is the only language i speak when home. however, having grown up in america, i never took classes to learn how to read or write in that language (maybe im at a first grade lvl?). i visit my parents' native country decently often, almost every summer. for all intents and purposes, im definitely a fluent speaker. i would never say i am fluent in reading or writing.

r6_philly
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby r6_philly » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:02 pm

That's understandable. I may also add that if you look the part, they usually expect you to speak the language if you deal with international clients. I do understand your dilemma. If you put down fluent in x, I think people would presume you can read/write. I guess I would put down fluent in spoken x or something so people don't feel that you are misrepresenting. It may also get kind of awkward if you were called upon to deal with clients then being unable to perform because you can't read or write.

So I guess it is marketable with risks.

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DoubleChecks
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby DoubleChecks » Fri Oct 15, 2010 9:21 pm

r6_philly wrote:That's understandable. I may also add that if you look the part, they usually expect you to speak the language if you deal with international clients. I do understand your dilemma. If you put down fluent in x, I think people would presume you can read/write. I guess I would put down fluent in spoken x or something so people don't feel that you are misrepresenting. It may also get kind of awkward if you were called upon to deal with clients then being unable to perform because you can't read or write.

So I guess it is marketable with risks.


for these same reasons, i am seriously considering spending some of my down time w/ rosetta stone hahaha

ajmanyjah
Posts: 263
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2010 4:51 pm

Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby ajmanyjah » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:06 am

Noval wrote:
ajmanyjah wrote:
Noval wrote:How would a candidate who has a Business degree ( Finance & Advanced Mathematics ) and LL.B.(McGill) + MBA(McGill) speaking
English, French, Arabic and Spanish fluently do in the U.S. market ? I am in the process of learning Chinese and German.

I have Canadian BigLaw exeperience ( McCarthy & Tetrault ) and i'm looking to work in U.S. ( Either NYC or Boston.)

Do i have a good shot or do i need to do some networking before having a decent chance ?
I want either U.S. BigLaw or Inhouse Counsel in a decent sized company.

I specialized in Corporate Law but also worked with Business Litigation and Entertainment Law.

My final GPAs were:

3.95 for Business.
3.93 for Law.
4.0 for my MBA.

+ i got several recommendation letters from Deans, Firm partners and influential Law Teachers.


Do you really have to academically dicksize? Lame


When you ask a question, it's logically good to list everything to get decent answers.
But i understand your jealousy...Where do you study ? Oklahoma Law ? Good job.



I went to McGill...dumbass

And I didn't major in something as easy as business (though it looks like he probably went to a crappier undergrad then McGill or he would have listed it)

Him putting his UG GPA, specific schools, specific firms...in a thread that has nothing to do with him...but there were plenty like him, especially in business, at McGill...even though McGill is one of the easiest Faculties in McGill to get into

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applepiecrust
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby applepiecrust » Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:32 am

r6_philly wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:
r6_philly wrote:
DoubleChecks wrote:when ppl say being 'fluent' in x language is marketable...how fluent do you have to be?

or rather, what if you speak the language fluently but do not know how to really read or write in it?


I thought fluent means you have good command of the language, which should include reading and writing.


yeah, i used to think that too, but after googling it, fluent apparently applies to either speaking ability or writing ability

fluent:
–adjective
1.
spoken or written with ease: fluent french.
2.
able to speak or write smoothly, easily, or readily: a fluent speaker; fluent in six languages.

http://www.dictionary.com


So that means I am fluent in English! :lol:

What do you call an native English speaker who is fluent in English but can't read or write? Illiterate.

Maybe it would be marketable here where a foreign language is a foreign language. I can't picture it being as marketable in the native land of the language.

One could also argue how does one get "fluent" without being able to read/write? Since to properly learn a language you would either have to be a native speaker or learn through reading. If you are native then you are really illiterate. If you learned as a second language you should be able to read. If you learned orally only then your command can't be that great or in depth.

Sorry sounds like I am arguing just to argue.


I guess you could be illiterate so far as that language is concerned but not illiterate in general. I can speak five languages, understand (spoken/written -- but the two don't overlap) up to 8 on a good day (i.e. when I'm feeling sharp), but I can only speak, read AND write three. I'm certainly not illiterate in general, but yes, I'm illiterate so far as all the other languages are concerned.

solidsnake
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby solidsnake » Sun Oct 17, 2010 1:10 am

For purposes of legal hiring, fluent means you can ace the interview(s) in the target language and answer the same sort of questions, with the same sort of sophistication, you would were the interview conducted in your native language. Of course, as with any good (legal) interview, you need to be able to make interesting smalltalk/asides so as to click with the interviewer intellectually; and it's probably in this improvisatory riffing that the interviewer truly considers just how comfortable the interviewee is in the target language.

Good luck, all.

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gwuorbust
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby gwuorbust » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:02 pm

if you are just looking at OCI then it might be a minimal to smallish boost, though grades will probably be the biggest determinate. that said, you should utilize your skills outside of OCI. don't wait for the jobs to come to you, go to them. and in this case that prob means networking in ways that would allow you to show that you have valuable skills that extended beyond your classroom experience. if you talk lawyers (aka potential employers) about the BRIC nations, describe your area of the law, blah, blah and drop that you can speak XYZ then you will be much more memorable.

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iShotFirst
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby iShotFirst » Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:13 pm

Noval wrote:How would a candidate who has a Business degree ( Finance & Advanced Mathematics ) and LL.B.(McGill) + MBA(McGill) speaking
English, French, Arabic and Spanish fluently do in the U.S. market ? I am in the process of learning Chinese and German.

I have Canadian BigLaw exeperience ( McCarthy & Tetrault ) and i'm looking to work in U.S. ( Either NYC or Boston.)

Do i have a good shot or do i need to do some networking before having a decent chance ?
I want either U.S. BigLaw or Inhouse Counsel in a decent sized company.

I specialized in Corporate Law but also worked with Business Litigation and Entertainment Law.

My final GPAs were:

3.95 for Business.
3.93 for Law.
4.0 for my MBA.

+ i got several recommendation letters from Deans, Firm partners and influential Law Teachers.


I dont know how marketable your Canadian law degree would be in the US. I mean, a firm might not want to hire you and then wait around for you to pass the bar exam in the state you chose. without connections, you'd definitely have to contact the bar association in the state of your choice and see what you have to do - I know that if you take a US degree to Canada you need to do extra classes, so you might even have to do that! Better do more research first.

CanadianWolf
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:09 pm

The Mandarin dialect of Chinese, Portuguese & Spanish are probably strong resume enhancers. In the remaining BRIC countries, Russia & India, English is widely spoken & written. Language fluency probably complements an MBA degree more than a law degree, however, since native speakers should be used to draft & proofread legal documents in other languages.

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Noval
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby Noval » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:57 pm

iShotFirst wrote:
Noval wrote:How would a candidate who has a Business degree ( Finance & Advanced Mathematics ) and LL.B.(McGill) + MBA(McGill) speaking
English, French, Arabic and Spanish fluently do in the U.S. market ? I am in the process of learning Chinese and German.

I have Canadian BigLaw exeperience ( McCarthy & Tetrault ) and i'm looking to work in U.S. ( Either NYC or Boston.)

Do i have a good shot or do i need to do some networking before having a decent chance ?
I want either U.S. BigLaw or Inhouse Counsel in a decent sized company.

I specialized in Corporate Law but also worked with Business Litigation and Entertainment Law.

My final GPAs were:

3.95 for Business.
3.93 for Law.
4.0 for my MBA.

+ i got several recommendation letters from Deans, Firm partners and influential Law Teachers.


I dont know how marketable your Canadian law degree would be in the US. I mean, a firm might not want to hire you and then wait around for you to pass the bar exam in the state you chose. without connections, you'd definitely have to contact the bar association in the state of your choice and see what you have to do - I know that if you take a US degree to Canada you need to do extra classes, so you might even have to do that! Better do more research first.



I already have my license to practice in NY.
Thanks for the advice.

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Noval
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby Noval » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:00 pm

ajmanyjah wrote:
Noval wrote:
ajmanyjah wrote:
Noval wrote:How would a candidate who has a Business degree ( Finance & Advanced Mathematics ) and LL.B.(McGill) + MBA(McGill) speaking
English, French, Arabic and Spanish fluently do in the U.S. market ? I am in the process of learning Chinese and German.

I have Canadian BigLaw exeperience ( McCarthy & Tetrault ) and i'm looking to work in U.S. ( Either NYC or Boston.)

Do i have a good shot or do i need to do some networking before having a decent chance ?
I want either U.S. BigLaw or Inhouse Counsel in a decent sized company.

I specialized in Corporate Law but also worked with Business Litigation and Entertainment Law.

My final GPAs were:

3.95 for Business.
3.93 for Law.
4.0 for my MBA.

+ i got several recommendation letters from Deans, Firm partners and influential Law Teachers.


Do you really have to academically dicksize? Lame


When you ask a question, it's logically good to list everything to get decent answers.
But i understand your jealousy...Where do you study ? Oklahoma Law ? Good job.



I went to McGill...dumbass

And I didn't major in something as easy as business (though it looks like he probably went to a crappier undergrad then McGill or he would have listed it)

Him putting his UG GPA, specific schools, specific firms...in a thread that has nothing to do with him...but there were plenty like him, especially in business, at McGill...even though McGill is one of the easiest Faculties in McGill to get into


No you didn't, otherwise you would know that McGill is not the easiest to get into, 170 places and 1545 applications for 2010 cycle, you find that easy ? Dumb fuck.

It's virtually impossible to get there without a 3.8 and tons of ECs.
I did my Business degree at HEC Montreal, Finance is not easy and i'm sure dumb asses like you would say that a Political Science degree is "harder" just to make yourselves feel better.

ajmanyjah
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby ajmanyjah » Tue Oct 26, 2010 2:21 am

Noval wrote:I went to McGill...dumbass

And I didn't major in something as easy as business (though it looks like he probably went to a crappier undergrad then McGill or he would have listed it)

Him putting his UG GPA, specific schools, specific firms...in a thread that has nothing to do with him...but there were plenty like him, especially in business, at McGill...even though McGill is one of the easiest Faculties in McGill to get into


No you didn't, otherwise you would know that McGill is not the easiest to get into, 170 places and 1545 applications for 2010 cycle, you find that easy ? Dumb fuck.

It's virtually impossible to get there without a 3.8 and tons of ECs.
I did my Business degree at HEC Montreal, Finance is not easy and i'm sure dumb asses like you would say that a Political Science degree is "harder" just to make yourselves feel better.[/quote]


I meant that business was one of the easiest faculties to get into at McGill---I may have mistyped. Also, Arts isn't that hard to get into (or graduate from)...nice try though. I went to one of the three faculties that does real live research, and if you went there you could name them (and just by percentages, guess which faculty I was in)

Not to mention, you pointed out you went to McGill for your MBA, not HEC (though you being fluent in Spanish also then starts to make sense)

Make a new thread...and stop being like all the business kids from McGill who flaunt the McGill name from day 1 UG (even though McGill made its name in science and medicine)

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Noval
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby Noval » Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:01 pm

ajmanyjah wrote:
Noval wrote:I went to McGill...dumbass

And I didn't major in something as easy as business (though it looks like he probably went to a crappier undergrad then McGill or he would have listed it)

Him putting his UG GPA, specific schools, specific firms...in a thread that has nothing to do with him...but there were plenty like him, especially in business, at McGill...even though McGill is one of the easiest Faculties in McGill to get into


No you didn't, otherwise you would know that McGill is not the easiest to get into, 170 places and 1545 applications for 2010 cycle, you find that easy ? Dumb fuck.

It's virtually impossible to get there without a 3.8 and tons of ECs.
I did my Business degree at HEC Montreal, Finance is not easy and i'm sure dumb asses like you would say that a Political Science degree is "harder" just to make yourselves feel better.



I meant that business was one of the easiest faculties to get into at McGill---I may have mistyped. Also, Arts isn't that hard to get into (or graduate from)...nice try though. I went to one of the three faculties that does real live research, and if you went there you could name them (and just by percentages, guess which faculty I was in)

Not to mention, you pointed out you went to McGill for your MBA, not HEC (though you being fluent in Spanish also then starts to make sense)

Make a new thread...and stop being like all the business kids from McGill who flaunt the McGill name from day 1 UG (even though McGill made its name in science and medicine)[/quote]

You obviously made no sense, ignorance at it's best. GTFO :arrow:

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goingeast
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby goingeast » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:04 pm

I have simply put "advanced/intermediate/basic proficiency" for each respective language. Most academic CVs that I have looked at indicate language expertise/ability in this way, including one of my favorites professors from UG, who listed his language skills simply as "advanced proficiency" on his CV, even though he was publishing his own translations of French, Spanish and Italian literature.

Then again, putting "near-native speaker" down sounds pretty badass, and probably helps anyone's chances of scoring with the hottie interviewer.

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AreJay711
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby AreJay711 » Tue Oct 26, 2010 11:37 pm

Sure Portuguese might be beneficial in the business world but any Brazilian clients dealing with U.S. biglaw firms have people that can speak English. It might help you for the right firms but the U.S. is a much larger trading partner in China and Japan than Brazil. Plus, Brazilian companies don't really invest in the U.S. like Asian ones do -- most of the bilateral capital flow is U.S. investment in Brazil and profit flow back to the U.S. not much the other way around. This explains why it's important in business but for U.S. law firms the demand would come from U.S. firms that invested in Brazil not companies from Brazil.

r6_philly
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby r6_philly » Wed Oct 27, 2010 12:40 am

goingeast wrote:I have simply put "advanced/intermediate/basic proficiency" for each respective language. Most academic CVs that I have looked at indicate language expertise/ability in this way, including one of my favorites professors from UG, who listed his language skills simply as "advanced proficiency" on his CV, even though he was publishing his own translations of French, Spanish and Italian literature.

Then again, putting "near-native speaker" down sounds pretty badass, and probably helps anyone's chances of scoring with the hottie interviewer.


How do you put "native speaker" on your resume without giving people the impression that your English is not at native level? My English is indeed better than Chinese at this point (if you can believe that).

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nphsbuckeye
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Re: How marketable is being multilingual?

Postby nphsbuckeye » Wed Oct 27, 2010 2:06 am

Noval wrote:How would a candidate who has a Business degree ( Finance & Advanced Mathematics ) and LL.B.(McGill) + MBA(McGill) speaking
English, French, Arabic and Spanish fluently do in the U.S. market ? I am in the process of learning Chinese and German.

I have Canadian BigLaw exeperience ( McCarthy & Tetrault ) and i'm looking to work in U.S. ( Either NYC or Boston.)

Do i have a good shot or do i need to do some networking before having a decent chance ?
I want either U.S. BigLaw or Inhouse Counsel in a decent sized company.

I specialized in Corporate Law but also worked with Business Litigation and Entertainment Law.

My final GPAs were:

3.95 for Business.
3.93 for Law.
4.0 for my MBA.

+ i got several recommendation letters from Deans, Firm partners and influential Law Teachers.

I thought this was definitely a flame at first but am no longer sure.




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