What Should I Expect?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
Hamlet2010
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Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:02 pm

What Should I Expect?

Postby Hamlet2010 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:11 pm

Hello, I am a IL student at law school. Right now, I am faced with a decision that threatens
to forever ruin my dreams of becoming a lawyer.

Shortly after I went off to college, my OCD spiraled out of control and I was unable to
concentrate on my work for any reasonable length of time. Subsequently, I resorted to
cheating in order to maintain a decent GPA. In the fall semester of my senior year, I was
caught by one of my professors and given a failing grade. I cheated once more without
getting caught before putting a stop to it altogether. Even with all this baggage, I some-
how managed to get into law school.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot shake off the guilt I feel for getting into a fairly respectable
law school with a record that should be far more tarnished than it already is. For the past year,
I have debated on whether or not I should go before the honor council at my college and notify
them of the full extent I was cheating.

My strategy for the time being is to use the career service center here to land me a job by the
end of my first year so I can still maintain a steady stream of income should I decide to drop out
and go before the Honor Council. With that being said, I am writing to find out what kind of reper-
cussions I should expect and whether there is any sense in me maintaining hopes for a legal career
should I decide to go through with this course of action.

xyzzzzzzzz
Posts: 463
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:28 pm

Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:19 pm

Hamlet2010 wrote:Hello, I am a IL student at law school. Right now, I am faced with a decision that threatens
to forever ruin my dreams of becoming a lawyer.

Shortly after I went off to college, my OCD spiraled out of control and I was unable to
concentrate on my work for any reasonable length of time. Subsequently, I resorted to
cheating in order to maintain a decent GPA. In the fall semester of my senior year, I was
caught by one of my professors and given a failing grade. I cheated once more without
getting caught before putting a stop to it altogether. Even with all this baggage, I some-
how managed to get into law school.

No matter how hard I try, I cannot shake off the guilt I feel for getting into a fairly respectable
law school with a record that should be far more tarnished than it already is. For the past year,
I have debated on whether or not I should go before the honor council at my college and notify
them of the full extent I was cheating.

My strategy for the time being is to use the career service center here to land me a job by the
end of my first year so I can still maintain a steady stream of income should I decide to drop out
and go before the Honor Council. With that being said, I am writing to find out what kind of reper-
cussions I should expect and whether there is any sense in me maintaining hopes for a legal career
should I decide to go through with this course of action.



Serial actions of academic impropriety are serious- enough to get students expelled. But, I'm confused, since you said you are a 1L. Are you talking about going before your ug honor council or in law school? Is it even possible to go before your ug council if you have graduated? Are you going to the same school you did ug with?

2011Law
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby 2011Law » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:30 pm

Christ man, have you never been to the movies? All law is about is cheating and stealing the most you can get away with. If you're so soft that you can't handle the guilt of cheating as an undergrad, then you should find a different line of work.

Just kidding... sorta.

Hamlet2010
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Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:02 pm

Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Hamlet2010 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:34 pm

No, I'm at a different institution in a separate state.

xyzzzzzzzz
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Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:28 pm

Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:41 pm

Hamlet2010 wrote:No, I'm at a different institution in a separate state.


I'm not sure it is possible to be retroactively punished for cheating, especially if it wasn't documented.

Hamlet2010
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Hamlet2010 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:45 pm

Perhaps, but what worries me is that I might have to go before the Character and
Fitness Committee regarding the test I cheated on in the past. I have the feeling
that they are going to ask me if it was an isolated incident. Considering that I've
resolved never to get by through academic dishonesty ever again, I'm pretty much
screwed if I find myself in that situation. Are they likely to ask me that question?

xyzzzzzzzz
Posts: 463
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:28 pm

Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:48 pm

Hamlet2010 wrote:Perhaps, but what worries me is that I might have to go before the Character and
Fitness Committee regarding the test I cheated on in the past. I have the feeling
that they are going to ask me if it was an isolated incident. Considering that I've
resolved never to get by through academic dishonesty ever again, I'm pretty much
screwed if I find myself in that situation. Are they likely to ask me that question?


I have no idea about that. But if you didn't disclose this on your apps, (I'm guessing you didn't), that could raise flags.

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Patriot1208
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Patriot1208 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:52 pm

Hamlet2010 wrote:Perhaps, but what worries me is that I might have to go before the Character and
Fitness Committee regarding the test I cheated on in the past. I have the feeling
that they are going to ask me if it was an isolated incident. Considering that I've
resolved never to get by through academic dishonesty ever again, I'm pretty much
screwed if I find myself in that situation. Are they likely to ask me that question?


When they ask you, lie. You aren't going to be getting a lie detector test and if there was only one documented incident you can't be held liable for other times. They aren't going to bring up your roomate and have him testify against you.

Hamlet2010
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Joined: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:02 pm

Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Hamlet2010 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:56 pm

To xyzzzzzzzz,

By "this", are you referring to the time I was caught cheating or the string of
cheating incidents that went undocumented?

xyzzzzzzzz
Posts: 463
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:28 pm

Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:27 pm

Hamlet2010 wrote:To xyzzzzzzzz,

By "this", are you referring to the time I was caught cheating or the string of
cheating incidents that went undocumented?


this= the times you didn't get caught. And it only matters if you bring it up later.

Hamlet2010
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Hamlet2010 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:28 pm

Let's say I do disclose it before I go before the bar. What then?

xyzzzzzzzz
Posts: 463
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby xyzzzzzzzz » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:45 pm

Hamlet2010 wrote:Let's say I do disclose it before I go before the bar. What then?


Do you plan on going back to your ug to go through a hearing? Honestly, I'm not sure you could even do this. What are expecting to get out of all of this? If you really want solace go to therapy or a priest. I doubt your LS can do anything about this in terms of punishment.

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northwood
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby northwood » Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:47 pm

if you disclose that you were a compulsive cheater, you could be kicked out of school and blacklisted from the legal community. This record will also follow you to any other school that you want to apply to, and may bar your entrance. If your conscience is keeping you up at night, then perhaps the best recourse would be to simply drop out. I dont think you can get punished after your graduation, since your record is sealed. The question is, do you want to be a lawyer/ If you do, then stay in school, and recognize that you were lucky in undergraduate school. Many people have done things in the past that they got away with that they regret. It doesnt make it right, but no one is perfect.

Pablo Ramirez
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Pablo Ramirez » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:02 pm

DONT EVER CHEAT AGAIN.

That said, find forgiveness within. Find forgiveness in knowing that you're a better person because of your resolve to never commit such acts again.

Your anxiety and guilt are punishment enough.

Hamlet2010
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Hamlet2010 » Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:27 pm

Pablo Ramirez wrote:DONT EVER CHEAT AGAIN.

That said, find forgiveness within. Find forgiveness in knowing that you're a better person because of your resolve to never commit such acts again.

Your anxiety and guilt are punishment enough.



Thank you for your advice. However, were I to transfer to a better law school at
the end of the year, wouldn't I be committing academic dishonesty yet again
by neglecting to disclose this information?

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manbearwig
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby manbearwig » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:44 am

Hamlet2010 wrote:
Pablo Ramirez wrote:DONT EVER CHEAT AGAIN.

That said, find forgiveness within. Find forgiveness in knowing that you're a better person because of your resolve to never commit such acts again.

Your anxiety and guilt are punishment enough.



Thank you for your advice. However, were I to transfer to a better law school at
the end of the year, wouldn't I be committing academic dishonesty yet again
by neglecting to disclose this information?


If you must transfer, then you must also accept you're committing academic dishonesty again. Because you can either tell and probably be kicked out or lie and try to get on with your life.

You were an idiot, enough of one that there's no easy way out now. Live with the guilt or don't be a lawyer. Those are your only options.

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northwood
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby northwood » Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:49 am

dont transfer. If you have the grades to transfer, stay, collect the scholarship money, and donate it after you graduate to a chairyt of your choice.

Stop putting youself through the guilt trip. Learn from your mistakes and dont repeat them.

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2014
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby 2014 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 7:15 pm

UG's can retroactively pull your degree if they find that it was earned when it shouldn't have been. If the class you cheated in after your F was one that was necessary for you to graduate, you could very well be looking at having your degree revoked which would cause all sorts of crap.

I understand your conscience dilemma but there is no contest here, you keep your mouth shut and never commit academic fraud in the future.

Hamlet2010
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Hamlet2010 » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:21 pm

2014 wrote:UG's can retroactively pull your degree if they find that it was earned when it shouldn't have been. If the class you cheated in after your F was one that was necessary for you to graduate, you could very well be looking at having your degree revoked which would cause all sorts of crap.

I understand your conscience dilemma but there is no contest here, you keep your mouth shut and never commit academic fraud in the future.


Let's say that happens but I were to find a way to go to a community college and graduate from there. Would EVERY SINGLE law school in the country still have me blacklisted even if several years had passed and I had added several notable accomplishments to my record in the meantime?

King of the Dudes
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby King of the Dudes » Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:50 pm

Just forget about all of your past academic sins of cheating, and do your best work you can do now that you're in law school to get the best grades you can (without cheating). If you're telling me that you can't stop thinking about your past cheating experiences (a sign of OCD), and you've also said that those episodes of cheating were due to your OCD, then I'd say you should get a handle on your OCD and stop crying over your spilled milk (cheating). If you aren't able to get good enough grades in law school to get a decent job, then that will be your punishment for having never developed the level of academic discipline necessary to do well in law school.

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Duralex
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Duralex » Fri Sep 03, 2010 11:58 pm

Echoing the above. Put it behind you and don't ever do it again. If you find you can't resist the temptation in LS then you need to consider withdrawing, if for no other reason than you absolutely cannot carry that behavior forward into practice. But turning yourself in now for your UG sins won't do anyone any good. You'll have to live with the guilt and uncertainty. May you learn from them.

whymeohgodno
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:05 am

Drop out of law school and become a Catholic priest.

Then go molest children.

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Jack Smirks
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby Jack Smirks » Sat Sep 04, 2010 12:13 am

whymeohgodno wrote:Drop out of law school and become a Catholic priest.

Then go molest children
.


Honestly you are being way too hard on yourself. Cheating was wrong and it is clear that you recognize this. Just never do it again. If you feel that for your own mental health you need to discuss this issue with someone, see a professional. But seriously do not turn yourself in, you are still a good person and nobody in your shoes would seek out retroactive punishment in the way that you are.

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northwood
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby northwood » Sat Sep 04, 2010 2:14 am

+1 milliion for the post above.

If you really need to talk this out, and i think it would do wonders for you psyche- then go see a psychologist. Tell them what yo udid, how you feel, and how it is impacting your life. Don't tell anyone in any capacity that is connected to an educational institution. Why ruin your academic ( and professional ) life over soemthing that happened in the past. Yes i understand that you got caught once, and it raised a flag, and you did it again, but sometimes its best to let the past stay in the past.

FWIW- if you really are that upset about it, perhaps a leave of absence is in order ( for mental health reasons). IF its keeping you up at night, and hindering your life then its serious enough that you need some time away from a high stress environment. Go see a professional psychologist

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2014
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Re: What Should I Expect?

Postby 2014 » Sun Sep 05, 2010 12:16 am

Hamlet2010 wrote:
2014 wrote:UG's can retroactively pull your degree if they find that it was earned when it shouldn't have been. If the class you cheated in after your F was one that was necessary for you to graduate, you could very well be looking at having your degree revoked which would cause all sorts of crap.

I understand your conscience dilemma but there is no contest here, you keep your mouth shut and never commit academic fraud in the future.


Let's say that happens but I were to find a way to go to a community college and graduate from there. Would EVERY SINGLE law school in the country still have me blacklisted even if several years had passed and I had added several notable accomplishments to my record in the meantime?

No way. People have said on here that they have gotten back into law school after being kicked out. It just took years of WE to separate them from the incidents in question.

In your case it wouldn't even be something you did in LS, rather it would be an issue of having your degree potentially taken which would render you ineligible for LS. If you however, were to get a degree and again separate yourself a bit with meaningful experience, someone would almost certainly give you a shot.


All that being said, I still don't think the idea of telling your UG is a good one.




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