Considering law school....

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Grizz
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby Grizz » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:06 pm

judgeholden wrote:It's depressing. Same bad things happening to the same people. Patterns no one can get around. Constant misery.

Criminal, as a whole, is horribly depressing. You see the worst of humanity. Not the worst sides of people, that comes out in family, but just the worst of humanity.

I was involved with one lengthy, high-profile murder trial. The end was devastating. The young defendant was found guilty, much to the surprise of every single person in the courtroom. He walked out in handcuffs, knowing he'd be over 60 before he was a free man again. His family clung to him in tears, knowing most of them would die before they saw him without a wall of glass between them. The victim's family were also in tears, as this put an end to that part of the grieving, to that part of their anger, but it doesn't bring their son/brother/boyfriend back.

It's not in me. That much constant misery and sorrow, that kind of deal where there are no winners and everyone walks away from the table miserable? Fuck it. It's not in my blood. There are too many jobs that avoid misery almost altogether to take a job that surrounds you by the deepest misery constantly.


I worked in two criminal defense firms who handled a lot of serious crimes (organized crime, armed trafficking, murders, sex crimes) and I see what you're saying, but I thought the work was exciting and rewarding. To each his own though I guess

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bk1
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:11 pm

IzziesGal wrote:That picture of the bear is HILARIOUS. We should just end the thread with that.


We shouldn't be so insensitive to bears: NY Times - Cocaine and a Dead Bear

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jayn3
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby jayn3 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:15 pm

bk1 wrote:
IzziesGal wrote:That picture of the bear is HILARIOUS. We should just end the thread with that.


We shouldn't be so insensitive to bears: NY Times - Cocaine and a Dead Bear

that bear really, really, really fucking loved cocaine.

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IzziesGal
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby IzziesGal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:27 pm

bk1 wrote:
IzziesGal wrote:That picture of the bear is HILARIOUS. We should just end the thread with that.


We shouldn't be so insensitive to bears: NY Times - Cocaine and a Dead Bear


Oh my. I didn't even know something like this was possible!

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Grizz
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby Grizz » Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:29 pm

bk1 wrote:
IzziesGal wrote:That picture of the bear is HILARIOUS. We should just end the thread with that.


We shouldn't be so insensitive to bears: NY Times - Cocaine and a Dead Bear

SO RAD

GoBroncos22!
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby GoBroncos22! » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:32 pm

That is the saddest story ever. But also hilarious. I wonder what that much cocaine would do to a bear before he died

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bk1
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby bk1 » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:35 pm

GoBroncos22! wrote:That is the saddest story ever. But also hilarious. I wonder what that much cocaine would do to a bear before he died


Probably something like THIS.

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lidialavonna
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby lidialavonna » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:40 pm

ResolutePear wrote:I'm planning to be a lawyer for the sole purposes of bankrupting people, making them cry, and perhaps help them contemplate suicide.

That's right. Death and tears feed me in the most erotic of ways.


And I thought I was unique.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:57 pm

lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:I'm planning to be a lawyer for the sole purposes of bankrupting people, making them cry, and perhaps help them contemplate suicide.

That's right. Death and tears feed me in the most erotic of ways.


And I thought I was unique.


All those things they say about lawyers being evil or affiliated with the axis of evil is true. Have you ever seen a lawyer with wings?
.
.
.
.
.
I have!
--ImageRemoved--

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manbearwig
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby manbearwig » Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:59 pm

judgeholden wrote:
GoBroncos22! wrote:
NoJob wrote:For any 0L or incoming 1L, spend two days in any major courthouse and witness the demeanor of the attorneys around u. Are they happy? Some are, but the vast majority exude their anguish. I am saying this because even if you get through law school, you have the misery of the profession. There are joys of being a lawyer: being an expert in your area of law. But, there is a reason that JDs have some of the highest rate of substance abuse of any profession. It is an awful job/life. If you want it, go for it, but for most, you will be disappointed assuming you have the grades.

Remember that once you have the JD, you have closed the door on anything other than being a lawyer with the debt.


Thank you for that most valuable and brilliant insight into the inner workings of a legal profession. I absolutely NEVER would of thought of that. I totally forgot every other profession comes with a perfect and happy life. I guess its time to withdraw my apps



You're being simple.

How many damn times do professional organizations need to release stats about how law is one of the unhappiest professions before people stop making stupid posts like this?


I'm sorry, but:

You're being simple.

How many damn times do unsatisfied lawyers need to post in law school forums about how law is one of the stupidest career choices before they realize that they're not changing anyone's mind.

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lidialavonna
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby lidialavonna » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:03 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:I'm planning to be a lawyer for the sole purposes of bankrupting people, making them cry, and perhaps help them contemplate suicide.

That's right. Death and tears feed me in the most erotic of ways.


And I thought I was unique.


All those things they say about lawyers being evil or affiliated with the axis of evil is true. Have you ever seen a lawyer with wings?
.
.
.
.
.
I have!


I know what you mean. The only reason I want to work in international justice is so I can conference call Kim Jong Il on a regular basis. Just to keep in touch.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:09 pm

manbearwig wrote:
judgeholden wrote:
GoBroncos22! wrote:
NoJob wrote:For any 0L or incoming 1L, spend two days in any major courthouse and witness the demeanor of the attorneys around u. Are they happy? Some are, but the vast majority exude their anguish. I am saying this because even if you get through law school, you have the misery of the profession. There are joys of being a lawyer: being an expert in your area of law. But, there is a reason that JDs have some of the highest rate of substance abuse of any profession. It is an awful job/life. If you want it, go for it, but for most, you will be disappointed assuming you have the grades.

Remember that once you have the JD, you have closed the door on anything other than being a lawyer with the debt.


Thank you for that most valuable and brilliant insight into the inner workings of a legal profession. I absolutely NEVER would of thought of that. I totally forgot every other profession comes with a perfect and happy life. I guess its time to withdraw my apps



You're being simple.

How many damn times do professional organizations need to release stats about how law is one of the unhappiest professions before people stop making stupid posts like this?


I'm sorry, but:

You're being simple.

How many damn times do unsatisfied lawyers need to post in law school forums about how law is one of the stupidest career choices before they realize that they're not changing anyone's mind.


EVERYBODY complains about their job!

I've been a computer programmer, professional tutor, fast food manager, retailer's online operations manager, I.T. manager, etc. If anybody were to come to me to ask me about those jobs.. I'd be like, "Run away and never look back!"

THEY ALL SUCK. AHH!

I guess it just sucks to work.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:11 pm

lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:I'm planning to be a lawyer for the sole purposes of bankrupting people, making them cry, and perhaps help them contemplate suicide.

That's right. Death and tears feed me in the most erotic of ways.


And I thought I was unique.


All those things they say about lawyers being evil or affiliated with the axis of evil is true. Have you ever seen a lawyer with wings?
.
.
.
.
.
I have!


I know what you mean. The only reason I want to work in international justice is so I can conference call Kim Jong Il on a regular basis. Just to keep in touch.


Well I heard in 1L they teach you how to talk to evil people beyond the grave for advice... like Hellraiser Bruce Lee Norris. Always good advice.

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lidialavonna
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby lidialavonna » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:19 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
Well I heard in 1L they teach you how to talk to evil people beyond the grave for advice... like Hellraiser Bruce Lee Norris. Always good advice.


How far back can we go? I mean, does the time limit get larger as you become a 2L? Because I'd really like to talk to Marie Antoinette. Not that she's strictly evil, but she did some great (albeit unintentional) work in the fields of neglect and famine. Exactly how evil does the deceased have to be?

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ResolutePear
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:21 pm

lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Well I heard in 1L they teach you how to talk to evil people beyond the grave for advice... like Hellraiser Bruce Lee Norris. Always good advice.


How far back can we go? I mean, does the time limit get larger as you become a 2L? Because I'd really like to talk to Marie Antoinette. Not that she's strictly evil, but she did some great (albeit unintentional) work in the fields of neglect and famine. Exactly how evil does the deceased have to be?


Superman-ripping-a-hooker-in-half-with-his-bare-hands evil.

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lidialavonna
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby lidialavonna » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:23 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Well I heard in 1L they teach you how to talk to evil people beyond the grave for advice... like Hellraiser Bruce Lee Norris. Always good advice.


How far back can we go? I mean, does the time limit get larger as you become a 2L? Because I'd really like to talk to Marie Antoinette. Not that she's strictly evil, but she did some great (albeit unintentional) work in the fields of neglect and famine. Exactly how evil does the deceased have to be?


Superman-ripping-a-hooker-in-half-with-his-bare-hands evil.


Well hell. Thanks for ruining my dreams. Might as well return the Logic Games Bible and change my major to Basket-Weaving, because there's zero point in becoming a lawyer if I don't get to talk to Marie Antoinette. :P

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ResolutePear
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:25 pm

lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
Well I heard in 1L they teach you how to talk to evil people beyond the grave for advice... like Hellraiser Bruce Lee Norris. Always good advice.


How far back can we go? I mean, does the time limit get larger as you become a 2L? Because I'd really like to talk to Marie Antoinette. Not that she's strictly evil, but she did some great (albeit unintentional) work in the fields of neglect and famine. Exactly how evil does the deceased have to be?


Superman-ripping-a-hooker-in-half-with-his-bare-hands evil.


Well hell. Thanks for ruining my dreams. Might as well return the Logic Games Bible and change my major to Basket-Weaving, because there's zero point in becoming a lawyer if I don't get to talk to Marie Antoinette. :P


...you could still get into law school with a basket weaving major?

Besides, I'm sure as a lawyer with all your evil and junk.. you can circumvent the whole "Superman-ripping-a-hooker-in-half-with-his-bare-hands evil" thing.

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lidialavonna
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby lidialavonna » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:29 pm

ResolutePear wrote:...you could still get into law school with a basket weaving major?

Besides, I'm sure as a lawyer with all your evil and junk.. you can circumvent the whole "Superman-ripping-a-hooker-in-half-with-his-bare-hands evil" thing.


Point taken. I was once told I could argue with a stop sign and convince it to say go. I can probably twist the language of the requirement to let me talk to Jesus if I wanted to. Or convince them that Superman's actions were merciful because the hooker had an alien coming out of her stomach, and that the act was therefore not strictly evil. My faith has been restored.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:31 pm

lidialavonna wrote:I was once told I could argue with a stop sign and convince it to say go.


You could become a millionaire within minutes of getting a JD with this skill.

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lidialavonna
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby lidialavonna » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:35 pm

ResolutePear wrote:
lidialavonna wrote:I was once told I could argue with a stop sign and convince it to say go.


You could become a millionaire within minutes of getting a JD with this skill.


Or cause thousands of auto-mobile accidents throughout the wider Phoenix area. Which would definitely contribute to the whole "death and tears feed me in erotic ways," thing.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:42 pm

lidialavonna wrote:
ResolutePear wrote:
lidialavonna wrote:I was once told I could argue with a stop sign and convince it to say go.


You could become a millionaire within minutes of getting a JD with this skill.


Or cause thousands of auto-mobile accidents throughout the wider Phoenix area. Which would definitely contribute to the whole "death and tears feed me in erotic ways," thing.


Well, as long as nobody dies.. it'll for sure result in a steady stream of PI claims for you to work on.

Profit!

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MTal
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby MTal » Fri Aug 27, 2010 8:57 pm

The responses to the OP in this thread are really pathetic.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby ResolutePear » Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:05 pm

MTal wrote:The responses to the OP in this thread are really pathetic.


The OP just stated the same fear-mongering that's been floating around this forum for ages. Maybe through prodding at it in the dark, the truth will be found.

Pip
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby Pip » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:22 pm

manbearwig wrote:
judgeholden wrote:
GoBroncos22! wrote:
NoJob wrote:For any 0L or incoming 1L, spend two days in any major courthouse and witness the demeanor of the attorneys around u. Are they happy? Some are, but the vast majority exude their anguish. I am saying this because even if you get through law school, you have the misery of the profession. There are joys of being a lawyer: being an expert in your area of law. But, there is a reason that JDs have some of the highest rate of substance abuse of any profession. It is an awful job/life. If you want it, go for it, but for most, you will be disappointed assuming you have the grades.

Remember that once you have the JD, you have closed the door on anything other than being a lawyer with the debt.


Thank you for that most valuable and brilliant insight into the inner workings of a legal profession. I absolutely NEVER would of thought of that. I totally forgot every other profession comes with a perfect and happy life. I guess its time to withdraw my apps



You're being simple.

How many damn times do professional organizations need to release stats about how law is one of the unhappiest professions before people stop making stupid posts like this?


I'm sorry, but:

You're being simple.

How many damn times do unsatisfied lawyers need to post in law school forums about how law is one of the stupidest career choices before they realize that they're not changing anyone's mind.


I suspect that he is hoping against hope that ONE person that is on the edge will think twice and not plunge in... There are lawyers that are happy as hell with what they are doing, I've known some that were.... I've also known alot more that weren't happy until they quit and did something they enjoyed.

The reality is most people will have no clue whether being a lawyer will make them happy or not, the only taste you will actually have of it will be during your first summer job after 1st year.... and that will just depend on the firm and whether it has you doing work you would normally do or wines and dines you to suck you in. Sadly for those that start feeling that it isn't for them, it will be too late. While a very small number will call it a day during that first summer, most will feel the pressure from peers, family and their own ego to finish and not be a quitter.

I would bet money that there will be a good number of people posting about how crazy someone is to try to tell people on the forum they shouldn't be lawyers, that will eventually realize that law school was a mistake. Not all... but some.

judgeholden
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Re: Considering law school....

Postby judgeholden » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:12 am

I don't care who does or does what after listening to me.


But honestly, don't be in denial. Law is among the least satisfied professions. Does this mean everyone is unsatisfied? Of course not. Does this mean you will be? Of course not.

But law has always had unrealism attached to it. People think they can enter and come out being respected. Instead they come out and find that only a limited number of jobs are available. They go in thinking they'll do entertainment law or something equally unrealistic and come out and find that they only job they can get is as a PD or doing insurance defense. Rather than waking up every day and rubbing elbows with very bright and very happy people they end up doing shitty work surrounded by morons. They look at their boss, a guy with 3 suits (none of which have ever been cleaned) and four ex-wives. This is not what they expected.
Then there is the guy that actually did make it into entertainment law, only to find out he's pushing the exact same dry, dull paperwork as the employment lawyer he knew, and that the sexy lifestyle is at least two people removed from his position in the industry. And ultimately he's feeling furious that he's working his ass off to make rich, unworthy morons richer at his own expense.

This is what happens to attorneys. They get stuck in dull, boring jobs that weren't what they wanted. They get stuck in areas of law they don't like because it was the job offer they received. They can't switch out because, essentially, once you're one kind of attorney you're always one kind of attorney.

Is this everyone? Of course not. Big Law is full of people that care about money and status more than quality of life (and I'm not judging that at all), at least early in their profession, that adore what their jobs give them. Mid law is full of people that find some balance, or start their own firm with a buddy and see it expand to 150 attorneys in 5 different cities. Small law is full of, well, it's full of people that would probably be unhappy anywhere, as well as full of people that feel their jobs have meaning.

So yeah, there are very happy attorneys. Lots of them, maybe. You'll be one, maybe. But the odds are stacked against you. It's consistently among the least happy professions. It's a profession that's designed around antagonism and anger. It rewards these qualities. To write it off saying "everyone hates their job" or "every profession has unhappy people" is retarded. It's like if my nose fell off and you said "everyone has sinus problems from time to time."




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