Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

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Kurt Cobain
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby Kurt Cobain » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:20 pm

SwollenMonkey wrote:My goatee is close to two inches long. I don't want to shave it for orientation. Will this make a bad impression on someone? I'm not sure whom, but I'm assuming someone to be on the safe side.


If you like it, keep it. What's the point of living if you can't be yourself? Plenty of lawyers have goatees. Rock on dude.

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jmhendri
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby jmhendri » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:21 pm

shaving a goatee is always, ALWAYS credited.

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Kurt Cobain
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby Kurt Cobain » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:22 pm

jdhonest wrote:
chrisokc wrote:
nematoad wrote:my humble opinion. shave that shit. people are gonna think of you in a certain light off the bat.... you're gonna be the guy with the goatee. it sucks but its the reality of our species. grow it back right after, by then people will have their first impression of you set. personally i grow and shave my beard in cycles cause i get sick of looking at the same face in the mirror for years on end. a freshly shaven face could be refreshing... or in the case of an unfortunate few, make you realize how ugly you are.

Lose all the facial hair. It's unprofessional from a old-school, conservative viewpoint. You should get used to not having facial hair. If you need to eliminate a double chin, get a tan, clear up your complexion, etc., now is the time to get started. In particular, features like a two-inch goatee, beard, fu manchu, or mutton chops will not help your career.


Bullshit.

As a 1L, I went on 3 interviews (including big law) with facial hair. I have it because I look and feel better with it. I agree that certain features aren't professional, but a neatly trimmed beard and mustache are nothing to worry about, assuming you don't look life a pedophile or weirdo (i.e. don't rock the fu manchu or soul patch).

As for the people who will judge you off the bat, I say f_ck em'. You probably don't want to be friends with judgmental little pricks like that anyway. Do you really want friends who'll paint you in a negative light because you have facial hair?!? They sound like a BLAST to spend your free time with...

(side rant, it's a good sign at how screwed up our justice system is when aspiring judges and lawyers judge people based on physical appearance)

You know what works for you, so careful before listening to these clowns.


+9999999999

chrisokc
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby chrisokc » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:35 pm

1ferret! wrote:OP - keep in mind that your audience here is largely comprised of relatively young kids, inexperienced in the workplace, with heads full of ideas of individuality gained through years of beer bongs and liberal arts. In the workplace, you are trying to impress yourself upon the sensibilities of someone else, doesn't matter how good you feel about it. With orientation however and law school in general you should judge for yourself how you want these people to perceive you. Ever gonna ask a professor for a recommendation or a job? A possibility that your peers in school are gonna be able to help you out in that respect in the future? Think about that when making your decision, and decide accordingly.

Exactly. It doesn't matter what style of clothing or facial hair you think looks coolest on you. For instance, I like the way I look in jeans, but I won't be wearing jeans on an interview because I believe it will reflect negatively on my professionalism. The same can be said for facial hair. There are a lot of styles of suits that I would wear if making an impression wasn't an issue, but for an interview, I will be wearing a suit that won't be off-putting to middle-aged white men. It's just another way of signaling. You can buck the system if you choose, but I'll be going with the safer options. If you want to grow long facial hair and wear Birkenstocks, you will be limiting your choices of employment.

And bilbobaggins, you bolded the wrong poster's comment. I was the one whose feelings you hurt.

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JordynAsh
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby JordynAsh » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:38 pm

jmhendri wrote:shaving a goatee is always, ALWAYS credited.


+1000. Could be my personal distaste for them creeping through, but I say shave that shit.

Slimpee
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby Slimpee » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:48 pm

traehekat wrote:I haven't shaved in weeks. Orientation starts in 5 days. I don't really plan on shaving.

Note: I lack any sore of "grizzly gene" that may exist, so it actually isn't ridiculous looking. Certainly not 2 inches...


I def think you should keep growing it...Grizzly Adams style!

I had to be relatively clean-looking for the past 4 years so for the fall I'm growing my hair out, dammit!. I want Jesus hair!

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JordynAsh
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby JordynAsh » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:50 pm

Slimpee wrote:
traehekat wrote:I haven't shaved in weeks. Orientation starts in 5 days. I don't really plan on shaving.

Note: I lack any sore of "grizzly gene" that may exist, so it actually isn't ridiculous looking. Certainly not 2 inches...


I def think you should keep growing it...Grizzly Adams style!

I had to be relatively clean-looking for the past 4 years so for the fall I'm growing my hair out, dammit!. I want Jesus hair!


Good luck getting laid unless you're a Native American or are in a band on the side. I kid, enjoy your newfound freedom!

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acrossthelake
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:52 pm

paratactical wrote:Who cares what profs and employers think? You should be concerned that a goatee will scare off the womenfolk.


+1

Why are you always TCR paratactical?

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jmhendri
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby jmhendri » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:52 pm

JordynAsh wrote:
jmhendri wrote:shaving a goatee is always, ALWAYS credited.


+1000. Could be my personal distaste for them creeping through, but I say shave that shit.


Not all facial hair is bad, but the goatee is like a physical manifestation of asshat David Navarro style hipster douchedom. Or the Hollywood "I'm trying too hard to look like I don't give a fuck about showering and shaving, although I take the time to keep this filthy patch of pubes trimmed only on my chin" thing.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby Blindmelon » Wed Aug 11, 2010 12:56 pm

1ferret! wrote:OP - keep in mind that your audience here is largely comprised of relatively young kids, inexperienced in the workplace, with heads full of ideas of individuality gained through years of beer bongs and liberal arts. In the workplace, you are trying to impress yourself upon the sensibilities of someone else, doesn't matter how good you feel about it. With orientation however and law school in general you should judge for yourself how you want these people to perceive you. Ever gonna ask a professor for a recommendation or a job? A possibility that your peers in school are gonna be able to help you out in that respect in the future? Think about that when making your decision, and decide accordingly.


Er.... if I'm reading your post right, either 1) you're kind of a prick or 2) you're one of those young, inexperienced kids you speak of.

The more you think you're going to "network" etc in law school, the less successful you will be at it. Be yourself, no one cares if you have a goatee or not. For an interview, I say conservative is best. Seriously though, for orientation, do whatever you want. It doesn't matter in the slightest - profs/students won't judge you based on facial hair....

Blindmelon's guide to succeeding in law school:
1) Don't be a prick and say things like you are "networking with peers" - just make friends, they will help you out.
2) Be nice to people. Reputations for being a braggard, a social climber, etc. go around a lot and will not be a good thing down the road.
3) Help others. Simply as that. Law school is competitive, but don't be known as the guy who doesn't help others out. Help others, and people will help you in return.
4) Don't try to be something different because you're in law school. Spotting a phony is easy (see #1) and people are more likable when they're normal and down to earth. Even to profs.

/rant.

rockstar4488
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby rockstar4488 » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:42 pm

The more you think you're going to "network" etc in law school, the less successful you will be at it. Be yourself, no one cares if you have a goatee or not. For an interview, I say conservative is best. Seriously though, for orientation, do whatever you want. It doesn't matter in the slightest - profs/students won't judge you based on facial hair....


While the above facial hair judgment free zone may seem nice, I can tell you ladies right now that no one likes your upper lip peach fuzz.

chrisokc
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby chrisokc » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:46 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:
The more you think you're going to "network" etc in law school, the less successful you will be at it. Be yourself, no one cares if you have a goatee or not. For an interview, I say conservative is best. Seriously though, for orientation, do whatever you want. It doesn't matter in the slightest - profs/students won't judge you based on facial hair....


While the above facial hair judgment free zone may seem nice, I can tell you ladies right now that no one likes your upper lip peach fuzz.

Now that we've settled the facial hair issue, how about below-the-belt? How much trimming is necessary for orientation?

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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby jdhonest » Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:48 pm

1ferret! wrote:OP - keep in mind that your audience here is largely comprised of relatively young kids, inexperienced in the workplace, with heads full of ideas of individuality gained through years of beer bongs and liberal arts. In the workplace, you are trying to impress yourself upon the sensibilities of someone else, doesn't matter how good you feel about it. With orientation however and law school in general you should judge for yourself how you want these people to perceive you. Ever gonna ask a professor for a recommendation or a job? A possibility that your peers in school are gonna be able to help you out in that respect in the future? Think about that when making your decision, and decide accordingly.


"Hey OP, it's been a while! Well, I'd love to help you find some work, and you sure seem like a smart and talented guy, but there's just one thing. Do you remember orientation, when you had that whole goatee thing going..."

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Kurt Cobain
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby Kurt Cobain » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:07 pm

chrisokc wrote:
rockstar4488 wrote:
The more you think you're going to "network" etc in law school, the less successful you will be at it. Be yourself, no one cares if you have a goatee or not. For an interview, I say conservative is best. Seriously though, for orientation, do whatever you want. It doesn't matter in the slightest - profs/students won't judge you based on facial hair....


While the above facial hair judgment free zone may seem nice, I can tell you ladies right now that no one likes your upper lip peach fuzz.

Now that we've settled the facial hair issue, how about below-the-belt? How much trimming is necessary for orientation?


Depends on what school he's going to.

School with laid-back liberal chicks-don't worry.

Uptight cosmo bitches-get out the clippers.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby acrossthelake » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:13 pm

Kurt Cobain wrote:
chrisokc wrote:
rockstar4488 wrote:
The more you think you're going to "network" etc in law school, the less successful you will be at it. Be yourself, no one cares if you have a goatee or not. For an interview, I say conservative is best. Seriously though, for orientation, do whatever you want. It doesn't matter in the slightest - profs/students won't judge you based on facial hair....


While the above facial hair judgment free zone may seem nice, I can tell you ladies right now that no one likes your upper lip peach fuzz.

Now that we've settled the facial hair issue, how about below-the-belt? How much trimming is necessary for orientation?


Depends on what school he's going to.

School with laid-back liberal chicks-don't worry.

Uptight cosmo bitches-get out the clippers.


I think it's a matter of how trimmed she is. So..if you're demanding a girl be well-trimmed, you should be too. If you're laid back about her, she should be laid back about you.

But really, I don't think it'll make a big difference at orientation for any social interaction outside the attempt to attract females.

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1ferret!
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby 1ferret! » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:15 pm

Blindmelon wrote:
1ferret! wrote:OP - keep in mind that your audience here is largely comprised of relatively young kids, inexperienced in the workplace, with heads full of ideas of individuality gained through years of beer bongs and liberal arts. In the workplace, you are trying to impress yourself upon the sensibilities of someone else, doesn't matter how good you feel about it. With orientation however and law school in general you should judge for yourself how you want these people to perceive you. Ever gonna ask a professor for a recommendation or a job? A possibility that your peers in school are gonna be able to help you out in that respect in the future? Think about that when making your decision, and decide accordingly.


Er.... if I'm reading your post right, either 1) you're kind of a prick or 2) you're one of those young, inexperienced kids you speak of.

The more you think you're going to "network" etc in law school, the less successful you will be at it. Be yourself, no one cares if you have a goatee or not. For an interview, I say conservative is best. Seriously though, for orientation, do whatever you want. It doesn't matter in the slightest - profs/students won't judge you based on facial hair....

Blindmelon's guide to succeeding in law school:
1) Don't be a prick and say things like you are "networking with peers" - just make friends, they will help you out.
2) Be nice to people. Reputations for being a braggard, a social climber, etc. go around a lot and will not be a good thing down the road.
3) Help others. Simply as that. Law school is competitive, but don't be known as the guy who doesn't help others out. Help others, and people will help you in return.
4) Don't try to be something different because you're in law school. Spotting a phony is easy (see #1) and people are more likable when they're normal and down to earth. Even to profs.

/rant.


Well,
#1 I am kind of a prick, but a prick who recognizes something which apparently you give short shrift to: It often matters what other people think of you when you want something from them.
#2 Your 2 & 3 dont follow and have nothing to do with facial hair or the rest of this conversation.
#3 I always rock a goatee, but was encouraging the OP to think about things in a frame of mind he might not have otherwise.
#4 You are a fat little girl in a bee costume.

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FlanAl
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby FlanAl » Wed Aug 11, 2010 2:23 pm

I think it depends on what school and in which area of the country. For instance here in socal a goatee (just the bottom, if you have the tache too then its a whole different story) is generally reserved for people with lifted trucks who try to look super hard at the bars. I'm sure this is completely different in other parts of the country but you should really consider the school and the area.

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Kurt Cobain
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby Kurt Cobain » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:12 pm

acrossthelake wrote:
I think it's a matter of how trimmed she is. So..if you're demanding a girl be well-trimmed, you should be too. If you're laid back about her, she should be laid back about you.


right this is what I was getting at.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:28 pm

paratactical wrote:Who cares what profs and employers think? You should be concerned that a goatee will scare off the womenfolk.


I don't want to hook up with female law students. And I will definitely not care about what women think about me unless they're hiring or responsible for my pay check.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:30 pm

FlanAl wrote:I think it depends on what school and in which area of the country. For instance here in socal a goatee (just the bottom, if you have the tache too then its a whole different story) is generally reserved for people with lifted trucks who try to look super hard at the bars. I'm sure this is completely different in other parts of the country but you should really consider the school and the area.


I drive a Jeep Wrangler with 30 inch tires and a bitchin Magna Flow Exhaust.

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jmhendri
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby jmhendri » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:31 pm

SwollenMonkey wrote:
paratactical wrote:Who cares what profs and employers think? You should be concerned that a goatee will scare off the womenfolk.


I don't want to hook up with female law students. And I will definitely not care about what women think about me unless they're hiring or responsible for my pay check.




womenfolk =/= only female law students...hth

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:31 pm

jdhonest wrote:
1ferret! wrote:OP - keep in mind that your audience here is largely comprised of relatively young kids, inexperienced in the workplace, with heads full of ideas of individuality gained through years of beer bongs and liberal arts. In the workplace, you are trying to impress yourself upon the sensibilities of someone else, doesn't matter how good you feel about it. With orientation however and law school in general you should judge for yourself how you want these people to perceive you. Ever gonna ask a professor for a recommendation or a job? A possibility that your peers in school are gonna be able to help you out in that respect in the future? Think about that when making your decision, and decide accordingly.


"Hey OP, it's been a while! Well, I'd love to help you find some work, and you sure seem like a smart and talented guy, but there's just one thing. Do you remember orientation, when you had that whole goatee thing going..."


I see your point. :|

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:32 pm

jmhendri wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:
paratactical wrote:Who cares what profs and employers think? You should be concerned that a goatee will scare off the womenfolk.


I don't want to hook up with female law students. And I will definitely not care about what women think about me unless they're hiring or responsible for my pay check.




womenfolk =/= only female law students...hth


I assumed that's what she meant.

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romothesavior
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby romothesavior » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:33 pm

jmhendri wrote:womenfolk =/= only female law students...hth


+1. Also, facial hair looks bad on 95%+ of guys, especially if you're going for the professional/business look. Being a straight male, I guess I'm not the best judge, but I feel like most girls would agree with me. I've done the goatee thing a few times (and the full beard), but I think TCR is usually clean shaven.

But if you like the goatee and you look good with it, knock yourself out.

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1ferret!
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Re: Orientation in a few days. Should I shave my goatee?

Postby 1ferret! » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:34 pm

Hey Monkey-Man: did you end up getting pulled into Southwestern?




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