Accelerated Law Programs?

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artfuldodger23
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Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby artfuldodger23 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:53 pm

Hey Guys,

I have a cousin who is interested in doing Law. She doesn't want to go through a tough time stressing over getting the perfect LSAT's and she wants to apply to a program that guarantees you a spot at that university's law school if you maintain a minimum GPA and you take the LSAT during your junior year (regardless of what you make). I know these are referred to as 3+3 programs but are there programs where you can apply as a high school senior and you can get a BA or BS as well as a JD within 6 or 7 years? I know Rutgers Camden has one but she says its such a dangerous area! I really need some advice to tell her! She is a incoming senior who resides in Texas

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merichard87
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby merichard87 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:01 pm

There are programs like this? Wow. News to me.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:02 pm

Well, 7 years would be a 4 year BA/BS and 3 years for the JD...

If they want a 3+3 program, just finish undergrad in 3 years (take a lot of courses, and do summer school) and apply to go strait to law school.

Personally, working a year or two after undergrad has given me some really valuable experiences...

artfuldodger23
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby artfuldodger23 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:04 pm

Personally I don't think its a good idea, she is a brilliant girl and I think she could make it to a T14 Law school but she would think it'd be too hard. What are your guys' opinion on this?

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ck3
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby ck3 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:08 pm

I don't know your niece, nor do I know the details of her situation, but I would think that maybe she should consider the pitfalls of such a choice. She might be self selecting out of the options that would be best for her in the long run. Such choices are not uncommon among young people. Since she has not even taken the LSAT yet, she may find that after 3 years of college, she can take the LSAT with not a lot of studying and score of maybe something like 157. This is a score that would put her around the median for a school like SMU which is a very respectable school in the state of TX and much higher ranked the Rutgers Camden. So I would explore schools that offer the 3+3 option but I also encourage her to incorporate into her decision the importance of going to the right school with an emphasis on the ability of that school's degree to help her reach her career goals.

Azmatt
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby Azmatt » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:08 pm

So, she's a chick who lacks confidence who also doesn't want the "stress" of an LSAT, but wants to go to law school?

This will end well.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:11 pm

ck3 wrote:I don't know your niece, nor do I know the details of her situation, but I would think that maybe she should consider the pitfalls of such a choice. She might be self selecting out of the options that would be best for her in the long run. Such choices are not uncommon among young people. Since she has not even taken the LSAT yet, she may find that after 3 years of college, she can take the LSAT with not a lot of studying and score of maybe something like 157. This is a score that would put her around the median for a school like SMU which is a very respectable school in the state of TX and much higher ranked the Rutgers Camden. So I would explore schools that offer the 3+3 option but I also encourage her to incorporate into her decision the importance of going to the right school with an emphasis on the ability of that school's degree to help her reach her career goals.


SMU median LSAT = 164
SMU median PT LSAT = 159

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:12 pm

Why not do 4 years of undergrad, and then a 2 year AJD program in whatever it is program that's doing it (Chicago? NW? I can't remember).

CanadianWolf
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:14 pm

Valparaiso University in Indiana is the school that you are seeking. Not a great option, but it satisfies almost all of your criteria.
Law school is much different than medical school if that is where this idea was derived from. Medical school programs like this, e.g. Northwestern & Brown, are reserved for the best & brightest undergraduate applicants. It is easier to get admitted to Harvard, Yale , Princeton, MIT or Stanford than to get into these medical programs.

artfuldodger23
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby artfuldodger23 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:18 pm

Azmatt wrote:So, she's a chick who lacks confidence who also doesn't want the "stress" of an LSAT, but wants to go to law school?

This will end well.


She doesn't lack the confidence, its more about the stress. By the way she is pretty interested in SMU and a program at SMU called the Pre-Law Scholars program, it sounds like a good gig to me, I would appreciate your thoughts on it.

http://www.law.smu.edu/Media/Admission/ ... s_4-12.pdf
Last edited by artfuldodger23 on Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ck3
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby ck3 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:19 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
ck3 wrote:I don't know your niece, nor do I know the details of her situation, but I would think that maybe she should consider the pitfalls of such a choice. She might be self selecting out of the options that would be best for her in the long run. Such choices are not uncommon among young people. Since she has not even taken the LSAT yet, she may find that after 3 years of college, she can take the LSAT with not a lot of studying and score of maybe something like 157. This is a score that would put her around the median for a school like SMU which is a very respectable school in the state of TX and much higher ranked the Rutgers Camden. So I would explore schools that offer the 3+3 option but I also encourage her to incorporate into her decision the importance of going to the right school with an emphasis on the ability of that school's degree to help her reach her career goals.


SMU median LSAT = 164
SMU median PT LSAT = 159


OK, my mistake, but I was going by the data in the TLS rankings table that says that SMU's 25th percentile is 155 and there 75th is 165. But anyway I think that the point I was making still holds which is that it probably is not the best idea to go to a much lower rated school just because you can finish in 6 years as opposed to 7 when you are talking about decisions that will effect your entire working career which may last until you are 65 or 70 years old.

sumus romani
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:20 pm

Kansas has a two-year JD program. So does NW--to answer the poster above. Not Chicago. But NW's 2-year program admissions are super competitive.

But to be honest, this just doesn't sound like it will end well.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:22 pm

Although I researched this issue within the last two years, the only schools that I can recall which don't require the LSAT for a certain group of their undergraduates are Valpo & Michigan. Although I suspect that there may be a few more.
If she is willing to take the LSAT & does extremely well, then she might want to consider Duke & Northwestern which encourage a cooperative environment.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:24 pm

sumus romani wrote:Kansas has a two-year JD program. So does NW--to answer the poster above. Not Chicago. But NW's 2-year program admissions are super competitive.

But to be honest, this just doesn't sound like it will end well.


Gotcha, NW.

I doubt it's the answer, my point is to show one can get a BA/BS and JD in 6 years without doing a program with likely poor prospects. Hell, one could do a BA/BS in 3 years if they really tried and then the AJD at NW for a total of 5 years.

...I think the point here is that the cousin probably wants the easy route...

sumus romani
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:25 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Although I researched this issue within the last two years, the only schools that I can recall which don't require the LSAT for a certain group of their undergraduates are Valpo & Michigan. Although I suspect that there may be a few more.


Pretty sure that Bama is in the group too. But just to be clear, what we are talking about here are those who are undergrads at the school that also has the law school.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:27 pm

Alabama may be in this group , but wasn't 3 or 4 years ago when I proposed this type of program to them for their University Fellows program. I believe that I suggested this to the folks at Alabama in the Spring of 2007 prior to the Fall 2007 entry of their first group of University Fellows.
As best as I can recall both Valpo & Michigan required that the freshman undergraduates enter as members of their respective Honors College or Honors Program & graduate with a certain minimum GPA.
With respect to Alabama, my proposal was just that any University Fellow be granted automatic admission to Alabama's law school so long as the student complied with the minimum requirements to remain both as a University Fellow & in the Honors College.

artfuldodger23
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby artfuldodger23 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:34 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:
sumus romani wrote:Kansas has a two-year JD program. So does NW--to answer the poster above. Not Chicago. But NW's 2-year program admissions are super competitive.

But to be honest, this just doesn't sound like it will end well.


Gotcha, NW.

I doubt it's the answer, my point is to show one can get a BA/BS and JD in 6 years without doing a program with likely poor prospects. Hell, one could do a BA/BS in 3 years if they really tried and then the AJD at NW for a total of 5 years.

...I think the point here is that the cousin probably wants the easy route...



I appreciate your help great satchmo... yes she does want the easy way out unfortunately

sumus romani
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby sumus romani » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:36 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Alabama may be in this group , but wasn't 3 or 4 years ago when I proposed this type of program to them for their University Fellows program. I believe that I suggested this to the folks at Alabama in the Spring of 2007 prior to the Fall 2007 entry of their first group of University Fellows.
As best as I can recall both Valpo & Michigan required that the freshman undergraduates enter as members of their respective Honors College or Honors Program & graduate with a certain minimum GPA.



I was curious, so I checked it out. If I understand the program correctly, Bama honors undergrads can apply w/o LSAT. Check out the link from:

http://www.law.ua.edu/prospective/?re=app

And click on the honors link. I think that I'm characterizing this correctly.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:36 pm

Forget NU if the "NW" is an attempt to refer to Northwestern University School of Law's 2.5 year accelerated JD program. This is not much of a shortened program in that it requires substantial business or work experience just to qualify to apply, requires a very high LSAT score and requires full year law school attendance resulting in, at most, a savings of one semesteer, not one academic year. Look for Harvard to follow.

artfuldodger23
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby artfuldodger23 » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:44 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:Well, 7 years would be a 4 year BA/BS and 3 years for the JD...

If they want a 3+3 program, just finish undergrad in 3 years (take a lot of courses, and do summer school) and apply to go strait to law school.

Personally, working a year or two after undergrad has given me some really valuable experiences...



Wait, so you are saying at any undergrad school you can finish in 3 years and go to law school regardless of them having a program?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:44 pm

sumus romani: This is not what I proposed. Your reference is to a "backlash offer" available only to Alabama state residents who are also graduates of the Honors College at Alabama with a 3.75 GPA. This is similiar to the Univ. of Michigan program (which is not limited to state residents) & is far easier than the program that I proposed to "Bama. My proposal was in 2007, so I am almost certain that this existing program originated at a later date.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:50 pm

Of the Michigan, Alabama & Valpo programs, only the Valparaiso University program can be considered an accelerated program as the other two waive only the LSAT. Northwestern University School of Law's accelerated JD program requires, I believe, five years of work experience to save one semester of law school. I do, however, think that there may be one or two other accelerated programs out there, although I may be confusing this with some state bars, e.g., California & Vermont, that do not require a law degree to sit for the state bar. There are also at least two of the 15 Canadian law schools--maybe more--that do not require more than completion of two or three years of college.
P.S. Valpo is dominated by sororities & fraternities at the undergraduate level.
P.P.S. I do suspect that Harvard's law school is keeping a close eye on Northwestern's accelerated JD program as Harvard recently moved to de-emphasize Constitutional Law (by making it a second year elective instead of a first year requirement) in an effort to, in my estimation, emulate MBA programs practicality.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:25 pm

Another option is to attend law school at the Univ. of Wisconsin which does not require a bar exam for its graduates to join the Wisconsin State Bar. This can be a big stress reliever if you want to practice in Wisconsin (I doubt reciprocity is an option but I have never researched this issue). Ole Miss used to, or may still have, a similiar benefit.

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manbearwig
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby manbearwig » Thu Jul 29, 2010 10:47 pm

Dickinson College has a 3+3 agreement with Penn State Dickinson School of Law. It has an undergrad GPA requirement of 3.5 and an LSAT of about 157. However, while Dickinson College is a good undergrad, only go to Penn State law school if you want to practice in central PA.

HyeMart
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Re: Accelerated Law Programs?

Postby HyeMart » Thu Jul 29, 2010 11:00 pm

georgetown, fordham come to my mind.

her best bet is to just check out the schools with law schools, and see if they have something like that. I don't think its rare.




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