Bipolar Disorder And Law Forum

[pippin732]

I'd like to find out as much information as I can on going through the motions of becoming a lawyer with bipolar disorder-- admissions, passing the bar, etc...

[TCScrutinizer]

I'd like to find out as much information as I can on going through the motions of becoming a lawyer with bipolar disorder-- admissions, passing the bar, etc...

Well, first you get into college, and you're really happy.

Then you do work at college, and you're really sad.

Then you graduate college, and you're really happy.

Then you get a job in the real world, and you're really sad.

Then you get into law school, and you're really happy.

Then you go to law school, and you're really sad.

Then you graduate law school, and you're really happy.

Then you take the bar, and you're really sad.

[3ThrowAway99]

Interesting question- I suspect if you have a recently documented diagnosis of Bipolar Disorder (within last 5-10 years) the character and fitness committee would want to make sure you are receiving adequate medical treatment for the condition. I imagine that it is rare where a MH condition in itself would prevent a person from becoming a lawyer unless the person is refusing treatment for a well-documented ongoing diagnosis and there is reason to believe the condition is sufficient to cause significant professional problems. However, you may want to contact a the Bar office of the state you hope to practice in (though it is probably recommended to ask 'hypothetically' about the concerns to have the best chance of response, because Bar officials aren't allowed to give specific comment on character and fitness situations not currently being reviewed as part of a Bar application as far as I am aware). Maybe there are people on here who have direct experience with this though who can be of greater help.

[TheTopBloke]

This is a very interesting topic. I stumbled upon this TED video by Cameron Herold:
http://www.ted.com/talks/cameron_herold ... neurs.html

It led to some interesting links and made me wonder about the potential (success or disaster) of a lawyer with bipolar disorder. Turns out there are sources citing Roosevelt and Churchill as bipolar as well as Ted Turner and many other well known business figures and statesmen. I know there's evidence of Churchill and other wartime leaders doing speed, so I'm wondering how they could accurately diagnose something like bipolar during WWII when the subject is getting high and crashing hard while trying to save the world.

Just from the brief amount of data I've read it seems like someone with bipolar disorder would not be a good lawyer. Maybe entrepreneurs have this correlation and can function and succeed, so how does it hurt or help a practicing lawyer?

[rockstar4488]

People that are bipolar are not necessarily always skipping between highs and lows. My guess is that the people cited were most likely only manic.

Also my experience with people that are bipolar is that if it is being properly treated and medicated, than there's no reason why they couldn't be an attorney or anything else.

[Cleareyes]

It seems like you can't be a lawyer without suffering from some psychiatric malady/personality disorder. Might as well be bipolar.

[romothesavior]

I'd like to find out as much information as I can on going through the motions of becoming a lawyer with bipolar disorder-- admissions, passing the bar, etc...

Well, first you get into college, and you're really happy.

Then you do work at college, and you're really sad.

Then you graduate college, and you're really happy.

Then you get a job in the real world, and you're really sad.

Then you get into law school, and you're really happy.

Then you go to law school, and you're really sad.

Then you graduate law school, and you're really happy.

Then you take the bar, and you're really sad.

In other words, you're just like the rest of us. Welcome.

[ScaredWorkedBored]

For a serious response:

This won't come up at the law school admission stage unless you are writing an addendum to explain rough performance that resulted from your diagnosis. Such an addendum doesn't seem like a great idea unless it's really obvious just from your transcript anyway. The reason is that bar examiners uniformly get your law school application and if you say you have problems functioning at the admission stage but say "I'm just fine" to the bar examiners, that only makes them look harder.

How much a state bar will care varies tremendously by state. There is no standardized practice for how much/how severe mental health history they want. Asking for medical records is a big sore point with bars, but they will ask questions and will ask for supporting records. You will sign a release allowing them to get such records as part of your application.

As a general rule, bipolar disorder *is* one of the ones they will care about because it can directly and negatively impact your ability to represent your client. You may need to demonstrate that it's under control and you can function as required of an attorney at any given time.

What you should do first is figure out what state(s) you want to be admitted in and contact a lawyer that does Character & Fitness work in that state. They'll know how that specific bar (or really, the specific bar examiners that are currently there) treat different psychiatric diagnoses.

[jayn3]

For a serious response:

This won't come up at the law school admission stage unless you are writing an addendum to explain rough performance that resulted from your diagnosis. Such an addendum doesn't seem like a great idea unless it's really obvious just from your transcript anyway. The reason is that bar examiners uniformly get your law school application and if you say you have problems functioning at the admission stage but say "I'm just fine" to the bar examiners, that only makes them look harder.

How much a state bar will care varies tremendously by state. There is no standardized practice for how much/how severe mental health history they want. Asking for medical records is a big sore point with bars, but they will ask questions and will ask for supporting records. You will sign a release allowing them to get such records as part of your application.

As a general rule, bipolar disorder *is* one of the ones they will care about because it can directly and negatively impact your ability to represent your client. You may need to demonstrate that it's under control and you can function as required of an attorney at any given time.

What you should do first is figure out what state(s) you want to be admitted in and contact a lawyer that does Character & Fitness work in that state. They'll know how that specific bar (or really, the specific bar examiners that are currently there) treat different psychiatric diagnoses.

this.

i wouldn't apply until you're absolutely positive you have it under control. 1L will be stressful enough to exacerbate anything you don't have sorted out -- getting in to LS is one thing, but getting through it is another.

[TCScrutinizer]

In all truth, I've had some small experience with bipolar disorder, if not in myself. I would recommend not moving far away, and if you do, take someone to "look after" you. People who suffer from bipolar disorder seem to slip on their meds more than any other individuals I've seen, perhaps because in the upswings you "feel fine" and in the downswings you can't be bothered to do anything.

[fixer]

In Texas, there are several very specific questions on the Declaration of Intent to Study Law (an application which must be filled out before October 1L, not sure how other state handle this) regarding bipolar disorder as well as schitzophrenia (sp?). If I were you, I would contact the state bar and ask them very specific questions about your situation. It would suck to go through LS only to find out that you cannot be licensed because you will not pass the character and fitness evaluation due to illness.

[pjm]

It's kinda annoying when people post frivolous answers to a question when they have absolutely no knowledge about the topic (which is serious). Congratulations, you'll make great lawyers.

My qualifications: Not stellar, but I have bipolar disorder and I graduated from law school last December.

About applying to law schools & the moral fitness exam in CA (don't know about other states): you're given an out. The application asks whether or not you currently have a condition that to your knowledge does not and will not affect your ability to perform your job with due diligence blah blah blah... Our ethics professor strongly emphasized this point. Read the wording carefully. The language might or might not have changed.You might not have to disclose at all if you're being treated and you're symptom-free. If you're in law school, you're probably doing pretty well. For my part, I have to somehow explain where those years just after law school went. Try not to go there.

If you have to disclose, then use it to your advantage in an essay: I have a terrible illness but I overcame that giant hurdle and now I'm just peachy. Point out current examples of your ability to function. You might want to throw in something about how very diligent you are to maintain your treatment. However, don't disclose unless you have to.

As to managing your life - you cannot avoid stress as a 1L and you must manage it. Stress is your enemy.

- Try to find a school that won't chuck you out if you drop below a B average. (Many toilet schools do this.)

- Find the best treatment available. I asked a psychologist who is affiliated with the local medical school for references, with good results.

- Be diligent about your treatment.

- Develop a support network. Someone else mentioned this, and for good reason. It is essential. If you're far from home it will be difficult to find someone you trust. Try to network & find out if there are any friends of friends or slightly distant relatives who would be receptive to your situation. Use the phone, email, or anything else to maintain communication with people at home. I wouldn't use a social networking site to discuss your problem since potential employers will find that information.

- It's hard to know when you're getting a bit too manic or depressed. Consider making a contract with a person(s) that you trust stating that you will go to the doctor if the person(s) think that you need to. If you have to go and there's no problem, you haven't lost anything. If you have to go and something's up, it can be corrected before Something Bad happens. If you have bipolar disorder, you know what Something Bad means.

- Develop an exercise routine, even if it's minimal, and stick to it.

- Watch your diet. Try to make it routine, reasonably healthy, quick and easy to prepare. A schedule is helpful. You might have to resort to machine or trash food from time to time; don't worry about it. Such occasions are unavoidable.

- Get rid of all computer games and bookmarks for online games. I'm serious. The study time lost will increase your stress, and you, unlike your classmates, can't afford the harm done. If you use games to relax, use a schedule and software that will control how much time you spend.

- Be flexible. If your schedule falls apart for a day, fine. Fall back into your routine when you can. And don't make your routine too detailed - give yourself wiggle room.

- Be gentle with yourself. Don't beat yourself up if you have a bad day & miss class or something. (However two bad days merit a visit with your psychiatrist.)

- Take fewer classes during your second and third year if you can.

- Organize, and take the time to stay organized. That means online and off.

- Sell your books and recycle your papers at the end of each semester. Believe me, you won't have the time or inclination to go back and browse through them later. BarBri will give you all of the outlines and information you'll need for the bar exam. You can get back a little money and keep the clutter out of your living space. Clutter = added stress.

- Schedule time to do something you enjoy. You could spend time with your family, participate informally in a sport, work on a hobby, or just hang out somewhere that is not in the vicinity of your school. You must get away from school once in a while.

- I discussed my child's illness with the Dean and she was absolutely A plus about helping me to get through school, including allowing me to drop the 2nd semester of con law in my first year and delaying an exam in my second year. After my decompensation, she got approval for some exceptions that bent the rules to the breaking point, all so that I could finish my degree far beyond the usual time limits. I am very grateful.

- If you can't find a sympathetic ear at your school, go to whoever is responsible for students with disabilities. (You do have a disability even though you're not in a wheelchair or anything. Mental illness is called an invisible disability.) Those people are usually well informed about what you can and cannot do, and can advise you of work-arounds that you might not be aware of.

Good Luck

[romothesavior]

It's kinda annoying when people bump a three month old thread post frivolous answers to a question when they have absolutely no knowledge about the topic (which is serious).

[pippin732]

any advice helps

[northwood]

manage your mental health very closely. set up consistent counseling sessions during the semester, and do not miss them. When you start to have the black cloud feeling, take whatever steps necessary to give yourself as much time to resolve it.

you have to be totallly honest withyourself before you start 1 semester. Create and adhere to strict guidelines, and stay in touch with close friends and family frequently. if the stress gets to you, be prepared to walk away ( possibly for good)- knowing that the money you spent will not be recovered.

[MauveDinosaur]

Will I have problems passing the bar if I have school disciplinary issues linked to bipolar disorder?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Don't bump 5-year-old threads to ask the same questions.