Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

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cyxdev17
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Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby cyxdev17 » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:23 pm

I've read somewhere that HYS have a high pass, pass, low pass, and fail grading system. What other schools have this system? Does it actually bring down stress levels, and does it make sense to view this as a positive factor when evaluating schools?

miamiman
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby miamiman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:29 pm

cyxdev17 wrote:I've read somewhere that HYS have a high pass, pass, low pass, and fail grading system. What other schools have this system? Does it actually bring down stress levels, and does it make sense to view this as a positive factor when evaluating schools?

It's a mixed bag, to be honest. At YHS, it seems -- from a purely instrumental perspective -- to favor the student body as a whole. The top of the class is slightly hurt while the bottom third is bailed out.

At Berkeley, the HH/H/P system has completely fucked over their students ITE. Top students are unaffected whereas median and below-median students are virtually indistuingshable from each other; this makes both groups less employable since employers dont want to dip as deep into that class as say HYS. The grading scheme in conjunction with a horrifically bad SF legal market has made Berkeley an absolute disaster for students seeking biglaw.

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TheTopBloke
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby TheTopBloke » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:59 pm

define ITE

miamiman
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby miamiman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 10:59 pm

TheTopBloke wrote:define ITE

in this economy

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Kurama
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby Kurama » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:11 pm

miamiman wrote:
cyxdev17 wrote:I've read somewhere that HYS have a high pass, pass, low pass, and fail grading system. What other schools have this system? Does it actually bring down stress levels, and does it make sense to view this as a positive factor when evaluating schools?

It's a mixed bag, to be honest. At YHS, it seems -- from a purely instrumental perspective -- to favor the student body as a whole. The top of the class is slightly hurt while the bottom third is bailed out.

At Berkeley, the HH/H/P system has completely fucked over their students ITE. Top students are unaffected whereas median and below-median students are virtually indistuingshable from each other; this makes both groups less employable since employers dont want to dip as deep into that class as say HYS. The grading scheme in conjunction with a horrifically bad SF legal market has made Berkeley an absolute disaster for students seeking biglaw.


Min do you go to Boalt? I had long conjectured that Boalt using the no grade system was a bad idea---firms swallow it for HYS because they are HYS. Boalt's decision to go to the P/F system always struck me as a bit arrogant.

miamiman
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby miamiman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:14 pm

Kurama wrote:
miamiman wrote:
cyxdev17 wrote:I've read somewhere that HYS have a high pass, pass, low pass, and fail grading system. What other schools have this system? Does it actually bring down stress levels, and does it make sense to view this as a positive factor when evaluating schools?

It's a mixed bag, to be honest. At YHS, it seems -- from a purely instrumental perspective -- to favor the student body as a whole. The top of the class is slightly hurt while the bottom third is bailed out.

At Berkeley, the HH/H/P system has completely fucked over their students ITE. Top students are unaffected whereas median and below-median students are virtually indistuingshable from each other; this makes both groups less employable since employers dont want to dip as deep into that class as say HYS. The grading scheme in conjunction with a horrifically bad SF legal market has made Berkeley an absolute disaster for students seeking biglaw.


Min do you go to Boalt? I had long conjectured that Boalt using the no grade system was a bad idea---firms swallow it for HYS because they are HYS. Boalt's decision to go to the P/F system always struck me as a bit arrogant.

I don't go to Boalt. I have friends that do and I read TLS/XO.

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megaTTTron
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:21 pm

Kurama wrote:
miamiman wrote:
cyxdev17 wrote:I've read somewhere that HYS have a high pass, pass, low pass, and fail grading system. What other schools have this system? Does it actually bring down stress levels, and does it make sense to view this as a positive factor when evaluating schools?

It's a mixed bag, to be honest. At YHS, it seems -- from a purely instrumental perspective -- to favor the student body as a whole. The top of the class is slightly hurt while the bottom third is bailed out.

At Berkeley, the HH/H/P system has completely fucked over their students ITE. Top students are unaffected whereas median and below-median students are virtually indistuingshable from each other; this makes both groups less employable since employers dont want to dip as deep into that class as say HYS. The grading scheme in conjunction with a horrifically bad SF legal market has made Berkeley an absolute disaster for students seeking biglaw.


Min do you go to Boalt? I had long conjectured that Boalt using the no grade system was a bad idea---firms swallow it for HYS because they are HYS. Boalt's decision to go to the P/F system always struck me as a bit arrogant.


Fuck it. Let's start a movement for the top 10 to go gradeless. I think it's brilliant.

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im_blue
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby im_blue » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:28 pm

megaTTTron wrote:
Kurama wrote:
miamiman wrote:
cyxdev17 wrote:I've read somewhere that HYS have a high pass, pass, low pass, and fail grading system. What other schools have this system? Does it actually bring down stress levels, and does it make sense to view this as a positive factor when evaluating schools?

It's a mixed bag, to be honest. At YHS, it seems -- from a purely instrumental perspective -- to favor the student body as a whole. The top of the class is slightly hurt while the bottom third is bailed out.

At Berkeley, the HH/H/P system has completely fucked over their students ITE. Top students are unaffected whereas median and below-median students are virtually indistuingshable from each other; this makes both groups less employable since employers dont want to dip as deep into that class as say HYS. The grading scheme in conjunction with a horrifically bad SF legal market has made Berkeley an absolute disaster for students seeking biglaw.


Min do you go to Boalt? I had long conjectured that Boalt using the no grade system was a bad idea---firms swallow it for HYS because they are HYS. Boalt's decision to go to the P/F system always struck me as a bit arrogant.


Fuck it. Let's start a movement for the top 10 to go gradeless. I think it's brilliant.

Ridiculous idea ITE, when T10 is placing at most half of their class into biglaw. Perhaps some intermediate grading system would be better, such as above-median or below-median for each course.

Tautology
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby Tautology » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:29 pm

Boalt's system is basically A, B, C, F, no?

miamiman
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby miamiman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:31 pm

Tautology wrote:Boalt's system is basically A, B, C, F, no?

HH/H/P

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megaTTTron
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby megaTTTron » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:31 pm

im_blue wrote:
megaTTTron wrote:
Fuck it. Let's start a movement for the top 10 to go gradeless. I think it's brilliant.

Ridiculous idea ITE, when T10 is placing at most half of their class into biglaw. Perhaps some intermediate grading system would be better, such as above-median or below-median for each course.


lol, and how is that different than HH/H/P ? Hahah.

Tautology
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby Tautology » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:35 pm

miamiman wrote:
Tautology wrote:Boalt's system is basically A, B, C, F, no?

HH/H/P


Right, which is just a different way of giving out As, Bs, or Cs, no? They call them different names in the hopes that people will decide not to calculate GPAs? Or is there a difference beyond what the grades are called? Are classes still curved?

miamiman
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby miamiman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:36 pm

Tautology wrote:
miamiman wrote:
Tautology wrote:Boalt's system is basically A, B, C, F, no?

HH/H/P


Right, which is just a different way of giving out As, Bs, or Cs, no? They call them different names in the hopes that people will decide not to calculate GPAs? Or is there a difference beyond what the grades are called? Are classes still curved?

more like As, Cs, and Fs.

Tautology
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby Tautology » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:37 pm

Oh, I assumed that there was an actual F option that you just didn't mention. P stands for pass?

miamiman
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby miamiman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:39 pm

Tautology wrote:Oh, I assumed that there was an actual F option that you just didn't mention. P stands for pass?

There might be a LP but i doubt it's ever issued.

Tautology
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby Tautology » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:41 pm

Well anyway, I don't see it as that different from schools who offer:

A
A-
B+
B
You suck

miamiman
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby miamiman » Sat Jun 26, 2010 11:42 pm

Tautology wrote:Well anyway, I don't see it as that different from schools who offer:

A
A-
B+
B
You suck


More like:

A, A-, you suck ITE

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Kurama
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby Kurama » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:35 am

Tautology wrote:Well anyway, I don't see it as that different from schools who offer:

A
A-
B+
B
You suck



I think that a lot of employers like the idea of being able to see an exact numerical grade. It makes it much easier for a firm to look and be able to say " Oh candidate one has a 3.45 and candidate 2 has a 3.37" than to say " He has 3Hs and 2Ps and he has 3 Ps and 1H and 1 HH".

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worldtraveler
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Re: Law schools with pass/fail grading system?

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Jun 27, 2010 10:55 am

Berkeley's grades are supposed to compare to HH= A, H=A-, and P= B+. This isn't coming from me, it's what the administration tells employers to use for comparison.

I think there are positives and negatives to it. The good part is that if you do really poorly in a class, it doesn't show. It's much less stressful to go into exams knowing that if you have the lowest grade in the class, it doesn't show. You can also choose to focus on courses of more interest to you without worrying about the consequences as much. If you get a Sub Pass your first semester, it also just shows up as a pass. It does relieve some of the pressure, and there are some people who don't care if they get all Ps.

The downside is that since 60% of people get a P in each class, you can do above median in every single class and look no different from someone who was at the bottom in each one. Really the grading system protects the bottom of the class. Since often people who get Hs or HHs get many of them, the middle and the bottom of the class can be harder to distinguish. I heard once that something like 20-30% of the 1L class normally has all Ps at the end of the year. This is clearly the bottom third then, but some of these people could have done fairly well in each class.

I have mixed feelings about the system as a whole. I like that if I ever bomb something, short of sub P it isn't going to show. I don't like how I can beat out 59 people in a 100 person class and still just get a P. Overall I think I like this system better than actual grades, but I wish the P was something like the bottom 50% or 40% of the class. I feel like 60% is a bit too much, and if you do above median there should be something to distinguish you.

I think Berkeley is a more relaxed and collegial environment than many other schools. However, I'm not sure if that has to do with the grading system or just the students.




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