Are law schools non-profit institutions?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
rejectmaster
Posts: 232
Joined: Tue Nov 17, 2009 4:20 pm

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby rejectmaster » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:06 pm

rayiner wrote:
rejectmaster wrote:And we pay more for health care here because insurance companies and malpractice laws/insurance really drain physicians/dentists. I'm the first in my family to pursue law over Medicine or Dentistry and that expense dominates conversation at family gatherings.


A Harvard study showed that malpractice suits added $60 billion to the costs of a the $1,200 billion health care industry. That 5% is not entirely overhead --- a lot of it is payment to people injured by malpractice that have suffered actual losses. In the same study, an expert panel of doctors went over a selection of jury verdicts in malpractice cases, and found that over 70% of the time, the jury's judgement about whether actual malpractice had occurred was clearly correct, and when they erred, juries tended to err on the side of doctors.

The actual overhead in the process (litigation, insurance, etc) is probably on the order of 2%. That is not high price for what is essentially the only external quality-control mechanism in the medical system.


Physicians are not generating close to the $1.2 billion figure cited above. Insurance companies are huge and employ tons of people.. this obviously inflates the figure. So that 2% on the entire statistic becomes much larger when applied to a doctor's compensation.

And Insurance/Managed Care/Illegal Immigrants who don't pay (really only a problem in border states) hurt doctors and force them to charge more. A doctor's office needs a staff to handle insurance claims, and needs to pay all of these people off of money earned from seeing patients.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:13 pm

General Tso wrote:
rayiner wrote:
rejectmaster wrote:And we pay more for health care here because insurance companies and malpractice laws/insurance really drain physicians/dentists. I'm the first in my family to pursue law over Medicine or Dentistry and that expense dominates conversation at family gatherings.


A Harvard study showed that malpractice suits added $60 billion to the costs of a the $1,200 billion health care industry. That 5% is not entirely overhead --- a lot of it is payment to people injured by malpractice that have suffered actual losses. In the same study, an expert panel of doctors went over a selection of jury verdicts in malpractice cases, and found that over 70% of the time, the jury's judgement about whether actual malpractice had occurred was clearly correct, and when they erred, juries tended to err on the side of doctors.

The actual overhead in the process (litigation, insurance, etc) is probably on the order of 2%. That is not high price for what is essentially the only external quality-control mechanism in the medical system.


Link to that study? I am very interested.


http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/faculty/art ... gation.pdf

That's the Harvard study.

Looking at it, I can't remember where the $60 bn figure comes from. It was in another article by a Harvard researcher, but I can't find it. It is however referenced here:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-k ... costs.html

kritiosboy
Posts: 83
Joined: Tue Dec 04, 2007 6:32 pm

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby kritiosboy » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:18 pm

.
Last edited by kritiosboy on Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby General Tso » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:30 pm

rayiner wrote:http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/faculty/art ... gation.pdf

That's the Harvard study.

Looking at it, I can't remember where the $60 bn figure comes from. It was in another article by a Harvard researcher, but I can't find it. It is however referenced here:

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-k ... costs.html


Thanks! Nice article, but unfortunately the doctor propaganda machine seems to have already won the public opinion.

User avatar
rayiner
Posts: 6184
Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 11:43 am

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby rayiner » Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:32 pm

Good quote from the article:

Far more common are errors that never lead to any action.
After reviewing thousands of patient records, medical researchers have estimated that only 2 to 3 percent of cases of medical negligence lead to a malpractice claim. ...

We could fix this pretty easily by making it much easier for patients to see the records of their own cases. If we did, that would cut down on "frivolous" lawsuits and it would increase the number of justified lawsuits. That would be fairer for everyone, but it probably wouldn't cut medical malpractice costs. It would increase them. That's why the medmal warriors never talk about this. They like the idea of cutting back on frivolous suits, but they're much less keen on admitting that there's also a lot of genuine malpractice that goes completely unnoticed.

motiontodismiss
Posts: 870
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:36 pm

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby motiontodismiss » Fri Jul 09, 2010 5:10 am

rejectmaster wrote:
The Accrediting Boards/Professional Boards responsibility is not to the free market, its to their professionals. A lot of doctors disdain the AMA, under a quarter of doctors are actually members. One can't argue, though, that it has allowed doctors to continue to be able to financially justify the (at least) decade of their lives (not to mention the investment) devoted to medical education. Now, the AMA is allowing new medical schools to open, but slowly and subject to rigorous standards so that more students can be accepted.



+1. The ABA answers to lawyers and lawyers ONLY. It has no responsibility to the free market, the public or anything else, but only to the professionals that form its membership. The AMA/ADA gets it. ABA doesn't.

rockstar4488
Posts: 198
Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 9:39 pm

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby rockstar4488 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 9:33 am

I believe that the sole gateway to the legal profession should be the bar exam. Perhaps make it more comprehensive as to make a legal education necessary to pass it. The ABA's choke-hold on the profession is a little unsettling.

User avatar
General Tso
Posts: 2289
Joined: Sun Dec 07, 2008 6:51 pm

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby General Tso » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:13 am

motiontodismiss wrote:
rejectmaster wrote:
The Accrediting Boards/Professional Boards responsibility is not to the free market, its to their professionals. A lot of doctors disdain the AMA, under a quarter of doctors are actually members. One can't argue, though, that it has allowed doctors to continue to be able to financially justify the (at least) decade of their lives (not to mention the investment) devoted to medical education. Now, the AMA is allowing new medical schools to open, but slowly and subject to rigorous standards so that more students can be accepted.



+1. The ABA answers to lawyers and lawyers ONLY. It has no responsibility to the free market, the public or anything else, but only to the professionals that form its membership. The AMA/ADA gets it. ABA doesn't.


it's irrelevant how many doctors are members of the AMA or how much some of them "disdain" it.

the AMA has a far greater responsibility to the public, because we depend on them as our sole source of medical care and because the federal government pays a substantial portion of the medical bills in this country.

User avatar
legalease9
Posts: 623
Joined: Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:41 pm

Re: Are law schools non-profit institutions?

Postby legalease9 » Fri Jul 09, 2010 10:32 am

Avoid For Profits! Despite the fact that traditional "non-profit" Institutions can be very money grubbing, there is a difference. Non Profits are trying to pull money into their institution (from you, the student) for the betterment of their institution. This can be somewhat less noble for law, as some law schools siphon off law-school money to give to the University as a whole. But its still not as bad as For Profits.

For Profits are trying to pull money (from you) to give to the Wall Street Shareholders. Because of this, actually educating becomes the lowest priority. I have friends who have gone this route. The goal of the for profit becomes trapping you in their institution as long as possible, to get more of that tuition money. At least non-profits have a rep for doing everything in their power to get you graduated on time.

Add to this that for profit Law Schools are all shit-ranked, and there is no reason to attend a for-profit law school.




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest