Biglaw opportunities outside NYC/DC/LA? Specifically Philly?

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Duralex
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Re: Biglaw opportunities outside NYC/DC/LA? Specifically Philly?

Postby Duralex » Thu Jun 17, 2010 3:05 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Duralex wrote:California, taken as a whole, is the largest legal market in the United States


I SMELL FALSE STATISTICS.

http://www.averyindex.com/lawyers_per_capita.php (NY has 2x the lawyers per capita)

--LinkRemoved-- (NY has more lawyers than CA)

Thanks for playing, though!

Number of lawyers per capita is not a proper singular measure of a legal market. Otherwise I could have a notional state with a population of 20 people, and if one of them were a lawyer I could claim the largest market in the nation. Note that Delaware ranks third in the AveryIndex list. That's LOL, corporate work in its chancery courts aside.

That said, I've been skeptical about the absolute nature of the claim as well--I'm not sure precisely what stats are used to support it. I'll ask the people I've heard this from. Still, it seems misleading to lump LA/SF in with all of the other "secondary" markets if we're only going to recognize two levels.

EDIT: As pertains to market size by lawyers per capita, a ten year old RAND study suggests to me that CA's claim of supremacy may have been true (relatively briefly) in the past, which makes sense given the people I've heard this from are largely vets of the "LA Law" era. Excerpt below.

The overall conclusion we draw from examining quantitative data from the profile and projections is that the number of Bar-certified lawyers is likely to keep pace with or exceed the expected growth in demand between now and 2015, for the state as a whole and for each region in the state as well.
After 10 decades over which the legal profession grew approximately as a function of population growth in the United States, the 1970s and 1980s witnessed an unprecedented expansion in the number of lawyers per capita, with California leading the nation on this measure. By 1990, there was an acknowledged oversupply of attorneys, and a declining economy led many of them to exit the profession. At present, data from the profile and projections suggest that in California the labor market may be in near equilibrium; that is, overall levels of supply and demand are reasonably well matched, as noted above. That the ratio of lawyers per thousand people in California is now approximating the national average after having been substantially higher earlier in the decade tends to substantiate this view.

from http://www.rand.org/pubs/monograph_repo ... 10.sum.pdf

keg411
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Re: Biglaw opportunities outside NYC/DC/LA? Specifically Philly?

Postby keg411 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 6:57 pm

Duralex wrote:
keg411 wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:Houston/Dallas/Chicago I don't think are second tier markets.


Chicago is a primary market (NY/DC/Chi). Houston and Dallas (and all of the other large markets after the "big 3" are secondary including LA/SF.


California, taken as a whole, is the largest legal market in the United States (in fact, that claim is regularly made for SoCal alone.) You can attempt to qualify that by some measurement of biglaw presence, but the above is too cut and dried (especially by lumping LA/SF in with others mentioned ITT.)


Califonia is a state, not a market. hth.

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nealric
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Re: Biglaw opportunities outside NYC/DC/LA? Specifically Philly?

Postby nealric » Thu Jun 17, 2010 8:04 pm

I've definitely heard a lot of anecdotal talk in support of the idea that Temple/Villanova > Penn for the Philly market.


NO. Just No.

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x47point6
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Re: Biglaw opportunities outside NYC/DC/LA? Specifically Philly?

Postby x47point6 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:22 pm

nealric wrote:
I've definitely heard a lot of anecdotal talk in support of the idea that Temple/Villanova > Penn for the Philly market.


NO. Just No.


Don't get me wrong—that's what I said, too.

ze2151
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Re: Biglaw opportunities outside NYC/DC/LA? Specifically Philly?

Postby ze2151 » Thu Jun 17, 2010 10:26 pm

The plain fact is, Penn is the IT school in all of Pennsylvania. However, the Penn-Temple dynamic is very similar to the Emory-UGA dynamic as I understand it. I lived in PA all my life and Philly for most of that. Penn grads have to convince employers they actually want to stay in Philly. Temple grads don't have that problem. There are many Temple grads working right alongside Penn grads at big firms in Phila (maybe ITE has changed that a bit though). Temple is the best school for working in the city of Philly proper. Villanova is a great school too, but I would say Temple edges it out in that particular market. But I think Villanova has cache across the river in Jersey.

Penn wins. Firms will go WAY deeper into Penn's class. That has always been true. Penn is the school, if you can stomach the snobbery. Enjoy it if you get in! Go to the Palestra and kiss the floor for me.

edit: when I said "Temple is the best school for working in Philly proper" I meant between Temple and Villanova. Penn is in a different class.

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Duralex
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Re: Biglaw opportunities outside NYC/DC/LA? Specifically Philly?

Postby Duralex » Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:20 am

keg411 wrote:Califonia is a state, not a market.


How droll. Some work for some kinds of clients forms a state wide market, other kind of work may be regionally distributed, or locally. But this is supposed to be about Philly, anyway.

keg411 wrote:hth

hand

motiontodismiss
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Re: Biglaw opportunities outside NYC/DC/LA? Specifically Philly?

Postby motiontodismiss » Sat Jun 19, 2010 2:13 pm

Duralex wrote:
keg411 wrote:
motiontodismiss wrote:Houston/Dallas/Chicago I don't think are second tier markets.


Chicago is a primary market (NY/DC/Chi). Houston and Dallas (and all of the other large markets after the "big 3" are secondary including LA/SF.


California, taken as a whole, is the largest legal market in the United States (in fact, that claim is regularly made for SoCal alone.) You can attempt to qualify that by some measurement of biglaw presence, but the above is too cut and dried (especially by lumping LA/SF in with others mentioned ITT.)


The CA criminal law market is huge :D

Of course most of them can't pay for their own counsel so they end up being represented by PD's but whatever.




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