dilemma--I've got local career, wife got a 177 LSAT Forum

[creamedcats]

A high LSAT score is not a commandment from G*d to attend HYS, nor is a 177 a guaranteed ticket to any of them. If he can move his business, hey, great...go for it. If they're both really happy whereever they are, also great. I'd say a lot depends on her goals and what the local school is. I think they need to give all of their options a serious assessment. It would be silly to turn down a shot at HYS without understanding the options they give you after graduation. It would also be silly to say that a high test score means it's time to uproot your family and sell your business, unless you both feel like you want to do that.

[toolfan]

Your wife's cheating on you with her LSAT instructor who is also a cop. Shoot wife with a gun identical to the cop's. Switch guns. Get local hot shot ADA who has never lost a case to prosecute you. Represent yourself. Impress the jury with your legal knowledge. Walk away a free man. Don't let hot shot ADA figure out the truth because he will find the real gun, and don't terminate wife's life support until you know for sure hot shot ADA has given up. Sell car dealership, cash in wife's life insurance policy, and make it rain in the tropical locale of your choice.

is 'Fracture' in your dvd player?

[Scallywaggums]

Why not get yourself a good GM and move? Split the money. $100K is nothing to sneeze at. Owners don't need to be there for it to run right.

This is a really good idea. However, if the community's small enough, it may have a significant impact on sales. Locals in smaller communities might like the idea of the real deal family business, and be showing up to your lot because their parents patronized yer pops (and clearly you've done a great job keeping up the standard of service). If you leave a GM in charge they may feel like your blood and sweat are no longer being poured into it, and they might consider your competition. Moot point if you're downtown in a city, or have another reason to believe that this would not be an issue.

"Compromise" is not always "cutting down the middle". You have a ridiculously good hookup that is not only extremely lucrative, but also very sentimental. My .02 is that you shouldn't feel guilty if you want to stay, and she shouldn't be upset about it. (Flip your roles: would you want her to leave her family business so you could attend a top school? Hopefully your answer is no.) As you said, "she still insists that she'd be ok with that". She's probably being honest with you. There's no need for you to feel guilty about this, as long as you know that, had things been totally different (without your family biz), and she'd already decided to go to Harvard, you'd happily turn down any incredible job offer to go with her. In other words, you'd make the sacrifice if it came up, so there's no need to feel guilty that she's willing to make this sacrifice for you. [Just realize you owe her big, for life]

Finishing this would be much easier if you'd responded to our many calls for your location. She deserves a good school, and we have no idea where you live. Ideally you have a solid local school, but maybe not. Your "dilemma" should only be a compromise between distance from one another and prestige of school... unless of course you like the GM option for your business.

[Scallywaggums]

So I guess my question is basically whether in the long run it'd be better financially for me to sell my business and go with her to some fancy school, or have her stay around here and go to law school at a local law school?

It's impossible to answer the question from a purely mathematical perspective, but here's an idea:
You're already making $200K
IF she gets into a great school, and IF she kills it, and IF she nails interviews etc. she'll be among the fortunate few making $160K to start.
IF she survives, she could wind up making partner, with potential for north of a million/year, but this is extreeeeeeeeeemely rare.

So yeah, it MIGHT be better financially in the long run, but it's very high risk.

Granted, I didn't put you into the equation, but if you did actually sell your business, the LAST thing you should do with it in this economy is try to start an automobile lot somewhere. Unless you're extremely savvy with investment, I'm not sure how much good it'll do ya, aside from buying a home outright (which is nothing to scoff at). But then you have to find a job. You surely read the news closer than any of us when auto sales shops were sacked nationwide. I don't know when cash for clunkers expired or if they're renewing it, but this is not an industry to play musical chairs in. Although I'm sure your ownership status would set you apart, you won't be the only person with experience looking for work, and it just seems like a horrible time to take that kind of risk.

TL,DR: If your only concern is "whether in the long run it'd be better financially for [you] to sell [your] business and go with her to some fancy school", only if you're both very lucky. Not a safe bet.

[Fark-o-vision]

Everyone has said not enough information and I think thats true. Unless she's hoping for judiciary, why not go to the local law school? The only reason you go to top law schools is to work in top law firms and the only reason (it seems) that people want to work in top law firms is to earn top dollar. If the marriage is a committed one, then monetary concerns seem irrelevant. Of course, she wants to make as much as she can, but it seems like when you couple OP's income with the wife's seeming desire to stay local then I think the choice is pretty clear. At least right now.

[motiontodismiss]

Personally I think that part of exchanging vows means maybe passing up options like Harvard Law. .

No way. Never. If I get into (insert T14 school or T20 school with $ here) I'm going, come hell or high water.

Having a career >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Love, Happiness, Hobbies, Stuff Like That

Money doesn't buy happiness but it sure as hell helps.

OP: Sorry to be blunt, but if your marriage can't survive 3 years apart, you don't belong together.

[rayiner]

I've been selling cars for over 10 years--since I was 17--and have gotten pretty successful at it in my local community. For the past 3 years I've been running my dad's old car lot, and I make over $200k per year doing it, even with the downturn. Thing is, it kind of ties me down to this particular location, which isn't close to any law school that would qualify as a "top law school" like you folks here go to. Because I basically inherited a thriving business, I'm not sure I could just pick up shop somewhere else and make anything close to what I'm making here.

Other thing is, I married a smartie, who just graduated with highest honors at the local college. We'd always planned on her going to law school around here afterward. She still insists that she'd be okay with that, but I know that she could go somewhere like Harvard, and I'd feel extremely guilty if she gave something like that up for me.

So I guess my question is basically whether in the long run it'd be better financially for me to sell my business and go with her to some fancy school, or have her stay around here and go to law school at a local law school?

Why not get yourself a good GM and move? Split the money. $100K is nothing to sneeze at. Owners don't need to be there for it to run right.

TITCR. Everything else is not TCR.

[CG614]

Sell the business and purchase another business in new location. You will have to do some serious research, but if you find a good opportunity, then you can do well in the new place too. It takes a lot of work to run a successful car dealership, so you have the work ethic to pull it off. A $200,000 stream of annuity has a PV of about $3.3 Million discounted at 6%.

[kalvano]

OP: Sorry to be blunt, but if your marriage can't survive 3 years apart, you don't belong together.

It has nothing to do with whether or not it can survive. I'd be miserable without my wife around for 3 years, and extra stress / misery is not something one needs in law school.

[Renzo]

OP: Sorry to be blunt, but if your marriage can't survive 3 years apart, you don't belong together.

Thank god this board gives better advice on law school than it does on marriage

[Paichka]

I think both sides of this debate have relevant points. Your marriage "should" be able to survive a separation. You "shouldn't" hold your spouse back from their dreams. The problem is that reality has a way of intruding on what you think a marriage should be. What you should do is sit down with your spouse and be honest about what you want and what you're willing to sacrifice to get there. Marriages can and will survive worse than three years of weekends and webcamming...both spouses need to be on the same sheet of music, however, if it's going to work.

My husband and I are separated right now -- he's in Iraq, but even if he were stateside, he's stationed in Savannah. I'm in DC. We knew going into it that he wasn't going to be able to join me until about halfway through 2L year. Until he left for Iraq, we saw each other maybe twice a month, and then for two weeks around Christmas right before he deployed. It sucks, to be honest, but we'd have been in the same boat no matter where I chose to go to school. We talk over Skype a couple of times a day, and webcam several times a week, plus emails and facebook. Talking to him is just as much of a priority to me as studying, so I budget time in my day that is non-negotiably his. Because we're both active duty military, this is probably not going to be our only separation throughout our careers, but that's okay.

Anyway, my point is just that separations don't have to be marriage-killers. It's hard work, but it's definitely doable.

[cavebat2000]

She's gonna be your sugar-momma in like 5 years, just go with her.

He makes $200k a year. This is not credited.

oh hahaha, didn't read that part.

-1 to me.

[romothesavior]

OP: Sorry to be blunt, but if your marriage can't survive 3 years apart, you don't belong together.

This is ridiculous.

[NotANoob]

Personally I think that part of exchanging vows means maybe passing up options like Harvard Law. She should go somewhere close enough that you can at least see each other on weekends. She knew about your livelihood and its lack of portability before she took the LSAT and besides, this just means she can probably get a full ride at your local school. If you're afraid she's going to resent you for it, be very open and honest with her but lay down what you are and aren't willing to live with. You've worked damn hard to get where you are, though, and her intelligence shouldn't minimize the importance of your own achievements.

Everything you said could be flipped around. Why does marriage mean his goals trump hers? Sounds like they both knew going in that their goals might conflict at some point. Relatively speaking, going to HYS presents opportunities that are more difficult to replicate than the ones he has. If he is doing well in his business there are two possible reasons for it: he could still be riding the coat tails of the rep his family built, or he could be a phenomenal sales person. If it is the former category, then her giving up a possible opportunities of HYS would be very short sighted. If it's the latter, then he should be able to relocate.

Now this doesn't mean that she must go to a top school. She has to figure out what she really wants out of her career. If those goals can be met by going to the local school, then there is no reason to go elsewhere. But HYS and a local school for free are not interchangeable in the opportunities they afford. By no means should she go chasing prestige for the sake of it, but these guys need to figure out what is really on the line.

As for the marriage advice -- there are no universal right answers. Every couple is different and should make decisions for themselves. Being married to someone who has an incredible intellect and career ambitions, I can say that what has "given" in our relationship is money. We have always taken the approach that our career moves revolve around personal fulfillment. We've each taken major hits in our careers to allow the other one to pursue opportunities as they have come along. We have been careful to communicate with each other about what is important to us in the abstract. This has made navigating day to day decisions easier. When faced with a concrete decision, it can be tough to step back and think of how it fits in the big picture. Knowing what your general goals are makes it a lot easier to make tough decisions.

For example, in the OP's case, I would step back from talking about law school and the dealership and talk about what each of them finds fulfilling, and where they see themselves in 10 years. Is the attraction to staying with the dealership purely financial? What would the obstacles be to starting over? What does the OP find fulfilling in his work? Are there ways of replicated those pieces in other jobs/parts of the country? What does OP's wife want out of a legal career? What kind of environment does she want to live in? Where does she want to see her career in 10 years? Breaking down the issue into the "why" can help solve it. It can also help them think outside the box. I've given up a lot of opportunities in my career. So has my wife. We've staggered them though, and done things in such a way as to not close doors on each other. Along these lines, OP might be able to reach a compromise -- if it turns out that his wife really does want access to what HYS has to offer, then the answer may be to delay her applications for a few years and let OP work on a business plan that will allow them to move and for him to find something fulfilling for himself. Or they might be able to work out a commuting relationship where OP turns more work over to someone else during certain periods. There are many ways to make things work.

Or it might turn out that the path his wife wants to follow can be accomplished by attending the local school. But this is a decision that they can only get to by hashing out all the angles. "Laying down" what OP is willing to deal with is a recipe for a broken relationship. Ultimately, each of them does need to decide what they can live with -- and it is possible that each is so tied to their own goals that there is no way to combine them. But this should come at the end of a process, not as a starting point.

My wife and I have always worked from the initial assumption that "if it's important to you, we can find a way to make it work." I'm happy to say, with this attitude, we always have.

[Mr. Matlock]

OP: Sorry to be blunt, but if your marriage can't survive 3 years apart, you don't belong together.

Thank god this board gives better advice on law school than it does on marriage

Renzo, all I can say is + Eleventy Billionfinity.

Instead of getting upset, I'll just choose to:

[Regionality]

Where the F* is OP? Lotsa great questions/contingent suggestions from posters but nothing from OP!

[GATORTIM]

ITT OP asks a vague question and TLSers spend days going back and forth with "if this then _____" scenarios. All the while OP has sold a 1994 Ford Tempo in "Like New" condition and is currently reviewing 5 offers on 2008 Camry repo. His wife is curled up on the couch reading GTM as she preps for her 1st year at Regent.....proceed

[HLS2000]

My very serious girlfriend was admitted to Stanford Law School (and really liked it there--especially since it is small and has a high clerkship rate), but she made the tough choice to stay in New York and attend Columbia Law School instead. We looked into the possibility of doing a long distance relationship for 3 years. (I am pretty settled in my job here and wasn't in a position to quickly sell my apartment. She also ultimately wanted to practice in New York anyway.)

But ultimately she decided that in light of the stress of 1L year, she would do better in the long term staying here rather going to CA. I sometimes worry she may have given up something in staying here (mainly better clerkship opportunities). But we both agree now that we both would have been miserable her whole 1L year if she had moved 3000 miles away. We would have found a way to stay together, but 1 year (and certainly 3 years) is a long time to be away from someone you love.

I admit that the choice between Columbia and Stanford is not as great as the choice between say Stanford and some more regional school. But my point is that people do make sacrifices for love when it comes to law school.

[kalvano]

My very serious girlfriend was admitted to Stanford Law School (and really liked it there--especially since it is small and has a high clerkship rate), but she made the tough choice to stay in New York and attend Columbia Law School instead. We looked into the possibility of doing a long distance relationship for 3 years. (I am pretty settled in my job here and wasn't in a position to quickly sell my apartment. She also ultimately wanted to practice in New York anyway.)

But ultimately she decided that in light of the stress of 1L year, she would do better in the long term staying here rather going to CA. I sometimes worry she may have given up something in staying here (mainly better clerkship opportunities). But we both agree now that we both would have been miserable her whole 1L year if she had moved 3000 miles away. We would have found a way to stay together, but 1 year (and certainly 3 years) is a long time to be away from someone you love.

I admit that the choice between Columbia and Stanford is not as great as the choice between say Stanford and some more regional school. But my point is that people do make sacrifices for love when it comes to law school.

Congratulations on making your girlfriend blow any chance at a decent future.

[Kohinoor]

My very serious girlfriend was admitted to Stanford Law School (and really liked it there--especially since it is small and has a high clerkship rate), but she made the tough choice to stay in New York and attend Columbia Law School instead. We looked into the possibility of doing a long distance relationship for 3 years. (I am pretty settled in my job here and wasn't in a position to quickly sell my apartment. She also ultimately wanted to practice in New York anyway.)

But ultimately she decided that in light of the stress of 1L year, she would do better in the long term staying here rather going to CA. I sometimes worry she may have given up something in staying here (mainly better clerkship opportunities). But we both agree now that we both would have been miserable her whole 1L year if she had moved 3000 miles away. We would have found a way to stay together, but 1 year (and certainly 3 years) is a long time to be away from someone you love.

I admit that the choice between Columbia and Stanford is not as great as the choice between say Stanford and some more regional school. But my point is that people do make sacrifices for love when it comes to law school.

Congratulations on making your girlfriend blow any chance at a decent future.

One way or another, some high level trolling in this post.

[pugalicious]

Everything you said could be flipped around. Why does marriage mean his goals trump hers?

If her goal really was to go to HYS, then why did she marry a guy who runs his family car lot? It's not like this guy has a career that could easily transfer. If she's smart enough to get a 177, let's assume she realized going into the marriage that she would be settling down in whatever area of the country the car lot is in. She probably prefers that - maybe she likes the area, maybe she grew up there, etc. In that case, why uproot her life to send her to some far away law school? Just go to the local school (since she wants to live locally anyway).

If her goal is and has always been to go to Yale, get a biglaw job in NYC, profit ... then she entered into a marriage knowing she'd have to trump his goals with hers, ruin or sell off his family's business, and move him away from the area where his family has settled for generations...

[Kohinoor]

Personally I think that part of exchanging vows means maybe passing up options like Harvard Law. .

No way. Never. If I get into (insert T14 school or T20 school with $ here) I'm going, come hell or high water.

Having a career >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Love, Happiness, Hobbies, Stuff Like That

Money doesn't buy happiness but it sure as hell helps.

OP: Sorry to be blunt, but if your marriage can't survive 3 years apart, you don't belong together.

I've always said that if your marriage can't survive your wife having a girl-guy-guy threesome and not inviting you, you don't belong together.

[GATORTIM]

my point is that people do make sacrifices for love when it comes to law school.

[NotANoob]

Everything you said could be flipped around. Why does marriage mean his goals trump hers?

If her goal really was to go to HYS, then why did she marry a guy who runs his family car lot? It's not like this guy has a career that could easily transfer. If she's smart enough to get a 177, let's assume she realized going into the marriage that she would be settling down in whatever area of the country the car lot is in. She probably prefers that - maybe she likes the area, maybe she grew up there, etc. In that case, why uproot her life to send her to some far away law school? Just go to the local school (since she wants to live locally anyway).

If her goal is and has always been to go to Yale, get a biglaw job in NYC, profit ... then she entered into a marriage knowing she'd have to trump his goals with hers, ruin or sell off his family's business, and move him away from the area where his family has settled for generations...

Goals evolve. Relationships need to evolve with them. Sounds like these guys got married young. The biggest challenge in those cases is figuring out how to grow together. Either one of them just saying "my way or the highway" shows a lack of commitment to the relationship and each other.

[Scallywaggums]

...
She has to figure out what she really wants out of her career. If those goals can be met by going to the local school, then there is no reason to go elsewhere. But HYS and a local school for free are not interchangeable in the opportunities they afford...

...I would step back from talking about law school and the dealership and talk about what each of them finds fulfilling, and where they see themselves in 10 years. Is the attraction to staying with the dealership purely financial? What would the obstacles be to starting over? What does the OP find fulfilling in his work? Are there ways of replicated those pieces in other jobs/parts of the country? What does OP's wife want out of a legal career? What kind of environment does she want to live in? Where does she want to see her career in 10 years?

+1. NotALawyer, we have taken this as far as it can go without your location. Also it'd be interesting to hear the "attraction to the dealership" & "what are her goals" questions answered. It's Sunday man, throw us a bone.