Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

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b.j.
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Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby b.j. » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:45 pm

According to what I saw in another thread, an MA probably isn't going to help you in your legal career. But what about an MS in finance (whatever it's called depending on the school) or an MBA or an MPH? If you want to do something with business or securities law, wouldn't getting some additional background in finance or something similar be helpful, even if it does extend your schooling a year?

Renzo
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:53 pm

Depends on A) the school B) the degree and C) what you want out of it.

Wharton JD/MBA for consulting--very helpful.

MS in finance for corporate firm practice--probably a waste.

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thesealocust
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 07, 2010 7:55 pm

never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:10 pm

thesealocust wrote:Yes.

I'd say even a Penn JD/MBA is worthless. Just fucking pick one. If it turns out the other might prove helpful later on you can pick it up, but entry level hiring for JD/MBAs doesn't exist - you'll get hired as a lawyer or an, er, uh, MBA-er, and neither BONUS DEGREE will do anything but make you look like a flight risk.

This is generally true, but a tiny bit too strong, I think. I would say something more along the lines of: generally worthless, can hurt definitely hurt, but in very limited circumstances (again, like consulting) might help a little.

dempsey
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby dempsey » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:12 pm

I think it depends upon your career goals. JD/MPH or MHA might be useful if you intend to work in healthcare law, gain some credibility at a firm, then transition into hospital administration...same goes for other joint degree programs

Renzo
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:17 pm

dempsey wrote:I think it depends upon your career goals. JD/MPH or MHA might be useful if you intend to work in healthcare law, gain some credibility at a firm, then transition into hospital administration...same goes for other joint degree programs

Except nothing in healthcare law has anything to do with the business of healthcare. And, it won't get you credibility at a firm, it will give the impression that you don't really want to work at firm. Plus, some firms don't bother trying to figure out when to interview joint degree students (2L summer? 3L summer?), and pretty much write them off.

b.j.
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby b.j. » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:20 pm

dempsey wrote:I think it depends upon your career goals. JD/MPH or MHA might be useful if you intend to work in healthcare law, gain some credibility at a firm, then transition into hospital administration...same goes for other joint degree programs


So if you want to do something related to law and finance, it's definitely better to just focus on doing well and standing out in law school than to get the MS in finance?

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dextermorgan
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby dextermorgan » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:28 pm

A JD/MSW is useful for certain areas of social work, but isn't necessary for the equivalent area of legal practice.

dempsey
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby dempsey » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:32 pm

Renzo, a lot of lawyers involved in healthcare law also have an MHA. And I have worked with legal departments at hospitals, and a parent is an executive at a hospital, and there is a lot of overlap, and according to my mother (again, an actual executive who hires and is part of the field) a joint degree of the type I described is helpful

Renzo
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:38 pm

dempsey wrote:Renzo, a lot of lawyers involved in healthcare law also have an MHA. And I have worked with legal departments at hospitals, and a parent is an executive at a hospital, and there is a lot of overlap, and according to my mother (again, an actual executive who hires and is part of the field) a joint degree of the type I described is helpful

Yes, but ask around and see how many went back and picked up the MHA after they were on the job. This is what Sealocust was saying: If you want to be a hospital administrator, get that degree; if you want to be a lawyer, go to law school. If you want to do neither, get both degrees. No one wants a lawyer for an entry-level business job, and no one wants a new law associate who doesn't really want to be a lawyer.

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lostjake
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby lostjake » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:39 pm

JD/MS will certainly help you if you're able to get the degree.

dempsey
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby dempsey » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:43 pm

Renzo, I can only speak to my own experience, so maybe you are right ultimately, but I just wonder how you have drawn your conclusions? I know and have worked with the general counsel to a hospital, and again, my mother is an executive at a hospital, and both confirm the joint degree is an asset. And many practicing lawyers have the joint degree, and while I can't confirm that all gained them concurrently, I can't confirm the opposite either.

Renzo
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:54 pm

dempsey wrote:Renzo, I can only speak to my own experience, so maybe you are right ultimately, but I just wonder how you have drawn your conclusions? I know and have worked with the general counsel to a hospital, and again, my mother is an executive at a hospital, and both confirm the joint degree is an asset. And many practicing lawyers have the joint degree, and while I can't confirm that all gained them concurrently, I can't confirm the opposite either.

This is why I was slightly less negative then Sealocust. There are jobs where a dual degree might be beneficial, but it's almost universally a waste of money for an entry-level job seeker, and can definitely be a detriment to job searches. If you find yourself in a GCs office, or at a bank, or a hospital, or whatever; do what everyone else does and go pick up the executive MBA (or whatever degree applies).

byunbee
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby byunbee » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:57 pm

What about a JD/MS in _____ engineering for IP law? Wouldn't/shouldn't that help?

Renzo
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 8:58 pm

byunbee wrote:What about a JD/MS in _____ engineering for IP law? Wouldn't/shouldn't that help?

Yes. IP is a big, huge exception. Being an engineer is a golden ticket.

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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby byunbee » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:03 pm

Renzo wrote:Yes. IP is a big, huge exception. Being an engineer is a golden ticket.


Damn, damn, damn. Mother always told me to be an engineer.

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HeelsforHoos
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby HeelsforHoos » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:09 pm

What about for academics? Would getting a Masters in a related field help one to become an academic? Would this help to build an academic specialty?

I know that usual disclaimers apply about the extraordinary selectivity of academic positions and the need to go to YLS.

byunbee
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby byunbee » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:12 pm

HeelsforHoos wrote:What about for academics? Would getting a Masters in a related field help one to become an academic? Would this help to build an academic specialty?

I know that usual disclaimers apply about the extraordinary selectivity of academic positions and the need to go to YLS.


I think I saw some statistic somewhere that I can't reproduce but is easily searchable that showed that a good proportion (could be the majority, I can't remember) of the new hires in academia were JD/masters or JD/Ph.D.

I don't know if it's absolutely necessary, but it might give you a sense of what it might take to make it in that field.

Renzo
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:16 pm

HeelsforHoos wrote:What about for academics? Would getting a Masters in a related field help one to become an academic? Would this help to build an academic specialty?

I know that usual disclaimers apply about the extraordinary selectivity of academic positions and the need to go to YLS.

Ask the academic careers advisor at your HYSCC school, they'll be able to tell you.

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thesealocust
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:19 pm

never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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thesealocust
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:20 pm

never mind
Last edited by thesealocust on Sun Jun 27, 2010 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Renzo
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby Renzo » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:25 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Renzo wrote:
byunbee wrote:What about a JD/MS in _____ engineering for IP law? Wouldn't/shouldn't that help?

Yes. IP is a big, huge exception. Being an engineer is a golden ticket.


Ugh. No it's not. IP is hurting too. I know a lot of engineer types at T14s who struck out and/or got no-offered. And you need strong and specific engineering credentials to even approach golden ticket, it's not a one-size-fits-all.

I'd be willing to bet that the ratio of no-offered/no callback IP qualified candidates is way, way, way lower than the general applicant population. Law is still a dire job market, but inside that limited set of dire job possibilities, I stand by my golden ticket assertion.

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lostjake
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Re: Are All Combinbed J.D./Master's Programs Worthless?

Postby lostjake » Mon Jun 07, 2010 9:26 pm

thesealocust wrote:
Renzo wrote:
byunbee wrote:What about a JD/MS in _____ engineering for IP law? Wouldn't/shouldn't that help?

Yes. IP is a big, huge exception. Being an engineer is a golden ticket.


Ugh. No it's not. IP is hurting too. I know a lot of engineer types at T14s who struck out and/or got no-offered. And you need strong and specific engineering credentials to even approach golden ticket, it's not a one-size-fits-all.


+1 unfortunately.




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