Non T14 schools with good employment prospects? Forum

[S de Garmeaux]

No Loyolas though.

i know its from a few pages back, but care to elaborate?

[cbliang]

.

[dominkay]

I don't think you understand what "poverty" actually means. Buying a house with 20% down is not a "basic need," even if it feels that way to you.

CoL index in NY is ~250. Take the national poverty level and multiply x2.5 and I assure you you'll get something close to $45k.

Poverty= the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions.

Hence, the definition of the word poverty is subjective. I define it as someone unable to:
1. provide for themselves any safety net (which I define as 8-12 months' expenses),
2. adequately address current needs without going into credit card debt, and
3. reasonably scale down their lifestyle to adapt to any reduction in income.

You're completely unable to save anything off a $60k paycheck in New York City, period, let alone $40k. That is, without living on cat food and cold cereal.

The federal poverty level in 2009 was $10,830.

Multiplied by 2.5, that's $27,075.

$27,075 is a far cry from $45k.

To put it simply, you have no idea what you're talking about. I grew up in New York and still live here. I'm also FROM a third-world country, so I know what poverty actually is.

My current household income is over $60k, but when it was less than that, my boyfriend and I still managed to live alone, pay our own bills, buy fancy electronics, go out to eat all the time (including, occasionally, to fancy restaurants), go on vacation, and SAVE MONEY. That was poverty? Really?

My step-father has lived in the city for about fifteen years, makes about $75k working as an engineer, and has managed to save literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in that time. He and my mom are looking to buy a house IN CASH.

[romothesavior]

I agree with you dominkay.

Honestly, the attitudes of some of the people in this thread really irk me. I usually defend our generation against attacks from older generations, but this type of attitude makes me ashamed to be a member of Generation Y.

[calgal17]

I don't think you understand what "poverty" actually means. Buying a house with 20% down is not a "basic need," even if it feels that way to you.

CoL index in NY is ~250. Take the national poverty level and multiply x2.5 and I assure you you'll get something close to $45k.

Poverty= the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions.

Hence, the definition of the word poverty is subjective. I define it as someone unable to:
1. provide for themselves any safety net (which I define as 8-12 months' expenses),
2. adequately address current needs without going into credit card debt, and
3. reasonably scale down their lifestyle to adapt to any reduction in income.

You're completely unable to save anything off a $60k paycheck in New York City, period, let alone $40k. That is, without living on cat food and cold cereal.

The federal poverty level in 2009 was $10,830.

Multiplied by 2.5, that's $27,075.

$27,075 is a far cry from $45k.

To put it simply, you have no idea what you're talking about. I grew up in New York and still live here. I'm also FROM a third-world country, so I know what poverty actually is.

My current household income is over $60k, but when it was less than that, my boyfriend and I still managed to live alone, pay our own bills, buy fancy electronics, go out to eat all the time (including, occasionally, to fancy restaurants), go on vacation, and SAVE MONEY. That was poverty? Really?

My step-father has lived in the city for about fifteen years, makes about $75k working as an engineer, and has managed to save literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in that time. He and my mom are looking to buy a house IN CASH.

Exactly! People have no idea how low the federal poverty line is.

[20160810]

I agree with you dominkay.

Honestly, the attitudes of some of the people in this thread really irk me. I usually defend our generation against attacks from older generations, but this type of attitude makes me ashamed to be a member of Generation Y.

If this was the first thing to make you ashamed, it's already too late for you.

[djgoldbe]

I don't think you understand what "poverty" actually means. Buying a house with 20% down is not a "basic need," even if it feels that way to you.

CoL index in NY is ~250. Take the national poverty level and multiply x2.5 and I assure you you'll get something close to $45k.

Poverty= the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions.

Hence, the definition of the word poverty is subjective. I define it as someone unable to:
1. provide for themselves any safety net (which I define as 8-12 months' expenses),
2. adequately address current needs without going into credit card debt, and
3. reasonably scale down their lifestyle to adapt to any reduction in income.

You're completely unable to save anything off a $60k paycheck in New York City, period, let alone $40k. That is, without living on cat food and cold cereal.

The definition might have some leeway, but based off of your definition I'd say you are just unaware of the meaning. Not having a 'safety net' might make one prone to poverty, but in no way does it make you impoverished. Different terms, different meanings, and most importantly, different lives.

[muffinberry]

OP:

When you apply to UC Davies, make sure you write the optional "Why Davies" essay. It will show them you really want to be here. Good luck buddy!

LOL

[motiontodismiss]

I don't think you understand what "poverty" actually means. Buying a house with 20% down is not a "basic need," even if it feels that way to you.

CoL index in NY is ~250. Take the national poverty level and multiply x2.5 and I assure you you'll get something close to $45k.

Poverty= the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions.

Hence, the definition of the word poverty is subjective. I define it as someone unable to:
1. provide for themselves any safety net (which I define as 8-12 months' expenses),
2. adequately address current needs without going into credit card debt, and
3. reasonably scale down their lifestyle to adapt to any reduction in income.

You're completely unable to save anything off a $60k paycheck in New York City, period, let alone $40k. That is, without living on cat food and cold cereal.

The federal poverty level in 2009 was $10,830.

Multiplied by 2.5, that's $27,075.

$27,075 is a far cry from $45k.

To put it simply, you have no idea what you're talking about. I grew up in New York and still live here. I'm also FROM a third-world country, so I know what poverty actually is.

My current household income is over $60k, but when it was less than that, my boyfriend and I still managed to live alone, pay our own bills, buy fancy electronics, go out to eat all the time (including, occasionally, to fancy restaurants), go on vacation, and SAVE MONEY. That was poverty? Really?

My step-father has lived in the city for about fifteen years, makes about $75k working as an engineer, and has managed to save literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in that time. He and my mom are looking to buy a house IN CASH.

Past performance != future performance.

[dominkay]

I don't think you understand what "poverty" actually means. Buying a house with 20% down is not a "basic need," even if it feels that way to you.

CoL index in NY is ~250. Take the national poverty level and multiply x2.5 and I assure you you'll get something close to $45k.

Poverty= the state of one who lacks a usual or socially acceptable amount of money or material possessions.

Hence, the definition of the word poverty is subjective. I define it as someone unable to:
1. provide for themselves any safety net (which I define as 8-12 months' expenses),
2. adequately address current needs without going into credit card debt, and
3. reasonably scale down their lifestyle to adapt to any reduction in income.

You're completely unable to save anything off a $60k paycheck in New York City, period, let alone $40k. That is, without living on cat food and cold cereal.

The federal poverty level in 2009 was $10,830.

Multiplied by 2.5, that's $27,075.

$27,075 is a far cry from $45k.

To put it simply, you have no idea what you're talking about. I grew up in New York and still live here. I'm also FROM a third-world country, so I know what poverty actually is.

My current household income is over $60k, but when it was less than that, my boyfriend and I still managed to live alone, pay our own bills, buy fancy electronics, go out to eat all the time (including, occasionally, to fancy restaurants), go on vacation, and SAVE MONEY. That was poverty? Really?

My step-father has lived in the city for about fifteen years, makes about $75k working as an engineer, and has managed to save literally hundreds of thousands of dollars in that time. He and my mom are looking to buy a house IN CASH.

Past performance != future performance.

That's not really applicable here, but nice try.

[motiontodismiss]

That's not really applicable here, but nice try.

Just because someone was able to doesn't mean one will be able to.

[dominkay]

That's not really applicable here, but nice try.

Just because someone was able to doesn't mean one will be able to.

The fact that you wouldn't be able to (or are too lazy or spoiled to) doesn't mean that no one (or even most people) wouldn't be able to.

[djgoldbe]

That's not really applicable here, but nice try.

Just because someone was able to doesn't mean one will be able to.

Actually, it does.

[motiontodismiss]

That's not really applicable here, but nice try.

Just because someone was able to doesn't mean one will be able to.

Actually, it does.

Actually, it doesn't.

[djgoldbe]

That's not really applicable here, but nice try.

Just because someone was able to doesn't mean one will be able to.

Actually, it does.

Actually, it doesn't.

The ability to live / save on a given salary in a given city (assuming family obligations / health expenses etc are equal, obviously) is a relatively reproducible and predictable phenomena - unlike financial or corporate economics - which is the origin of your misplaced platitude. If someone can live and save in NYC on a 60K salary, you can do it too within a great degree of accuracy. Sorry, you're wrong.

[Hiei]

lol at people trying to argue against the fact that 60K plus huge debt makes living in NYC very uncomfortable. It's essentially widely accepted (outside of this website) that NYC is astronomically expensive. I think I saw something about 1million a year in NYC is equal to about 200K a year in most other cities.

[keg411]

lol at people trying to argue against the fact that 60K plus huge debt makes living in NYC very uncomfortable. It's essentially widely accepted (outside of this website) that NYC is astronomically expensive. I think I saw something about 1million a year in NYC is equal to about 200K a year in most other cities.

Answer to this: People who work in NYC and don't make enough to live in Manhattan shouldn't live there. It's probably significantly less to live cheaply in either one of the other boroughs or NJ and commute. So you can do 60k fine as long as you don't live in NYC.

[im_blue]

lol at people trying to argue against the fact that 60K plus huge debt makes living in NYC very uncomfortable. It's essentially widely accepted (outside of this website) that NYC is astronomically expensive. I think I saw something about 1million a year in NYC is equal to about 200K a year in most other cities.

+1. The median personal income in Manhattan is about $50k. If you have $200k in loans at 6.8% over 30 years, that's $1300/month or $15,600/year, or $20,800 in pre-tax income. So you would need to earn about $71k just to live like the median person in Manhattan.

[djgoldbe]

lol at people trying to argue against the fact that 60K plus huge debt makes living in NYC very uncomfortable. It's essentially widely accepted (outside of this website) that NYC is astronomically expensive. I think I saw something about 1million a year in NYC is equal to about 200K a year in most other cities.

+1. The median personal income in Manhattan is about $50k. If you have $200k in loans at 6.8% over 30 years, that's $1300/month or $15,600/year, or $20,800 in pre-tax income. So you would need to earn about $71k just to live like the median person in Manhattan.

Well nobody said we are assuming 200k in loans. Even assuming that, with IBR (with 60K income) at 6.8% assuming single filing and no dependents, thats $550 a month which is $6600 a year. Also nobody is assuming you live in Manhattan. Factor in living in a different borough and IBR and/or less debt, and saying 60k is poverty level is more absurd.

[romothesavior]

Every time I see the title to this thread, I just think to myself:

ERROR. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

[Kohinoor]

Every time I see the title to this thread, I just think to myself:

ERROR. DOES NOT COMPUTE.

It always reminds me of this flawless moment.

[motiontodismiss]

The ability to live / save on a given salary in a given city (assuming family obligations / health expenses etc are equal, obviously) is a relatively reproducible and predictable phenomena - unlike financial or corporate economics - which is the origin of your misplaced platitude. If someone can live and save in NYC on a 60K salary, you can do it too within a great degree of accuracy. Sorry, you're wrong.

Health expenses are rising at three times the rate of inflation. Food costs are rising at a similar rate greater than inflation. See that's where you're wrong-CoL fluctuates, sometimes wildly (and almost always up, not down). As someone who's lived in NYC FOR THREE YEARS, it's not possible. I spent $15k a school year (=8 or 9 months) on CoL, not including housing (another $13k and lol at getting reasonable housing in NYC year round at that price), and I didn't have to pay for health insurance, utilities, dry cleaning, work clothes, OR make student loan payments. Or put 10% away in savings. Or save for retirement. Buy a place? No way, even if you could come up with the $100k you need to put 20% down on a STUDIO, just how do you expect to come up with another $750/month for property taxes and HOA?

If you're willing to take a $60k/yr job in NYC, by all means, be my guest. But don't assume it's a livable salary for everyone. I like a little more variety in my life than cat food and cold cereal.

[DGLitcH]

In that case, try Canada. McGill/U of Toronto are about $35k/yr Canadian, and Canadian biglaw pays $100k-ish (Toronto, ~$85k in Calgary). (American firms in Canada pay much more, i.e. Skadden Toronto at $140k).

Clearly you have no clue what you are talking about, based on the top 3 Canadian schools,
U of Toronto is about 28,000 CDN
MCGill is about 13,000,
Osgoode(York) is about 17,500
...a far cry from 35,000CDN...I must say though it is pretty difficult to get accepted in Canada (only 16 schools and a pretty large amount of applicants...Osgoode for example had over 3,000 applicant for 290 spots this past year). McGill on the other hand requires Bilingualism, so thats hard to crack into. Finally, U of Toronto, has 167 & 3.8 Medians, at that point u can probably crack t14 anyway. Proof that Canada is a hard place to get into law school lies in the fact that many applicants seeking a chance to become lawyers (like myself) end up sending most of their applications south.

Yeah the U of T requirement is too high, when you are at that level, might as well go down south and get into a T14 school.

[djgoldbe]

The ability to live / save on a given salary in a given city (assuming family obligations / health expenses etc are equal, obviously) is a relatively reproducible and predictable phenomena - unlike financial or corporate economics - which is the origin of your misplaced platitude. If someone can live and save in NYC on a 60K salary, you can do it too within a great degree of accuracy. Sorry, you're wrong.

Health expenses are rising at three times the rate of inflation. Food costs are rising at a similar rate greater than inflation. See that's where you're wrong-CoL fluctuates, sometimes wildly (and almost always up, not down). As someone who's lived in NYC FOR THREE YEARS, it's not possible. I spent $15k a school year (=8 or 9 months) on CoL, not including housing (another $13k and lol at getting reasonable housing in NYC year round at that price), and I didn't have to pay for health insurance, utilities, dry cleaning, work clothes, OR make student loan payments. Or put 10% away in savings. Or save for retirement. Buy a place? No way, even if you could come up with the $100k you need to put 20% down on a STUDIO, just how do you expect to come up with another $750/month for property taxes and HOA?

If you're willing to take a $60k/yr job in NYC, by all means, be my guest. But don't assume it's a livable salary for everyone. I like a little more variety in my life than cat food and cold cereal.

COL fluctuation is different from inflation. If one person (in the same year) can live on 60k a year in NYC, so can you. Your statement that past performance != future performance might be semantically true based on inflation, but thats a pretty stupid point to make (Hotdogs don't cost a nickel anymore). Any COL 'fluctuation' on an individual basis in an individual year is based on your personal choices. And I did not assume it was a 'livable' salary for you. Non-livable for you != poverty. I said it is not poverty. Kick and scream all you like about how you want to save money for your retirement and have 20% down to buy a place, but you are not in poverty. Period.

Edit: Also the fact that you think you need to spend 500k on a studio is somewhat telling. Assuming your talking ~550-600 sq feet your talking about 900 $/sq foot. The most expensive places in Manhattan are only going to be ~1200. You can find places for $650 a foot in Manhattan, and there are places in brooklyn for $450 a foot.

[goawaybee]

NY is expensive...CHI, LA, MIA, blah blah.

is the thread about COL related stuff or nonT14 schools with good employment prospects...not panning for gold type prospects. real life, doable opps.

You can get as survey based or formulaic as you would like. NY is very expensive. I don't care if you live in Qnz, BK, uptown, BX wherever commute in from LI, NJ or otherwise. It is an expensive adventure. The money you save by living outside of manhattan when compared to hours lost via commuting etc...sometimes it makes sense sometimes it doesn't.

A Shitbox apt. in any area costs an arm and a leg vs. most other places on planet earth. If you don't agree live in NYC making 75k a year for a while then move to a suburb in ATL or CLT and make 40k, you will have a similar quality of life. That is reality not speculation and some bullshit numbers being spit out of a computer.

Now depending on your needs/wants and how you medicate yourself through the process (shopping, booze, cocaine, scrips, buying cars) you need to throw it all on the scales and figure out what would be the best case scenario for you.