T-14 Christian Environment Forum

[dakatz]

i cant go to a law school that isn't near a good church

Why? I'm a person of faith and this sentiment seems weird even to me....

I agree. Faith is internal, and it goes with you wherever you go, regardless of whether or not you are in a church, let alone a "good" one.

And I absolutely 2nd those telling you to worry about your LSAT before you give a moment of thought to this matter.

[VA LawDog]

Even though I think this may be a flame, I'll bite:

Redeemer Pres is excellent, and not that far from NYU. If you choose UVA, there are churches on every corner.

If you truly are a person of faith and feel led into the area of law, remember to follow your calling - school. Because it is your "calling," this should be your primary focus. Everything else will get worked out. Don't know where to attend yet? Do what people of faith do: pray about it. Settle on the school first, then search for the church that you'll be temporarily attending for three years.

FWIW.

[CX1329]

If I pursue law it will be to glorify God.

You'll be sorely disappointed. If you're so inclined, then the practice of law really isn't for you. There's nothing godly in being engulfed by paperwork and worked to exhaustion if you work in biglaw, or representing unscrupulous plaintiffs or defendants in litigation. Plus, if you choose to practice Criminal Law, your faith and beliefs will be tested regardless of which side you pick. As a prosecutor, sometimes you'll be pressured to pursue unfair cases against people who really don't deserve to go to jail, or make inane deals with shady figures. As a lawyer, you'll obviously need to defend clients aggressively by all means possible, within the limits of the law and the Constitution.

I'd be hard-pressured to refer you to a single lawyer who has never had to go against his will or even his own sense of morals in order to bring home a decent paycheck at the end of the day, especially in an economy that doesn't really allow anybody to freely choose what they're going to do, apart from what area of law they wish to practice. Ultimately, as a lawyer, your primary goal will be to win cases, remember that.

[feeblemiles]

My $0.02 would be to visit the schools yourself before making your decision. One person's "good pastor" might not be yours. I can see how deciding where to ED could be impacted by something like this, but finding a group or a person you connect well with is also just going to take a bit of good luck (or Divine Providence).

And to echo what's already been said, get the LSAT taken care of first. With that said, it's not absurd to be thinking about this stuff early.

[IAFG]

If I pursue law it will be to glorify God.

You'll be sorely disappointed. If you're so inclined, then the practice of law really isn't for you. There's nothing godly in being engulfed by paperwork and worked to exhaustion if you work in biglaw, or representing unscrupulous plaintiffs or defendants in litigation. Plus, if you choose to practice Criminal Law, your faith and beliefs will be tested regardless of which side you pick. As a prosecutor, sometimes you'll be pressured to pursue unfair cases against people who really don't deserve to go to jail, or make inane deals with shady figures. As a lawyer, you'll obviously need to defend clients aggressively by all means possible, within the limits of the law and the Constitution.

I'd be hard-pressured to refer you to a single lawyer who has never had to go against his will or even his own sense of morals in order to bring home a decent paycheck at the end of the day, especially in an economy that doesn't really allow anybody to freely choose what they're going to do, apart from what area of law they wish to practice. Ultimately, as a lawyer, your primary goal will be to win cases, remember that.

There aren't many professions that won't test your faith and push your boundries on occasion. It doesn't mean you can't glorify God in your professional life.

[feeblemiles]

There aren't many professions that won't test your faith and push your boundries on occasion. It doesn't mean you can't glorify God in your professional life.

+1

[CX1329]

There aren't many professions that won't test your faith and push your boundries on occasion. It doesn't mean you can't glorify God in your professional life.

You're correct in saying that, I just don't want the OP to have any misconceptions regarding the legal profession and end up getting frustrated as a result. The message I'm trying to convey is that the legal profession isn't always a bed of roses. The OP came across as being the type of person whose reason for getting into law stems from an idealistic point of view on what the job of a lawyer is like. I may not be correct in presuming that, of course, but I just wanted to get that point across. In no way am I claiming religiousness and the practice of law to be mutually exclusive, as that would make me a hypocrite, considering I'm a Christian myself.

[09042014]

If I pursue law it will be to glorify God.

You'll be sorely disappointed. If you're so inclined, then the practice of law really isn't for you. There's nothing godly in being engulfed by paperwork and worked to exhaustion if you work in biglaw, or representing unscrupulous plaintiffs or defendants in litigation. Plus, if you choose to practice Criminal Law, your faith and beliefs will be tested regardless of which side you pick. As a prosecutor, sometimes you'll be pressured to pursue unfair cases against people who really don't deserve to go to jail, or make inane deals with shady figures. As a lawyer, you'll obviously need to defend clients aggressively by all means possible, within the limits of the law and the Constitution.

I'd be hard-pressured to refer you to a single lawyer who has never had to go against his will or even his own sense of morals in order to bring home a decent paycheck at the end of the day, especially in an economy that doesn't really allow anybody to freely choose what they're going to do, apart from what area of law they wish to practice. Ultimately, as a lawyer, your primary goal will be to win cases, remember that.

There aren't many professions that won't test your faith and push your boundries on occasion. It doesn't mean you can't glorify God in your professional life.

Because God knows you can't do it in your personal life.

[pjo]

In particular I was hoping there was a good church near U Chicago. State of Michigan has surprisingly few truly evangelical churches.
Why would it bother you if I posted on TLS? It doesnt exactly hurt anyone if I ask. Anyways...

OP, not sure if this helps but one of my good friends is from Wheaon IL, which has more chrisitan churches per capita than any other city in the U.S. (at least so she claims). The city is about an hour from U Chicago and 45min from Northwestern. I'm sort of tempted to believe that you'll be more likely to find a church that you like a little bit out of the city (like wheaton for example) but maybe thats just my "farmtown" bias showing.

[IAFG]

STFU DF.

[Jay-Electronica]

Well, not to be rude but this is pretty silly imo. I am a person of faith as well and I dont think you need a church to be faithful or to practice your faith. If it really means that much to you why dont you have your home church record the sunday sermons and send them to you?

[James Bond]

what else is out there that is a sick church?

[romothesavior]

In particular I was hoping there was a good church near U Chicago. State of Michigan has surprisingly few truly evangelical churches.
Why would it bother you if I posted on TLS? It doesnt exactly hurt anyone if I ask. Anyways...

OP, not sure if this helps but one of my good friends is from Wheaon IL, which has more chrisitan churches per capita than any other city in the U.S. (at least so she claims). The city is about an hour from U Chicago and 45min from Northwestern. I'm sort of tempted to believe that you'll be more likely to find a church that you like a little bit out of the city (like wheaton for example) but maybe thats just my "farmtown" bias showing.

Wheaton would be a great place for OP to find a church. It is probably about a 45 minute drive from the city, but it is full of like-minded people and ultra-Christian churches. I avoid Wheaton like the plague.

[DanInALionsDen]

If this isn't a flame, it should be. Your GPA is a 3.5 and you're worried that Chicago might not have a Christian enough environment, should you choose to attend. You would need around a 173 to have even a shot at Chicago. Moreover, the fact is that in the (rational) legal world, you're going to be surrounded by people who don't subscribe to the worldview that the earth is 4,500 years old, that man walked with dinosaurs, that dinosaurs died in the flood with Noah, etcetera (all assertions I've heard made by evangelical acquaintances of mine).

I understand wanting to find a school located near a church which aligns with your faith, but to choose a law school based on whether the institution itself is sympathetic to your religious worldview seems absurd. You're going to have to move outside of your comfort zone at some point, or else sacrifice a great deal and lead a very sheltered existence.

That said, why not consider BYU?

Full Disclosure: I'm Catholic.

[09042014]

If this isn't a flame, it should be. Your GPA is a 3.5 and you're worried that Chicago might not have a Christian enough environment, should you choose to attend. You would need around a 173 to have even a shot at Chicago. Moreover, the fact is that in the (rational) legal world, you're going to be surrounded by people who don't subscribe to the worldview that the earth is 4,500 years old, that man walked with dinosaurs, that dinosaurs died in the flood with Noah, etcetera (all assertions I've heard made by evangelical acquaintances of mine).

I understand wanting to find a school located near a church which aligns with your faith, but to choose a law school based on whether the institution itself is sympathetic to your religious worldview seems absurd. You're going to have to move outside of your comfort zone at some point, or else sacrifice a great deal and lead a very sheltered existence.

That said, why not consider BYU?

Full Disclosure: I'm Catholic.

Because Fundies hate Mormons. Try Pepperdine. It's the most respected fundie school out there.

[AngryAvocado]

If this isn't a flame, it should be. Your GPA is a 3.5 and you're worried that Chicago might not have a Christian enough environment, should you choose to attend. You would need around a 173 to have even a shot at Chicago.

She has God on her side, man. That's gotta be worth at least a few LSAT points.

[DanInALionsDen]

If this isn't a flame, it should be. Your GPA is a 3.5 and you're worried that Chicago might not have a Christian enough environment, should you choose to attend. You would need around a 173 to have even a shot at Chicago. Moreover, the fact is that in the (rational) legal world, you're going to be surrounded by people who don't subscribe to the worldview that the earth is 4,500 years old, that man walked with dinosaurs, that dinosaurs died in the flood with Noah, etcetera (all assertions I've heard made by evangelical acquaintances of mine).

I understand wanting to find a school located near a church which aligns with your faith, but to choose a law school based on whether the institution itself is sympathetic to your religious worldview seems absurd. You're going to have to move outside of your comfort zone at some point, or else sacrifice a great deal and lead a very sheltered existence.

That said, why not consider BYU?

Full Disclosure: I'm Catholic.

Because Fundies hate Mormons. Try Pepperdine. It's the most respected fundie school out there.

Haha. This is true. I guess the idea that Native Americans were a lost tribe of Israelites is just too out there for fundamentalists.

[Bankhead]

I think you guys are missing the OP's point. It's not the religious worship per se, it's the sense of community that the OP is looking for. Hence the "environment" in title of the thread. Like for example, some people want to go to school in a small town, because they think they can thrive in that type of environment better than a large city.

[TheBigMediocre]

I think you guys are missing the OP's point. It's not the religious worship per se, it's the sense of community that the OP is looking for. Hence the "environment" in title of the thread. Like for example, some people want to go to school in a small town, because they think they can thrive in that type of environment better than a large city.

Give me a bar like Cheers or a coffee shop like Central Perk for this.

[DanInALionsDen]

I think you guys are missing the OP's point. It's not the religious worship per se, it's the sense of community that the OP is looking for. Hence the "environment" in title of the thread. Like for example, some people want to go to school in a small town, because they think they can thrive in that type of environment better than a large city.

It seems to me like the OP is looking to go to a school where her peers won't challenge her religious worldview, which is not quite the same as wanting to go to school in a small town. The latter is an atmospheric condition dealing mostly with the infrastructure of a geographic area, while the former is a dogmatic condition dealing with what people at a given location actually believe.

[bk1]

I think you guys are missing the OP's point. It's not the religious worship per se, it's the sense of community that the OP is looking for. Hence the "environment" in title of the thread. Like for example, some people want to go to school in a small town, because they think they can thrive in that type of environment better than a large city.

While yes this is true if just given the first post, in light of the following it is harder to draw such a conclusion that it is merely "environment."

It's also true that some schools have a much stronger anti-christian atmosphere than others and I would like to avoid that because my faith is the most important thing in my life. If I pursue law it will be to glorify God.

As to this, what "anti-Christian" atmosphere are you referring to? Law schools are, for the most part, secular and will not be including any sort of theist mentality in the classroom. I doubt that there will be any out-and-out hatred of Christians at any school you go to, especially not in an institutionalized form. If anything, you will likely find an anti-Christian mentality among students more than anything else. I don't think that mentality is something that exists at the school and since it is more a function of the students who are at a school at a particular point in time, it is hard to categorically label a school as "anti-Christian" when the entire student body will be replaced with new ones by 3 years time and any sort of anti-Christian sentiment is a creation of the students and not the school.

If you truly want a law school that combines the Bible and the law, try Regent.

[Mickey Quicknumbers]

OP: Should you get into Columbia, NYU, or Fordham, Tim Keller's Redeemer Presbyterian church in New York City is considered one of the best Churches in the world today.

If you end up in around Emory's numbers: Atlanta is probably the city who's churches are flourishing the most, as well as the hosting the Passion conference, which is easily the young Christian mecca for our generation. --LinkRemoved--

But I will mirror the sentiments of other people on here. A lot of churches are diamonds in the rough that you'll have no way of knowing how great they are without you moving to the city first and shopping around for one that fits you best.

[Mr. Pablo]

I think you guys are missing the OP's point. It's not the religious worship per se, it's the sense of community that the OP is looking for. Hence the "environment" in title of the thread. Like for example, some people want to go to school in a small town, because they think they can thrive in that type of environment better than a large city.

While yes this is true if just given the first post, in light of the following it is harder to draw such a conclusion that it is merely "environment."

It's also true that some schools have a much stronger anti-christian atmosphere than others and I would like to avoid that because my faith is the most important thing in my life. If I pursue law it will be to glorify God.

As to this, what "anti-Christian" atmosphere are you referring to? Law schools are, for the most part, secular and will not be including any sort of theist mentality in the classroom. I doubt that there will be any out-and-out hatred of Christians at any school you go to, especially not in an institutionalized form. If anything, you will likely find an anti-Christian mentality among students more than anything else. I don't think that mentality is something that exists at the school and since it is more a function of the students who are at a school at a particular point in time, it is hard to categorically label a school as "anti-Christian" when the entire student body will be replaced with new ones by 3 years time and any sort of anti-Christian sentiment is a creation of the students and not the school.

If you truly want a law school that combines the Bible and the law, try Regent.

This is the thing that I don't understand. Not that the OP is decidedly in this camp, but why do Christians feel so persecuted in the USA? They are an overwhelming majority of the citizens, politicians bend over backwards for them, and their voice as a whole determines a lot of public policy. Why is it that there is an oppression complex amongst the majority?

[bk1]

This is the thing that I don't understand. Not that the OP is decidedly in this camp, but why do Christians feel so persecuted in the USA? They are an overwhelming majority of the citizens, politicians bend over backwards for them, and their voice as a whole determines a lot of public policy. Why is it that there is an oppression complex amongst the majority?

Because schools teach evolution. Except Texas.

[romothesavior]

This is the thing that I don't understand. Not that the OP is decidedly in this camp, but why do Christians feel so persecuted in the USA? They are an overwhelming majority of the citizens, politicians bend over backwards for them, and their voice as a whole determines a lot of public policy. Why is it that there is an oppression complex amongst the majority?

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

OP, you are going to find fellow Christians at any school in the T14. You are going to be in the religious majority in any school in the T14. Will everyone be a fundie? (thank you DF for that word) No, you'll have more variety... I doubt law schools are full of hardcore Christians. But you will not be in a hostile environment, and you will be able to find like-minded people to form your desired community.