Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

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b.j.
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby b.j. » Mon May 24, 2010 11:12 pm

I don't think there's any "perhaps" about it. Retake the LSAT. Get a better score. Reapply next year.


The current probability of horrible failure is just far too great to stomach. Maybe $200k (or even $60k) sounds manageable on paper (or however you'd like to rationalize it), but it becomes an entirely different story when you're faced with climbing that mountain and you don't have an effective means (read: a decent job) to do so.

If you're not willing to retake the test because you don't enjoy it/don't feel like it/have other things to do, then this is not the career path for you. In other words, if you can't get motivated to study for and redo a test that will dramatically alter the rest of your life, how will you gather the willpower to study for and do well on finals?[/quote]

Oh, I know you're right on that account. I'm just letting reality set in.

Honestly, right now, if the thing with my current company doesn't work out, I'm sort of hoping that one of the remaining part time schools accepts me. That way, I can work in some way during school and thus not graduate with nearly as much debt.

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Always Credited
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Always Credited » Mon May 24, 2010 11:15 pm

The truth is staring you right in the face, you're simply refusing to acknowledge it. Doing anything other than retaking and reapplying will set your life on a needlessly difficult trajectory; a trajectory that can be easily and voluntarily avoided right now.

rockstar4488
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby rockstar4488 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:23 pm

I think IBR makes this decision feasible. It isnt a popular one on TLS but I say go for it.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon May 24, 2010 11:25 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:I think IBR makes this decision feasible. It isnt a popular one on TLS but I say go for it.



If and only if he has $0 in UG debt. If that isn't the case then your post should be deleted.

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Always Credited
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Always Credited » Mon May 24, 2010 11:26 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:I think IBR makes this decision feasible. It isnt a popular one on TLS but I say go for it.


Its necessary to have an IBR-activating job in order to qualify for the loan forgiveness. I believe the OP, after spending 3 years of his life earning a JD, would prefer that job to be legal in nature rather than being forced into the local police department or post office.

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webbylu87
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby webbylu87 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:29 pm

Always Credited wrote:
rockstar4488 wrote:I think IBR makes this decision feasible. It isnt a popular one on TLS but I say go for it.


Its necessary to have an IBR-activating job in order to qualify for the loan forgiveness. I believe the OP, after spending 3 years of his life earning a JD, would prefer that job to be legal in nature rather than being forced into the local police department or post office.


IBR is available to everyone not just those in PI/PS. Those earning $80k could qualify for IBR as long as they have enough debt to qualify. PSLF however, is based on where you work (either gov't work or for a 501(c)3).

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon May 24, 2010 11:32 pm

This is true but its 15% of your discretionary spending. That's quite a chunk. Depending on his other debts, that could still be a crippling amount.

rockstar4488
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby rockstar4488 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:34 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:
rockstar4488 wrote:I think IBR makes this decision feasible. It isnt a popular one on TLS but I say go for it.



If and only if he has $0 in UG debt. If that isn't the case then your post should be deleted.



Yeah, still going to disagree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the worst case scenario with IBR is that your salary is ~10% lower for 25 yeras.

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webbylu87
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby webbylu87 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:34 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:I think IBR makes this decision feasible. It isnt a popular one on TLS but I say go for it.


There's no doubt IBR is an option (and frankly will be one I will likely rely on) but it shouldn't be used to justify a poor financial and professional decision. If I got the impression the OP had gone into this process fully informed and really wanted to attend this T2 I might be inclined to agree. But the OP doesn't seem to have properly researched his/her options and isn't thrilled with this school. Don't go to a school that you don't absolutely love at this price (especially in such a crowded market). I wouldn't recommend that for anyone looking at a T1 school either.

Retake the LSAT and reapply. I took a year off because I wasn't happy with my options last year and it was the best decision I could have made.

...But what do I know. I'm only an 0L.

b.j.
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby b.j. » Mon May 24, 2010 11:35 pm

Always Credited wrote:The truth is staring you right in the face, you're simply refusing to acknowledge it. Doing anything other than retaking and reapplying will set your life on a needlessly difficult trajectory; a trajectory that can be easily and voluntarily avoided right now.


Yes.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon May 24, 2010 11:37 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:
rockstar4488 wrote:I think IBR makes this decision feasible. It isnt a popular one on TLS but I say go for it.



If and only if he has $0 in UG debt. If that isn't the case then your post should be deleted.



Yeah, still going to disagree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the worst case scenario with IBR is that your salary is ~10% lower for 25 yeras.



Partially true. If he does public interest work then yes its 10%. However, if he goes private practice then its 15%. That's 5% at our age is huge. Especially if you add on wife (starting a life together can add up and you don't want to saddle some poor girl down with your debt), kids, house or whatever the hell else it is that costs people an ass-load of money.

rockstar4488
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby rockstar4488 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:39 pm

We're interpreting IBR differently. It is 15% of your income above 150% of the poverty rate. It essentially only surpasses 10% when you're making six digits. Which, I belive would mean OP is very far from a worst case scenario, making this argument moot.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon May 24, 2010 11:41 pm

That could be. I was told by a fin-aid guy that it depended on what sector of law you were working in. I could be wrong.

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webbylu87
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby webbylu87 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:43 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:We're interpreting IBR differently. It is 15% of your income above 150% of the poverty rate. It essentially only surpasses 10% when you're making six digits. Which, I belive would mean OP is very far from a worst case scenario, making this argument moot.


Yes, IBR would make attending this school plausible for the OP but this does not mean it is a wise decision.

rockstar4488
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby rockstar4488 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:46 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:That could be. I was told by a fin-aid guy that it depended on what sector of law you were working in. I could be wrong.


As I understand it, the sector matters as far as when your debt is completely forgiven. 10 years in public interest vs. 25 in any sector.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon May 24, 2010 11:47 pm

If what he says is correct, then 10% of your income for 25 years...that can be dealt with. I still don't find the decision wise...but now its just not suicidal.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Mon May 24, 2010 11:47 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:That could be. I was told by a fin-aid guy that it depended on what sector of law you were working in. I could be wrong.


As I understand it, the sector matters as far as when your debt is completely forgiven. 10 years in public interest vs. 25 in any sector.



OHHHHHHHHHHH....awesome. Wow...that's not horrible then.

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webbylu87
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby webbylu87 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:49 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:That could be. I was told by a fin-aid guy that it depended on what sector of law you were working in. I could be wrong.


As I understand it, the sector matters as far as when your debt is completely forgiven. 10 years in public interest vs. 25 in any sector.


This. Also, look at the links below for info on PSLF and IBR:

IBR: http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attac ... _FINAL.pdf
PSLF: http://studentaid.ed.gov/students/attac ... 2%2010.pdf

b.j.
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby b.j. » Mon May 24, 2010 11:50 pm

rockstar4488 wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:That could be. I was told by a fin-aid guy that it depended on what sector of law you were working in. I could be wrong.


As I understand it, the sector matters as far as when your debt is completely forgiven. 10 years in public interest vs. 25 in any sector.


Just curious, does public interest mean any sort of non-private job, like working at the FTC or the SEC, or something much smaller in scale?

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webbylu87
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby webbylu87 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:53 pm

b.j. wrote:
rockstar4488 wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:That could be. I was told by a fin-aid guy that it depended on what sector of law you were working in. I could be wrong.


As I understand it, the sector matters as far as when your debt is completely forgiven. 10 years in public interest vs. 25 in any sector.


Just curious, does public interest mean any sort of non-private job, like working at the FTC or the SEC, or something much smaller in scale?


Read the links.

rockstar4488
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby rockstar4488 » Mon May 24, 2010 11:55 pm

As for the OP's decision to attend at full cost, I think it is likely that his earning potential with a JD - 10% is greater than his prior earning potential. This doesn't include intangible benefits like prestige or intellectual satisfaction. I know the prevailing wisdom has been to avoid a large (200k) amount of student debt, as it was often financial suicide. I believe this needs to be completely re-examined due to IBR. As they say, the truth is in the numbers.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Tue May 25, 2010 12:11 am

I think I'm missing something.
The way I read this is he;s still paying 15% of his AGI every month.

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General Tso
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby General Tso » Tue May 25, 2010 12:12 am

b.j. wrote:
rockstar4488 wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:That could be. I was told by a fin-aid guy that it depended on what sector of law you were working in. I could be wrong.


As I understand it, the sector matters as far as when your debt is completely forgiven. 10 years in public interest vs. 25 in any sector.


Just curious, does public interest mean any sort of non-private job, like working at the FTC or the SEC, or something much smaller in scale?


Those federal agency positions are really competitive. It'll be hard to land out of a T2.

There are plenty of T2's that are very generous with scholarship money. Invest some time and money in LSAT prep and you will be much better off in the long run.

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Tue May 25, 2010 12:16 am

"The IBR monthly payment amount is based on your annual Adjusted Gross Income (AGI) and family
size. Specifically, the maximum annual amount you are required to repay under IBR during any period
when you have a “partial financial hardship” (as discussed in Q&A #4 above) is 15 percent of the
difference between your AGI and 150 percent of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services’
(HHS) Poverty Guideline amount for your family size. This annual repayment amount is then divided by
12 to determine your monthly IBR repayment amount.

For example, 150 percent of the 2009 HHS poverty guideline amount for a family of three is $27,465. If
your AGI was $40,000, the difference would be $12,535. Fifteen percent of that is $1,880; dividing this amount by 12 results in a monthly IBR payment amount of $157."

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Joe Biden
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Re: Is Anyone Paying Sticker for a T2 School?

Postby Joe Biden » Tue May 25, 2010 12:17 am

Sticker at Rutgers is still pretty cheap if you are instate. This is almost the equivalent of getting 50% from Syracuse, Seton Hall, Villanova, etc.




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