Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

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Beware
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Beware » Sun May 23, 2010 10:42 am

I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.

Miracle
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Miracle » Sun May 23, 2010 11:16 am

Beware wrote:I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.


If you're thinking "twice" about going to law school then what are you doing here.

On the other hand, I'm having hard time understanding your point given the fact that just because you graduate from a T14 does not guarantee you a job, or for that matter a job that pays 160+, and that’s been since, well… forever.

There is a lot that goes in to the hiring process. It’s not always about a diploma and a grade. There is also personalities that are involved, so a diploma from T14 does not guarantee you a job let alone a job that pays 160+

Beware
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Beware » Sun May 23, 2010 11:21 am

Miracle wrote:
Beware wrote:I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.


If you're thinking "twice" about going to law school then what are you doing here.

On the other hand, I'm having hard time understanding your point given the fact that just because you graduate from a T14 does not guarantee you a job, or for that matter a job that pays 160+, and that’s been since, well… forever.

There is a lot that goes in to the hiring process. It’s not always about a diploma and a grade. There is also personalities that are involved, so a diploma from T14 does not guarantee you a job let alone a job that pays 160+


I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.

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beef wellington
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby beef wellington » Sun May 23, 2010 11:22 am

Beware wrote:
Miracle wrote:
Beware wrote:I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.


If you're thinking "twice" about going to law school then what are you doing here.

On the other hand, I'm having hard time understanding your point given the fact that just because you graduate from a T14 does not guarantee you a job, or for that matter a job that pays 160+, and that’s been since, well… forever.

There is a lot that goes in to the hiring process. It’s not always about a diploma and a grade. There is also personalities that are involved, so a diploma from T14 does not guarantee you a job let alone a job that pays 160+


I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.

Where'd you graduate from?

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Kim617
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Kim617 » Sun May 23, 2010 11:33 am

NoleinNY wrote:
A'nold wrote:Uh, trust me, that was no typo. It is a JDU troll that wants to grace us with his infinite wisdom on how the law field, unlike every other field, is saturated and jobs are hard to find and that we should all become plummers or garbage men.



To be fair, my high school econ teacher claimed that garbage collectors in large metros can make bank with adequate time on the job...

It's not a claim. NYC garbage men do make bank, especially with what they get paid for overtime. It's a very solid career, though maybe not glamorous :D

Beware
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Beware » Sun May 23, 2010 11:34 am

beef wellington wrote:
Beware wrote:
Miracle wrote:
Beware wrote:I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.


If you're thinking "twice" about going to law school then what are you doing here.

On the other hand, I'm having hard time understanding your point given the fact that just because you graduate from a T14 does not guarantee you a job, or for that matter a job that pays 160+, and that’s been since, well… forever.

There is a lot that goes in to the hiring process. It’s not always about a diploma and a grade. There is also personalities that are involved, so a diploma from T14 does not guarantee you a job let alone a job that pays 160+


I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.

Where'd you graduate from?


T14.

miamiman
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby miamiman » Sun May 23, 2010 11:35 am

Beware wrote:quote]

I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.


Dispel what illusions? no one on this board is delusional enough to harbor any presumption that they must necessarily make 160k. If kids going to Georgetown or, for that matter, any T14 outside of HYS aren't aware of the grim market realities before them, they've wilfully shut their eyes because that information has been made abundantly available here, on ATL, and in the mainstream. It's hard, in fact, to avoid it.

Going onto the c/o 2013 GULC board and ripping future 1Ls is similar to my going into a Burger King only to shun the fat dude eating the whopper. I'm fairly certain the person is aware that whoppers are hazardous to his health much as I imagine -- and am fairly certain -- GULC c/o 2013ers know that GULC has not been an exceptionally easy place to land a job.

Beware
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Beware » Sun May 23, 2010 11:45 am

miamiman wrote:
Beware wrote:quote]

I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.


Dispel what illusions? no one on this board is delusional enough to harbor any presumption that they must necessarily make 160k. If kids going to Georgetown or, for that matter, any T14 outside of HYS aren't aware of the grim market realities before them, they've wilfully shut their eyes because that information has been made abundantly available here, on ATL, and in the mainstream. It's hard, in fact, to avoid it.

Going onto the c/o 2013 GULC board and ripping future 1Ls is similar to my going into a Burger King only to shun the fat dude eating the whopper. I'm fairly certain the person is aware that whoppers are hazardous to his health much as I imagine -- and am fairly certain -- GULC c/o 2013ers know that GULC has not been an exceptionally easy place to land a job.


Ok. For the last time: it's not about that $160,000 a year job. I've already posted about the employment prospects of graduating students. If you don't believe me, fine.

miamiman
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby miamiman » Sun May 23, 2010 11:47 am

Dude, I do believe you. We all believe you because, well, what you're saying is the truth. If people aren't aware that law school is a huge gamble right now, they've put their heads in the sand. TLS, if anything, has belabored this point.

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beef wellington
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby beef wellington » Sun May 23, 2010 11:48 am

Beware wrote:
miamiman wrote:
Beware wrote:quote]

I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.


Dispel what illusions? no one on this board is delusional enough to harbor any presumption that they must necessarily make 160k. If kids going to Georgetown or, for that matter, any T14 outside of HYS aren't aware of the grim market realities before them, they've wilfully shut their eyes because that information has been made abundantly available here, on ATL, and in the mainstream. It's hard, in fact, to avoid it.

Going onto the c/o 2013 GULC board and ripping future 1Ls is similar to my going into a Burger King only to shun the fat dude eating the whopper. I'm fairly certain the person is aware that whoppers are hazardous to his health much as I imagine -- and am fairly certain -- GULC c/o 2013ers know that GULC has not been an exceptionally easy place to land a job.


Ok. For the last time: it's not about that $160,000 a year job. I've already posted about the employment prospects of graduating students. If you don't believe me, fine.

Dude, we believe you. It's not exactly earth-shattering news.

dk8
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby dk8 » Sun May 23, 2010 11:50 am

You posted an anecdote from NPR. I could go grab 20 students that snagged biglaw from the doomed 2011 class and put them on the radio. Would this prove that everything is all good at GULC?

I am not in any way disputing the shittiness of the legal market or the very real possibility that you can get fucked at a T14. But please, stop acting like you are providing some valuable service by dropping into threads with your rock solid anecdotes.

Edit: This was directed at Beware not the OP.

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soundgardener
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby soundgardener » Sun May 23, 2010 12:02 pm

So sorry that their dreams of working in "international arbitration" and "world trade" straight out of law school did not come to fruition.

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Matthies
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Matthies » Sun May 23, 2010 12:17 pm

I dunno seems to me focusing all of ones energies on the bad economy, the desperate situation for other law grads, the lack of offers for T14 grades from the school, the bleak outlook for big law hiring is less productive for actually getting a job for oneself then focusing ones energies on finding a job for themselves, being creative about their personal job search and relying on themselves to make things happen. Of course the former, is much, much easier though.

Miracle
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Miracle » Sun May 23, 2010 12:30 pm

Beware wrote:
Miracle wrote:
Beware wrote:I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.


If you're thinking "twice" about going to law school then what are you doing here.

On the other hand, I'm having hard time understanding your point given the fact that just because you graduate from a T14 does not guarantee you a job, or for that matter a job that pays 160+, and that’s been since, well… forever.

There is a lot that goes in to the hiring process. It’s not always about a diploma and a grade. There is also personalities that are involved, so a diploma from T14 does not guarantee you a job let alone a job that pays 160+


I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.



That’s is exactly what your posts indicate. I graduated from a T14 and don’t have a 160K job-now let me go and cry. It’s the economy!

Think about it in this way. How many T14 law schools didn’t provide a single interview for their graduates. None-correct. They must of provided at least one-couple in many cases a lot more than that, therefore if you’re interviewing with a law firm or 4-5 law firms and do not get a single call back, it’s no longer the economy that its at fault, it’s you. A diploma from T14 will get you a foot in the door, which in this case did, but it will not get you a job, which in this case it didn’t.

Sometimes you have to be honest and realistic with yourself, if you’re not born to do something, you’re just not born to do something.

I would love to act alongside of George Clooney, but am I-no! I mean I can go to a film academy but is that going to guarantee me a role next to George Clooney-100% not.

Beware
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Beware » Sun May 23, 2010 12:33 pm

Miracle wrote:
Beware wrote:
Miracle wrote:
Beware wrote:I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.


If you're thinking "twice" about going to law school then what are you doing here.

On the other hand, I'm having hard time understanding your point given the fact that just because you graduate from a T14 does not guarantee you a job, or for that matter a job that pays 160+, and that’s been since, well… forever.

There is a lot that goes in to the hiring process. It’s not always about a diploma and a grade. There is also personalities that are involved, so a diploma from T14 does not guarantee you a job let alone a job that pays 160+


I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.



That’s is exactly what your posts indicate. I graduated from a T14 and don’t have a 160K job-now let me go and cry. It’s the economy!

Think about it in this way. How many T14 law schools didn’t provide a single interview for their graduates. None-correct. They must of provided at least one-couple in many cases a lot more than that, therefore if you’re interviewing with a law firm or 4-5 law firms and do not get a single call back, it’s no longer the economy that its at fault, it’s you. A diploma from T14 will get you a foot in the door, which in this case did, but it will not get you a job, which in this case it didn’t.

Sometimes you have to be honest and realistic with yourself, if you’re not born to do something, you’re just not born to do something.

I would love to act alongside of George Clooney, but am I-no! I mean I can go to a film academy but is that going to guarantee me a role next to George Clooney-100% not.


Yep. Right. That's it.

februaryftw
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby februaryftw » Sun May 23, 2010 12:47 pm


Yep. Right. That's it.


In fairness, your reply kind of underscores his point.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby AngryAvocado » Sun May 23, 2010 12:49 pm

Miracle wrote:
Beware wrote:
Miracle wrote:
Beware wrote:I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.


If you're thinking "twice" about going to law school then what are you doing here.

On the other hand, I'm having hard time understanding your point given the fact that just because you graduate from a T14 does not guarantee you a job, or for that matter a job that pays 160+, and that’s been since, well… forever.

There is a lot that goes in to the hiring process. It’s not always about a diploma and a grade. There is also personalities that are involved, so a diploma from T14 does not guarantee you a job let alone a job that pays 160+


I'm here because I already graduated and want to dispel illusions.

No law degree guarantees you a job. However, graduating from a T14 after paying $150,000 to attend would normally make it very likely that you get a job paying at least $55,000 a year (and not as a temp). Now it would be hard even getting such a job, even for T14ers. Witness that out of the five people NPR interviewed, only two had job offers. This is even when you take into consideration the fact that people are loath to discuss their employment failures, let alone on National Public Radio.

Of course there is a lot that goes into the hiring process. That has always been the case. I don't see how that changes the fact that the chances of getting an average grad getting a decent job are very slim.



That’s is exactly what your posts indicate. I graduated from a T14 and don’t have a 160K job-now let me go and cry. It’s the economy!

Think about it in this way. How many T14 law schools didn’t provide a single interview for their graduates. None-correct. They must of provided at least one-couple in many cases a lot more than that, therefore if you’re interviewing with a law firm or 4-5 law firms and do not get a single call back, it’s no longer the economy that its at fault, it’s you. A diploma from T14 will get you a foot in the door, which in this case did, but it will not get you a job, which in this case it didn’t.

Sometimes you have to be honest and realistic with yourself, if you’re not born to do something, you’re just not born to do something.

I would love to act alongside of George Clooney, but am I-no! I mean I can go to a film academy but is that going to guarantee me a role next to George Clooney-100% not.


Wow. Keep up with that sort of naive attitude and you'll soon be finding out that you weren't "born for law" either. :roll:

Miracle
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Miracle » Sun May 23, 2010 12:53 pm

How am I being naive when you're the one that belives you should be practicing big law just because you graduated from T14?

castanea
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby castanea » Sun May 23, 2010 1:12 pm

Beware wrote:I would think twice about going to law school. 0Ls should shut up and listen to those who have more experience. Don't make your decision based on the glossy brochures that law schools send. Talk to young graduates and 3Ls. The job situation is horrible. That is an undeniable fact.

It is not surprising that Georgetown grads are doing shitty. Even many Ivy grads are having trouble. This is no joke. It's brutal out there.


We get it. It's not a risk free investment. Law school definitely doesn't guarantee an 160k job, nor does it even guarantee finding legal employment.
But frankly, coming on here and posting about how horrible it is out there, when it's widely known, comes off as misanthropic.
It really is a bad situation for people graduating in the last two years. But it really isn't any worse than recent college grads faced for other highly sought after careers (banking, consulting, etc.). Even the comments on NPR to which you pointed everyone paint a depressing picture of employment for architects. Exactly what career should people look at?
Those starting law school next year are optimistic about the economy turning around and job prospects getting better. Considering all the talk about a "V" shaped recovery its probably not that unreasonable.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby AngryAvocado » Sun May 23, 2010 1:50 pm

Miracle wrote:How am I being naive when you're the one that belives you should be practicing big law just because you graduated from T14?


I don't believe that, and neither does Beware. Reread his post. The most he said was that attending a T14 normally made it very likely that you would at least get a job paying 55k. I don't see what's so outrageous or entitled about that.

What makes you naive is your belief that, because someone wasn't able to get biglaw in the worst legal market in decades, they weren't "born" for it. You seem to think that because students at top schools get to interview (gasp) with firms, their "foot is in the door" and that it's somehow their opportunity to lose. Right. Except that, even assuming you end up with decent grades, 2 of those "4-5 firms" GULC hooks you up with might not even being hiring (unbeknownst to you or anyone outside the firm), 2 more that would have normally been targets for your GPA might have already eliminated you based on grades, and the last one (normally a safety) would have been a solid shot except for the fact that you're competing with 3 kids from the law review who are desperate to lock up something. All of a sudden those 4-5 interviews altogether equal a single outside shot at an offer, and guess what? It had nothing to do with your interviewing skills. Three years ago, your grades would have made you a shoe-in at 2-3 of these places, but apparently you just weren't "born" for law in this economy.

And, while Beware might be belaboring a point that's already well-documented on these boards, apparently there are still people like yourself out there who (while not stupid enough to think biglaw is guaranteed) are still naive enough to think that they'll have their "foot in the door" merely by attending a T-14. You better hope that your 600+ classmates are banking on that too, because that sounds eerily like the mindset of a soon-to-be unemployed 3L.

Miracle
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby Miracle » Sun May 23, 2010 4:36 pm

AngryAvocado wrote:
Miracle wrote:How am I being naive when you're the one that belives you should be practicing big law just because you graduated from T14?


I don't believe that, and neither does Beware. Reread his post. The most he said was that attending a T14 normally made it very likely that you would at least get a job paying 55k. I don't see what's so outrageous or entitled about that.

What makes you naive is your belief that, because someone wasn't able to get biglaw in the worst legal market in decades, they weren't "born" for it. You seem to think that because students at top schools get to interview (gasp) with firms, their "foot is in the door" and that it's somehow their opportunity to lose. Right. Except that, even assuming you end up with decent grades, 2 of those "4-5 firms" GULC hooks you up with might not even being hiring (unbeknownst to you or anyone outside the firm), 2 more that would have normally been targets for your GPA might have already eliminated you based on grades, and the last one (normally a safety) would have been a solid shot except for the fact that you're competing with 3 kids from the law review who are desperate to lock up something. All of a sudden those 4-5 interviews altogether equal a single outside shot at an offer, and guess what? It had nothing to do with your interviewing skills. Three years ago, your grades would have made you a shoe-in at 2-3 of these places, but apparently you just weren't "born" for law in this economy.

And, while Beware might be belaboring a point that's already well-documented on these boards, apparently there are still people like yourself out there who (while not stupid enough to think biglaw is guaranteed) are still naive enough to think that they'll have their "foot in the door" merely by attending a T-14. You better hope that your 600+ classmates are banking on that too, because that sounds eerily like the mindset of a soon-to-be unemployed 3L.




Clearly you’re taking this out of context, and to the extreme just like “beware”

According to “beware” the world is ending-legal market fell of the cliff.

"yes" the legal market is suffering but so is any other market. Why don’t you try and get a job in banking, in finance etc. There is not a single market out there that did not take a hit, however at the same time the world is not ending. Take a deep breath. By attending T14 school you have more opportunities and a chance at big law, and that’s why I said by attending T14 you have “a foot in the door”. If you believe otherwise then why didn't you/don’t you settle for T3 school.

No one said anything about not getting a call back from a firm that did not hire anyone. I’m sure you’ll have friends at the school, and If all of them are getting jobs and you’re not, or received a callback from a firm that you both interviewed at you should start asking yourself if there is anything that you’re doing wrong/not doing at all.

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AngryAvocado
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby AngryAvocado » Sun May 23, 2010 6:05 pm

Miracle wrote:
AngryAvocado wrote:
Miracle wrote:How am I being naive when you're the one that belives you should be practicing big law just because you graduated from T14?


I don't believe that, and neither does Beware. Reread his post. The most he said was that attending a T14 normally made it very likely that you would at least get a job paying 55k. I don't see what's so outrageous or entitled about that.

What makes you naive is your belief that, because someone wasn't able to get biglaw in the worst legal market in decades, they weren't "born" for it. You seem to think that because students at top schools get to interview (gasp) with firms, their "foot is in the door" and that it's somehow their opportunity to lose. Right. Except that, even assuming you end up with decent grades, 2 of those "4-5 firms" GULC hooks you up with might not even being hiring (unbeknownst to you or anyone outside the firm), 2 more that would have normally been targets for your GPA might have already eliminated you based on grades, and the last one (normally a safety) would have been a solid shot except for the fact that you're competing with 3 kids from the law review who are desperate to lock up something. All of a sudden those 4-5 interviews altogether equal a single outside shot at an offer, and guess what? It had nothing to do with your interviewing skills. Three years ago, your grades would have made you a shoe-in at 2-3 of these places, but apparently you just weren't "born" for law in this economy.

And, while Beware might be belaboring a point that's already well-documented on these boards, apparently there are still people like yourself out there who (while not stupid enough to think biglaw is guaranteed) are still naive enough to think that they'll have their "foot in the door" merely by attending a T-14. You better hope that your 600+ classmates are banking on that too, because that sounds eerily like the mindset of a soon-to-be unemployed 3L.




Clearly you’re taking this out of context, and to the extreme just like “beware”

According to “beware” the world is ending-legal market fell of the cliff.

"yes" the legal market is suffering but so is any other market. Why don’t you try and get a job in banking, in finance etc. There is not a single market out there that did not take a hit, however at the same time the world is not ending. Take a deep breath. By attending T14 school you have more opportunities and a chance at big law, and that’s why I said by attending T14 you have “a foot in the door”. If you believe otherwise then why didn't you/don’t you settle for T3 school.

No one said anything about not getting a call back from a firm that did not hire anyone. I’m sure you’ll have friends at the school, and If all of them are getting jobs and you’re not, or received a callback from a firm that you both interviewed at you should start asking yourself if there is anything that you’re doing wrong/not doing at all.


I'm not saying the legal market is ending, nor am I saying that people shouldn't go to law school (I am an 0L about to pay sticker, after all). I just took issue with the idea that people have only themselves to blame for not getting biglaw, which seems to pop up in one form or another every time a thread like this comes around.

Sure, there are people who probably coasted a bit and figured that they'd still have a good shot at 6 figures. I also don't doubt that some people probably did bomb their interviews and/or bid on the wrong firms. But, by and large, plenty of smart people who worked hard, got good grades, interviewed well, and sent out resumes ended up with nothing simply because the legal market isn't so hot, and sticking our heads in the sand and pretending like we'll be different because they must've done something wrong is as insulting as it is ignorant. They didn't do anything but go to law school just before the market collapsed, and we should wake up and realize that a decent percentage of us are going to wish we had taken their advice in a couple of years. I don't think that means we should all panic and not go to law school, but we should plan accordingly and not rely on OCI to make things happen--biglaw or otherwise.

bigben
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby bigben » Sun May 23, 2010 6:20 pm

A'nold wrote:
NoleinNY wrote:
A'nold wrote:Uh, trust me, that was no typo. It is a JDU troll that wants to grace us with his infinite wisdom on how the law field, unlike every other field, is saturated and jobs are hard to find and that we should all become plummers or garbage men.



To be fair, my high school econ teacher claimed that garbage collectors in large metros can make bank with adequate time on the job...


That's the point. The JDU'ers always talk about how everyone should just go to trade school and be a plumber or a garbage man. Here's a question: what if you don't want to be a freaking plumber or a garbage man, and you want to be a lawyer? I know that is a very deep and philosophical question, but still.......... :roll:


The point is probably that being a plumber or garbage man can be a far better decision--ex ante--than law school economically speaking. That is the point of contention, not that everyone should do one or the other, or people shouldn't follow their dreams or whatever in lieu of economic decision-making.
Last edited by bigben on Sun May 23, 2010 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

bigben
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby bigben » Sun May 23, 2010 6:24 pm

soundgardener wrote:So sorry that their dreams of working in "international arbitration" and "world trade" straight out of law school did not come to fruition.


Wow, credited. These people sound like idiots.

BobSacamano
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Re: Georgetown 3L's talk about there employment opportunities...

Postby BobSacamano » Sun May 23, 2010 7:03 pm

soundgardener wrote:So sorry that their dreams of working in "international arbitration" and "world trade" straight out of law school did not come to fruition.

I stopped reading the article right when I hit this line. If someone enrolled in law school with such laughably wild expectations, I simply cannot trust their navigation of the job market either in school or after graduation. That does not mean that the article is misleading or untruthful, it just means that these particular anecdotes are worthless.

edit: Just to soften the blow a little, I'll also add that their expectations are probably not entirely their own fault. The "glossy brochure" syndrome and lack of transparency in post-graduation employment statistics are partly responsible as well.
Last edited by BobSacamano on Sun May 23, 2010 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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