how do you know if you have strong softs?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11720
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby kalvano » Tue May 18, 2010 11:54 pm

d34dluk3 wrote:
kalvano wrote:I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.

Dude, reading comprehension...it's a good thing.



Lying and cheating is a good thing? Fascinating. I know several people who've tried it, out in the real world, hasn't worked so well for them.

d34d9823
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby d34d9823 » Tue May 18, 2010 11:58 pm

kalvano wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
kalvano wrote:I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.

Dude, reading comprehension...it's a good thing.



Lying and cheating is a good thing? Fascinating. I know several people who've tried it, out in the real world, hasn't worked so well for them.

I rest my case.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11720
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby kalvano » Wed May 19, 2010 12:03 am

d34dluk3 wrote:
kalvano wrote:
d34dluk3 wrote:
kalvano wrote:I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.

Dude, reading comprehension...it's a good thing.



Lying and cheating is a good thing? Fascinating. I know several people who've tried it, out in the real world, hasn't worked so well for them.

I rest my case.



What, that you're a fucking idiot?

procrastinator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:19 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby procrastinator » Wed May 19, 2010 12:06 am

Congress = top
Congress =! success

carvv
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:03 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby carvv » Wed May 19, 2010 8:28 am

How about working your ass off at two jobs for most of your life because you're trying to pull your family out of poverty? Is that a strong soft?

These discussions of softs have always struck a nerve with me because I feel like on top of all the work I'm doing I'm expected to be volunteering and taking parts in clubs and other such bullshit. There's just not enough time in my life.

K, done ranting.

User avatar
SaintClarence27
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:48 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Wed May 19, 2010 9:46 am

carvv wrote:How about working your ass off at two jobs for most of your life because you're trying to pull your family out of poverty? Is that a strong soft?

These discussions of softs have always struck a nerve with me because I feel like on top of all the work I'm doing I'm expected to be volunteering and taking parts in clubs and other such bullshit. There's just not enough time in my life.

K, done ranting.


It really doesn't matter. Unless there's something EXTREMELY unique about your circumstances, your numbers will dictate your cycle.

User avatar
inSouthAmerica
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby inSouthAmerica » Wed May 19, 2010 3:10 pm


User avatar
KibblesAndVick
Posts: 541
Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:29 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby KibblesAndVick » Wed May 19, 2010 3:32 pm

inSouthAmerica wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/sports/20climber.html?hp

best soft ever?


"Although Jordan is a typical eighth grader with floppy blond locks who forgets to shower and brush his teeth and who loves listening to Cali P and Jay-Z with friends..."

When that kids done picking the sand out of his vag he can come talk to Aron Ralston

User avatar
SaintClarence27
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:48 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Wed May 19, 2010 3:58 pm

inSouthAmerica wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/20/sports/20climber.html?hp

best soft ever?


The guy that cut off his arm with a multitool has the best soft ever. Climbing Everest is nothing in comparison.

Edit:
When that kids done picking the sand out of his vag he can come talk to Aron Ralston

Crap.

User avatar
inSouthAmerica
Posts: 190
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 6:15 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby inSouthAmerica » Wed May 19, 2010 4:40 pm

i think to have softs you must first be human. obviously the guy that sawed off his own arm is not human and in a different category.

User avatar
F458JE
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Apr 15, 2010 12:40 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby F458JE » Wed May 19, 2010 7:37 pm

.
Last edited by F458JE on Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

kevin261186
Posts: 113
Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 3:45 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby kevin261186 » Wed May 19, 2010 7:58 pm

Use the plot of Forrest Gump as a guideline for writing your PS and you'll have great a great soft.

User avatar
kalvano
Posts: 11720
Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 2:24 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby kalvano » Wed May 19, 2010 11:19 pm

F458JE wrote:
kalvano wrote:I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.



I enjoy how you have very little insight into how the real world works. I am not a lawyer, neither am I in law school yet, but I have worked directly alongside two excellent and well known lawyers. Not everything that goes on during a case is ethical.



As you like it. I know that graduating, holding down a job, making a mortgage, car payments, getting married, none of that really qualifies as understanding the real world. But, growing up with lawyers in the family and knowing more lawyers by the time I was 6 than you'll know in your life, I think I can speak pretty well on what makes a good lawyer and what doesn't.

So, as I said, I enjoy the idiotic rantings from people with no fucking clue.

User avatar
SaintClarence27
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:48 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Thu May 20, 2010 6:11 am

kalvano wrote:
F458JE wrote:
kalvano wrote:I enjoy the people with no fucking clue about how to practice law who have already decided the only way to be successful is to lie and cheat.



I enjoy how you have very little insight into how the real world works. I am not a lawyer, neither am I in law school yet, but I have worked directly alongside two excellent and well known lawyers. Not everything that goes on during a case is ethical.



As you like it. I know that graduating, holding down a job, making a mortgage, car payments, getting married, none of that really qualifies as understanding the real world. But, growing up with lawyers in the family and knowing more lawyers by the time I was 6 than you'll know in your life, I think I can speak pretty well on what makes a good lawyer and what doesn't.

So, as I said, I enjoy the idiotic rantings from people with no fucking clue.


Aside from you being right, what strikes me as funny is the idea that he's defending lying on your resume to get into a better school. Even if "Not everything that goes on during a case is ethical," this is a huge screw up. It could keep you from being admitted to the bar - and it's not like they don't check up on these things. It would be an incredibly stupid thing to do, at least partially because it wouldn't even help you. Your numbers would *still* dictate your cycle.

User avatar
LawandOrder
Posts: 611
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 4:36 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby LawandOrder » Thu May 20, 2010 7:08 am

Nightrunner wrote:I founded a country once.


Lol that thread was hilarious:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=73823

Sias
Posts: 113
Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2010 2:48 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby Sias » Thu May 20, 2010 3:27 pm

fwaam wrote:
Sias wrote:Living abroad for a few years is one of the few softs that's both "strong" and actually somewhat common. I'm not talking about studying abroad for a year, but living in another country for 2+ years so that you can also list being somewhat proficient in another language.

Otherwise, softs are almost always weak. A lot of people come here thinking that community service, athletics, or a "special" background (I quotation because these are almost always just an overly dramatized sob story about a person's upbringing) are strong. They aren't. This stuff is filler and will buff an application sure, but it won't compensate for below median numbers like a "strong" soft might.


This makes no sense. The OP wants to know what's average, what's above average, what's below average. By definition, the vast majority of applicants can't be below average. They're average. I'd guess "average" in the overall applicant pool means some club memberships, maybe a leadership position or two, an internship or two and probably some half-assed volunteer work.

Maybe you do have to be really outstanding to outperform your numbers, but you're pretty well guaranteed to underperform if you haven't done anything.


I never mentioned an average nor did I suggest that softs are measured on some sort of curve, which is the idea that you seem to be massaging right now. The term "weak" was correctly used to indicate that most softs lack potency or efficacy with regard to one's application. This is a numbers game, and an applicant with a 178/4.0 will still be a 178/4.0 if he or she never volunteered or played sports or traveled abroad while in college.

Similarly, someone with a 155/2.5 might think he or she has excellent softs because they interned for a Congressman for a year, but no school is going to look very far beyond those numbers. Why, you ask? Because those numbers: A) potentially hurt the school's desired medians and, by extension, rank; B) indicate that the individual probably doesn't have the mental acuity or, at the very least, the work ethic to succeed in law school; and C) that many unsuccessful law students tend to reflect poorly on the school they attended.

Now the above example could be used with an applicant whose numbers are about median, in which case softs might play a role in said applicant being granted admission. However, even in less extreme circumstances, softs really won't be considered until numbers have been accounted for (i.e. school's reaching their medians; sometimes they prefer high-LSAT splitters over a strong, well-rounded candidate to reach these goals), and demographics have been accounted for (race, ethnicity, location, age).

So yes, softs are almost always weak and shouldn't be expected to do much for an application. Good to have--no doubt about that--but ultimately of small consequence.

You might ask, "But then what would be a 'strong' soft which might prompt an adcomm committee to overlook a weak LSAT/GPA?" Examples might include patenting an invention or publishing a novel. They don't have to be particularly grand or exciting (otherwise why are you applying to law school if you're a successful novelist?), but by virtue of the accomplishment itself the committee might think "here's someone with drive or a desire to achieve. Even if he or she doesn't go into a legal career, there might be a potential notable alumni here," and schools love having famous alumni.

User avatar
Patriot1208
Posts: 7044
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 11:28 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby Patriot1208 » Fri May 21, 2010 9:19 am

I have a TS security clearance and have been working for the DOJ as an IA for two years while at a top university and traveling to the Dominican Republic/haiti for a total of four months over that time to do work with an orphanage/earthquake relief. Also i'm a student athlete.

And I think this means I have average softs or slightly above average.

procrastinator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:19 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby procrastinator » Fri May 21, 2010 9:42 am

Those seem pretty amazing to me, especially if there's a common theme. The TS isn't a soft, it's just a way to put the school at ease (although a TS is really probably less rigorous than some states' C&F)

User avatar
SaintClarence27
Posts: 700
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:48 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby SaintClarence27 » Fri May 21, 2010 9:47 am

I invented a time machine, went back, and killed Hitler. Also, I pushed Mehndellson, Curie, and Pasteur in the right direction.

Average softs.

ScaredWorkedBored
Posts: 409
Joined: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Fri May 21, 2010 9:51 am

procrastinator wrote:Those seem pretty amazing to me, especially if there's a common theme. The TS isn't a soft, it's just a way to put the school at ease (although a TS is really probably less rigorous than some states' C&F)


Bwaaah? If you think a state bar even approaches the SSBI, you're smoking some good stuff (especially considering that the FBI is the keeper of that lovely "have you ever been arrested" data).

User avatar
clintonius
Posts: 1239
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 1:50 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby clintonius » Fri May 21, 2010 10:37 am

Sias wrote:You might ask, "But then what would be a 'strong' soft which might prompt an adcomm committee to overlook a weak LSAT/GPA?" Examples might include patenting an invention or publishing a novel. They don't have to be particularly grand or exciting (otherwise why are you applying to law school if you're a successful novelist?), but by virtue of the accomplishment itself the committee might think "here's someone with drive or a desire to achieve. Even if he or she doesn't go into a legal career, there might be a potential notable alumni here," and schools love having famous alumni.

Those are probably excellent softs. Another one is worth mentioning is a Rhodes Scholarship. That's among the best softs you can have, and from what I understand, comes about as close to guaranteeing you admission to Yale as anything will. Except being a legacy. But if you're a legacy your au pair probably told you all this already. Also, fuck you.

procrastinator
Posts: 144
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:19 am

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby procrastinator » Fri May 21, 2010 10:40 am

ScaredWorkedBored wrote:
procrastinator wrote:Those seem pretty amazing to me, especially if there's a common theme. The TS isn't a soft, it's just a way to put the school at ease (although a TS is really probably less rigorous than some states' C&F)


Bwaaah? If you think a state bar even approaches the SSBI, you're smoking some good stuff (especially considering that the FBI is the keeper of that lovely "have you ever been arrested" data).

Maybe a DoD TS is different, but the FBI isn't the agency that conducts them. Arrest records are not the issue. Besides, that was a half-joke.

User avatar
Matthies
Posts: 1253
Joined: Fri Aug 14, 2009 6:18 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby Matthies » Fri May 21, 2010 11:02 am

At my age having a good soft means I don't need to ask my doctor for viagra

d34d9823
Posts: 1915
Joined: Wed Apr 14, 2010 2:52 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby d34d9823 » Fri May 21, 2010 11:10 am

Matthies wrote:At my age having a good soft means I don't need to ask my doctor for viagra

Matthies strikes again.

CanadianWolf
Posts: 10439
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:54 pm

Re: how do you know if you have strong softs?

Postby CanadianWolf » Fri May 21, 2010 11:21 am

Strong softs might also include significant family ties to the law school; for example, you are applying to Washington & Lee and note that the school is named after your two great, great, great grandfathers.




Return to “Law School FAQ”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest