top 10%: really? really?

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Ken Griffey Jr. 24
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top 10%: really? really?

Postby Ken Griffey Jr. 24 » Wed May 12, 2010 4:55 pm

So I've seen a lot of posts from TLSers talking about predicating their decision to attend law school on being in the top 10% at a lesser-ranked school... and it leads me to a conclusion: everyone on this site is either an exceptional poker player (ie friend who has banked 1.5 mil in 3 years) or they are far too naive to be putting law school tuition kind-of money into the pot. I don't mean to take a shot at being confident-but really? You are going to go 180k into debt where you have 9/10 odds of being effectively screwed in this economy? It's like calling with an 8/2 unsuited in a game where other people sitting at the table are being dealt pocket aces and flush draws. I think re-phrasing it into those terms (for someone who understands poker) could give some people a little perspective. It's not like you are stepping down a level in terms of competition--every one of your classmates (more or less) at a school you are accepted to has the same college GPA, the same LSAT, and most importantly the same ambition. Do you think the "bottom 90%" goes to school with that goal in mind? I know this is harsh but I think many of the students/lawyers lamenting about career prospects have no one to blame but themselves.

I'm devoting a considerable portion of my life to prepare my application and study for the LSAT. But when I sit down in a year with acceptance/rejection letters, I am going to have to make a responsible choice for my future, regardless of what idealistic aspirations I might have. I suppose everyone has a right to go to school, but I wonder if people have an informed idea about legal employment practices and standards. I initially thought posters on this site were ridiculous when they said you could only go T-14 nationally. As smug as these posters may be, they are, for the most part, quite accurate. Take a look at rosters of the top national firms in major cities. You either have to go to a T-14 or to the top regional school(s). US News ranks are misleading in that they fail to acknowledge that it is not a T1/2/3/4 system. It is T14 and then you have a ladder in each individual region--with better regional schools having larger regions (but not national). The NLJ also publishes a great report showing what % of the graduating class at each school go to Big Law. Look at the firm websites, look at the NLJ, and then make a rationale decision. Yes there are the exceptions of success stories for lower-ranked graduates in BIG law, but you have to acknowledge the probabilities involved.

I suppose it's possible that there are some legal Phil Ivy's (who somehow didn't manage to do well on the LSAT/GPA...) who will be capable of playing their cards right in making that top 10% (probably more like 5 based on the data I mentioned) cut. But for the other 90-95%, there's no shame in either choosing a different path or taking another year to get work experience/study for LSAT. Why go against TERRIBLE odds and potentially put yourself in a bind for the better part of your future? Considering the surplus of lawyers flooding the job market, it's disappointing that the ABA has continued to approve new schools that should be transparently seen as no different than any other profit-venture. These schools are preying on the stupidity/unawareness of students. I hope at least someone reads this and takes a second thought to making such a significant decision.

Griffey is a g. even when he's sleeping

yeff
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby yeff » Wed May 12, 2010 4:59 pm

tl;dr

go mariners.

EDIT: got bored. read it.

TL;DR version:
TLS CW on LS (heaps of people are crazy for assuming they'll make top 10 percent at a non T14 or top regional and get a job) + poker analogy.
Last edited by yeff on Wed May 12, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

eldizknee
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby eldizknee » Wed May 12, 2010 5:00 pm

Ken Griffey Jr. 24 wrote:[strike]Griffey is a g. even when he's sleeping[/strike]


The rest of your post is credited.

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kalvano
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby kalvano » Wed May 12, 2010 5:00 pm

I quit reading after 5 or 6 sentences, but it was enough to realize you're a giant douche.

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holydonkey
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby holydonkey » Wed May 12, 2010 5:00 pm

Here's a guy riding a dinosaur with laser cannons

Image

yeff
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby yeff » Wed May 12, 2010 5:02 pm

holydonkey wrote:Here's a guy riding a dinosaur with laser cannons

Image


Dino-Riders. YES!

Mr. Pablo
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Wed May 12, 2010 5:03 pm

I loved reading the line about Jr. on the ESPN ticker. We had a good laugh here at my homestead.

Also, the real question is whether you would take your own advice if you bombed the LSAT. It's easy to rail against other people's choices when you have great options.
Last edited by Mr. Pablo on Wed May 12, 2010 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

yeff
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby yeff » Wed May 12, 2010 5:03 pm

Image

Sias
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby Sias » Wed May 12, 2010 5:04 pm

Do you think that an analogy likening law school to poker somehow revitalizes and refreshes as new ideas that have already been discussed at length here? Are we to be impressed with your epiphany, despite it being long-held common knowledge for anyone who has done their homework?

Mr. Pablo
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Wed May 12, 2010 5:04 pm

yeff wrote:Image


I think I had toys that looked like that.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby Kilpatrick » Wed May 12, 2010 5:05 pm

kalvano wrote:I quit reading after 5 or 6 sentences, but it was enough to realize you're a giant douche.


+1

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3 Stripes
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby 3 Stripes » Wed May 12, 2010 5:05 pm

kalvano wrote:I quit reading after 5 or 6 sentences, but it was enough to realize you're a giant douche.


+2

shutterbug
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby shutterbug » Wed May 12, 2010 5:06 pm

kalvano wrote:I quit reading after 5 or 6 sentences, but it was enough to realize you're a giant douche.


+1,000,000,000,000

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holydonkey
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby holydonkey » Wed May 12, 2010 5:06 pm

pure awesomeness -

http://www.dinoriders.com/

Ken Griffey Jr. 24
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby Ken Griffey Jr. 24 » Wed May 12, 2010 5:08 pm

don't get me wrong--if I put a year into the LSAT and I still don't put myself in a favorable position...I will be one sad panda. However, it's an easier pill to swallow then living with my parents in 5 years cuz' I'm busing tables to work off law debt (note: I do not mean to say you can't get a "solid" job going to a lesser-ranked school. I am directing this specifically towards big law)

yeff
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby yeff » Wed May 12, 2010 5:09 pm


Ken Griffey Jr. 24
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby Ken Griffey Jr. 24 » Wed May 12, 2010 5:09 pm

but yea, you are right. I am kind of a douche. As I alluded, can't win em all

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D. H2Oman
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed May 12, 2010 5:11 pm

Ken Griffey Jr. 24 wrote:don't get me wrong--if I put a year into the LSAT and I still don't put myself in a favorable position...I will be one sad panda. However, it's an easier pill to swallow then living with my parents in 5 years cuz' I'm busing tables to work off law debt (note: I do not mean to say you can't get a "solid" job going to a lesser-ranked school. I am directing this specifically towards big law)



I guarantee you won't do well on the LSAT.

Ken Griffey Jr. 24
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby Ken Griffey Jr. 24 » Wed May 12, 2010 5:12 pm

and although I agree I said nothing that was "new," there continue to be posters asking the same "should I go questions." I was simply providing my own lame answer. I'm glad you found it unsatisfying

Mr. Pablo
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby Mr. Pablo » Wed May 12, 2010 5:13 pm

Ken Griffey Jr. 24 wrote:but yea, you are right. I am kind of a douche. As I alluded, can't win em all

It would have been better if you responded with loquacious indignation and frothy anger. That makes for a better thread.

yeff
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby yeff » Wed May 12, 2010 5:14 pm

Ken Griffey Jr. 24 wrote:but yea, you are right. I am kind of a douche. As I alluded, can't win em all


--ImageRemoved--

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pugalicious
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby pugalicious » Wed May 12, 2010 5:15 pm

Ken Griffey Jr. 24 wrote:don't get me wrong--if I put a year into the LSAT and I still don't put myself in a favorable position...I will be one sad panda. However, it's an easier pill to swallow then living with my parents in 5 years cuz' I'm busing tables to work off law debt (note: I do not mean to say you can't get a "solid" job going to a lesser-ranked school. I am directing this specifically towards big law)

eldizknee
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby eldizknee » Wed May 12, 2010 5:15 pm

yeff wrote:
Ken Griffey Jr. 24 wrote:but yea, you are right. I am kind of a douche. As I alluded, can't win em all


--ImageRemoved--


LOL 178

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kalvano
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby kalvano » Wed May 12, 2010 5:16 pm

The whole premise that I find laughable is that you have to be top 10% at a T14 school or you're consigned to waiting tables.

How old are you? 21, 22? Take a step back from the Internet and go out and experience real life for a couple years. It will do you good.

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YCrevolution
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Re: top 10%: really? really?

Postby YCrevolution » Wed May 12, 2010 5:17 pm

..




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