Most Over-Ranked/Under-Ranked Schools Forum

[d34d9823]

Over Ranked:

Duke
UVA
UPenn
Michigan
BOALT
NYU
GW
WUSTL
USC
Vanderbilt
UT
UCLA
GULC

Underranked:

Northwestern
UIUC

So wait... 6 of the top-10 are overranked and 6 of the 11-20 schools are overranked? Including Vanderbilt, which is the only school to increase its NLJ 250 numbers this year?

Seriously, Logic Games fail incoming here. Throw out half the T14! Put 7 other schools in their place! But not any schools ranked 15-20 because they are all overranked too!

[SaintClarence27]

Seriously, Logic Games fail incoming here. Throw out half the T14! Put 7 other schools in their place! But not any schools ranked 15-20 because they are all overranked too!

Did *no one* look at the schools I'm still considering? Really? Really??? Do you think I'm actually being serious?

[PenutButterJellyTime]

Law school itself is overrated. It's a white-collar vocational degree.

+1

BAAAAAAAAM

[legalized]

As a professional 0L and noob my list would be the following:

Most Over Ranked:
IOWA
Pepperdine
Boston College
University of San Diego

Most Under Ranked:
UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON
Brigham Young University
Tulane
Pace

I definitely agree with Brigham Young. It's price is more than manageable even for out of state-ers, it's placement and bar passage stats are great, and it has some NICE looking living facilities (at least the online tour i saw of the family housing).

I think people don't like the Mormon thing that affects the rules of the campus.

[legalized]

I can't quite understand the Iowa hate that so often pervades these boards. The school isn't particularly selective for a T1, but its placement stats are similar to other regional schools like Minnesota, Illinois, or University of Washington. What am I missing?

The fact that the school is in Iowa.

I personally have nothing against Iowa, but many people only think of fields, toothlessness, corn mash, and big offensive lineman/bad big 10 football when they hear the name Iowa.

Seriously, I passed through Iowa and all I saw WERE cornfields. And maybe a cow.

While in Denver I did manage to end up on a bus full of Nebraska Cornhuskers who were either very drunk or very horny and they did have that big offensive lineman look to them...Nebraska and Iowa are about the same image in my head as far as I am concerned.

[HBK]

Law school itself is overrated. It's a white-collar vocational degree.

I tell people that it's like trade school for smart people.

[Pearalegal]

Most Under Ranked:

UCLA

Why on earth is UCLA under ranked?

[JOThompson]

The only possible reason I can fathom is this: it's located in popular SoCal. TLS seems to have a strong bias for the coasts.

[D. H2Oman]

Overrated:
Georgetown

Underrated:
Northwestern

[Pearalegal]

Overrated:
Georgetown

Underrated:
Northwestern

100% agree.

JOThompson- you're probably right. UCLA is one of those schools that is exactly where I think it should be.

[legalized]

Overranked:
IU-B
[strike]Tulane[/strike] (Are you joking...or smoking? Tulane should be at least top-40 and arguably top 30-35)WUSTL
[strike]NYU[/strike] (No way! If anything, NYU is underranked/underrated)
Minnesota
Hofstra
[strike]Syracuse[/strike] (some people think it's very under...)

Underranked:
[strike]Michigan[/strike]
Wisconsin (although not so much this year finally)
Vanderbilt (+1)
BU
Chicago-Kent (+1)
Loyola (+1 on L.A., Chicago and NOLA)

Tulane is one of the most flagrant gamers of starting salary/placement statistics out there. Once you take into account that their starting salary statistics are juiced, you realize that they belong in the T2.

NYU is a diploma mill in the largest legal market in the world. It is to the T6 what Georgetown is to the T14. Sure, you can get a market-paying job there, but the COL is through the roof, and the same salary in every other city goes much farther. If I were going to a T10, I'd be looking at clerkship/academia placement.

Wow someone just got on me for not including NYU in my T5 cutoff of list of places to pay sticker or close to sticker to attend...I think it's interchangeable with Columbia and is not just a diploma mill, lol...but Columbia is in a better location, and has more prestige (as in, does not get constantly confused with NEW YORK LAW SCHOOL smh).

****
U Maryland's law school is in an awful location.

Overrated:
Georgetown
American
George Washington

Underrated:
Brigham Young
UToledo
Mercer

[Tautology]

Over Ranked:

Duke
UVA
UPenn
Michigan
BOALT
NYU
GW
WUSTL
USC
Vanderbilt
UT
UCLA
GULC

Underranked:

Northwestern
UIUC

So wait... 6 of the top-10 are overranked and 6 of the 11-20 schools are overranked? Including Vanderbilt, which is the only school to increase its NLJ 250 numbers this year?

Seriously, Logic Games fail incoming here. Throw out half the T14! Put 7 other schools in their place! But not any schools ranked 15-20 because they are all overranked too!

So if you move Northwestern ahead of NYU, and UIUC ahead of GULC you end up moving all of the schools on his over-rated list down exactly 1 spot while increasing the rankings of Northwestern and UIUC. There's no logic games fail here (at least, not by him), he thinks NYU-Duke should all move down a spot and are thus over-rated, and GULC-GW should all move down a spot, thus over-rated while Northwestern and UIUC should move up and are thus under-rated.

[legalized]

Law school itself is overrated. It's a white-collar vocational degree.

I tell people that it's like trade school for smart people.

That's actually a good thing. People can take trades with them wherever they go, and in most cases except maybe nursing, can work for themselves as soon as they are trained and licensed, provided they have the networking and marketing skills to build a client base.

Trades are more reliable than getting a degree that could lead to anything and nothing. You get a pharmacy degree you know exactly what to do with it: Pharmacist. Law, same thing: Lawyer. I doubt a history major gets their first degree in the field and can immediately go be a...historian.

[D. H2Oman]

Lawl @ any school outside T6 being underrated. You should just be happy USNWR bothers to rank such lackluster institutions as anything other than Lolglhfwithjobs.

Sup KM, you decide where you're going yet?

[Slimpee]

Seriously, I passed through Iowa and all I saw WERE cornfields. And maybe a cow.

While in Denver I did manage to end up on a bus full of Nebraska Cornhuskers who were either very drunk or very horny and they did have that big offensive lineman look to them...Nebraska and Iowa are about the same image in my head as far as I am concerned.

So in one short post you managed to insult both the state in which i'm probably attending LS and the state in which I grew up.

We're going to have to fight.

See you in Moot Court, son...

[ViP]

UC IRvine waayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Over-ranked , too much hype

I also find unranked schools "over-ranked."

[PDaddy]

Overrated:
Northwestern

Underrated:
Georgetown

IMO this is backwards.

[Fark-o-vision]

Overrated:
Georgetown

Underrated:
Northwestern

100% agree.

JOThompson- you're probably right. UCLA is one of those schools that is exactly where I think it should be.

Mostly I'm not serious here, but I do think Cornell gets over ranked. I spend little time on the east coast (two weeks this year, none last, maybe two or three the year before), but Cornell only seems to get a glossy bit of recognition in LA. UCLA, on the other hand, seems to have a name that carries it to locations like Miami, Chicago, and D.C. All of the other t14, as well UCLA, Texas, and George Washington get brought up in every conversation with attorneys I have about choosing a law school, though I agree with a post in another thread who suggested George Washington may be siphoning some of Georgetown's cred. Does Cornell place magically well in NY and DC?

[PDaddy]

Most Under Ranked:

UCLA

Why on earth is UCLA under ranked?

Everyone agrees that USNWR metrics are retarded. But their reputational scores also penalize "regional" power schools like UCLA. That metric gets too much weight, and UCLA more than any school in the country suffers as a result. The school cannot control self-selection, which USNWR should control for. Demographically, UCLA law students just don't want to leave So. Cal. I tend to believe that Duke, Cornell and GULC have arguably been holding spots that have belonged to UCLA, Vandy and Texas for the past few years. Is there much difference between them?

[SaintClarence27]

Most Under Ranked:

UCLA

Why on earth is UCLA under ranked?

Everyone agrees that USNWR metrics are retarded. But their reputational scores also penalize "regional" power schools like UCLA. That metric gets too much weight, and UCLA more than any school in the country suffers as a result. The school cannot control self-selection, which USNWR should control for. Demographically, UCLA law students just don't want to leave So. Cal. I tend to believe that Duke, Cornell and GULC have arguably been holding spots that have belonged to UCLA, Vandy and Texas for the past few years. Is there much difference between them?

If so many people at UCLA are self-selecting to So. Cal, that would limit the national alumni network, reducing a UCLA J.D.'s portability. Whether it's self-selection or not, it still makes a difference in portability, and, while not important to many, it's still a signature of T14. Your argument about Cornell not being portable bears a lot of weight, though.

[kopper]

I think Temple is under-ranked, but I'm also extremely biased.

It's an extremely strong regional school in a major metropolitan area.

+1 on Temple and extreme bias.

[stintez]

Gonna be an OSU troll and say OSU is under-ranked.

ftfm. Go Buckeyes.

ead OH IO

[PDaddy]

Most Under Ranked:

UCLA

Why on earth is UCLA under ranked?

Everyone agrees that USNWR metrics are retarded. But their reputational scores also penalize "regional" power schools like UCLA. That metric gets too much weight, and UCLA more than any school in the country suffers as a result. The school cannot control self-selection, which USNWR should control for. Demographically, UCLA law students just don't want to leave So. Cal. I tend to believe that Duke, Cornell and GULC have arguably been holding spots that have belonged to UCLA, Vandy and Texas for the past few years. Is there much difference between them?

If so many people at UCLA are self-selecting to So. Cal, that would limit the national alumni network, reducing a UCLA J.D.'s portability. Whether it's self-selection or not, it still makes a difference in portability, and, while not important to many, it's still a signature of T14. Your argument about Cornell not being portable bears a lot of weight, though.

My question would then be, "Why should national alumni network factor into a school that doesn't propose to depend on one?" That's like ranking Gonzaga basketball lower than Duke because Gonzaga features fewer McDonal'd All-Americans. A greater number of Duke's players might make the NBA, but that has little bearing on whether or not either school will win a national title. If Gonzaga can still field a better team than Duke can in some years, who cares about NBA prospects?

UCLA is in that same boat when compared to Duke Law. Duke might employ people in greater numbers in more markets. But who cares about that if the same percentage of UCLA graduates wind up where they want to be, whether that's mostly in Cali or not? Most regional schools fail at holding down their own markets. Why penalize UCLA for being dominant at home? This is what students expect when they go there; so the school is doing what it's supposed to.

[SaintClarence27]

If so many people at UCLA are self-selecting to So. Cal, that would limit the national alumni network, reducing a UCLA J.D.'s portability. Whether it's self-selection or not, it still makes a difference in portability, and, while not important to many, it's still a signature of T14. Your argument about Cornell not being portable bears a lot of weight, though.

My question would then be, "Why should national alumni network factor into a school that doesn't propose to depend on one?" That's like ranking Gonzaga basketball lower than Duke because Gonzaga features fewer McDonal'd All-Americans. A greater number of Duke's players might make the NBA, but that has little bearing on whether or not either school will win a national title. If Gonzaga can still field a better team than Duke can in some years, who cares about NBA prospects?

UCLA is in that same boat when compared to Duke Law. Duke might employ people in greater numbers in more markets. But who cares about that if the same percentage of UCLA graduates wind up where they want to be, whether that's mostly in Cali or not? Most regional schools fail at holding down their own markets. Why penalize UCLA for being dominant at home? This is what students expect when they go there; so the school is doing what it's supposed to.

I'm saying that through self-selection, lack of alumni, whatever, T14 is for national portability. The few after that (Vandy, UT, UCLA) are for dominant regionals. I'd argue that it should be the T12 for national, and include Cornell and GULC in the dominant regional group.

[big_blue79]

[quote="PDaddy]
My question would then be, "Why should national alumni network factor into a school that doesn't propose to depend on one?" That's like ranking Gonzaga basketball lower than Duke because Gonzaga features fewer McDonal'd All-Americans. A greater number of Duke's players might make the NBA, but that has little bearing on whether or not either school will win a national title. If Gonzaga can still field a better team than Duke can in some years, who cares about NBA prospects?
[/quote]

Ugh, analogies are generally a terrible way to convey a point. Gonzaga is consistently overrated, which seems to be the opposite of what you're trying to convey with UCLA. Plus, Duke just won a national title (I just puked in my mouth typing it), by doing exactly what you propose Gonzaga does (good players that don't necessarily translate to the NBA), so probably the worse possible team to use there. Finally, if comparing basketball to law, college basketball is a trade-school/stepping-stone (just like law school) to the real goal: the NBA (analagous to a prestigious law job ie the one you want). In your case, Gonzaga/UCLA propose to prepare their players for college basketball (possibly correct) and moot court/exams (definitely not correct).

TL:DR Analogies suck.