In it for the money?

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TheRagingBull
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In it for the money?

Postby TheRagingBull » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:06 pm

I've been lurking on the forums for several months and decided to take the "registration plunge" to pose a question.

I am one year away from graduating in Construction Management at one of the top CM programs/universities in the country. As part of the classes required to graduate, I had to take a construction law class and spent a lot of time in the law library at my university. Through the class I found that I really enjoy law and would sometimes spend hours in the law library reading cases just because they were interesting. I am having a really difficult time deciding whether to continue pursuing law or take the quick route and continue with construction management.

Between the two careers, the hours worked per week is roughly the same (50-60 hrs., although I think construction would ultimately be more stressful). The years required to move up in a company is also roughly the same. I enjoy construction probably just as much as I enjoy law and I think I could be happy in either one or I could combine both and practice construction law.

The information that I am having difficulty finding is the salary. I will be graduating next year with a little over 30k in debt and my school's average for the starting salary right out of school is 65k/year and can quickly rise to 100k+ after a few years in the industry. If I were to go to law school, I wouldn't be going to a top tier school because my GPA (3.1) is relatively low due to working full-time through school. Also, I'd be taking on a ton of debt in addition to the opportunity cost of not working for three years.

Sooooo.....after a long wall of text my question is what route would you recommend if it's simply viewed from an economic standpoint? Could I ultimately make more money as an attorney or as a construction manager?

eldizknee
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby eldizknee » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:10 pm

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Last edited by eldizknee on Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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holydonkey
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby holydonkey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:13 pm

Take the lsat and see how you do. Who knows, you might rock it and get a great score. If you do, apply to good law schools. If you don't, go into construction.

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lostjake
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby lostjake » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:16 pm

(50-60 hrs., although I think construction would ultimately be more stressful). The years required to move up in a company is also roughly the same.


False. Going to law school and being an lawyer will be more stressful, by far.

I will be graduating next year with a little over 30k in debt and my school's average for the starting salary right out of school is 65k/year and can quickly rise to 100k+ after a few years in the industry.


False. Your school may tell you that, but I'm guessing most people in your graduating class, especially will a construction major of any kind are having an exteremely hard time finding a job right now, just like everyone else graduating college. Do you have any job offers right now? How many people do you know graduating having job offers, at all, let alone at 65k? Engineers don't even start out at that.

Could I ultimately make more money as an attorney or as a construction manager?


As a lawyer you would probably top out higher, but the odds are that you'd make more money on an average basis as a construction manager. You'd probably have better odds at the casino than making more money as a lawyer than a construction manager, much much better odds.

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A'nold
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:17 pm

The Devry School of Construction Management *dude in business suit and a hard hat pointing at a skyscraper* will set you on the path to an exciting and rewarding career as a construction manager.......

TheRagingBull
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby TheRagingBull » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:18 pm

eldizknee wrote:you *could* make more as an attorney. However, the possibility of that from a lower tier school is very low. Purely economics, take the construction money and never look back.


That's the kind of information that I couldn't find. If you search on salary.com or other sites, they give you an average number that doesn't factor in where each attorney went to school and what size of firm they are working for. If I was to go to a low tier law school, I am afraid I would be kicking myself after I got out and not being able to get a job that pays 60k/year.

Wooster33
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby Wooster33 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:19 pm

Why don't you at least try the CM thing? Maybe you'll love it. I have to imagine the average CM is happier than the average attorney.

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Rock Chalk
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby Rock Chalk » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:19 pm

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Last edited by Rock Chalk on Wed May 16, 2012 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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merichard87
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby merichard87 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:24 pm

lostjake wrote:
(50-60 hrs., although I think construction would ultimately be more stressful). The years required to move up in a company is also roughly the same.


False. Going to law school and being an lawyer will be more stressful, by far.

I will be graduating next year with a little over 30k in debt and my school's average for the starting salary right out of school is 65k/year and can quickly rise to 100k+ after a few years in the industry.


False. Your school may tell you that, but I'm guessing most people in your graduating class, especially will a construction major of any kind are having an exteremely hard time finding a job right now, just like everyone else graduating college. Do you have any job offers right now? How many people do you know graduating having job offers, at all, let alone at 65k? Engineers don't even start out at that.

Could I ultimately make more money as an attorney or as a construction manager?


As a lawyer you would probably top out higher, but the odds are that you'd make more money on an average basis as a construction manager. You'd probably have better odds at the casino than making more money as a lawyer than a construction manager, much much better odds.



I'm not sure what school you are coming from but it more than reasonable for an engineer to start at 60k to 65k with any type of decent resume.

OP: I agree with an above poster, take the LSAT see how you do. Work for a year and see how you like it. You don't have to make any decisions right now.

TheRagingBull
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby TheRagingBull » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:26 pm

lostjake wrote:
(50-60 hrs., although I think construction would ultimately be more stressful). The years required to move up in a company is also roughly the same.


False. Going to law school and being an lawyer will be more stressful, by far.

I will be graduating next year with a little over 30k in debt and my school's average for the starting salary right out of school is 65k/year and can quickly rise to 100k+ after a few years in the industry.


False. Your school may tell you that, but I'm guessing most people in your graduating class, especially will a construction major of any kind are having an exteremely hard time finding a job right now, just like everyone else graduating college. Do you have any job offers right now? How many people do you know graduating having job offers, at all, let alone at 65k? Engineers don't even start out at that.

Could I ultimately make more money as an attorney or as a construction manager?


As a lawyer you would probably top out higher, but the odds are that you'd make more money on an average basis as a construction manager. You'd probably have better odds at the casino than making more money as a lawyer than a construction manager, much much better odds.



My school doesn't just give me numbers, they use data gathered from Alumni. As part of graduation, I have to agree to filling out a packet of information that describes my salary, location, experiences, likes, dislikes, etc. after three years from graduation. I have a couple of buddies that accepted jobs at various construction companies at that salary as well. Big construction companies pay really well, even though the industry is cyclical and in a downturn right now.

EDIT: And as far as stress goes, I'm not too sure what it's like to be a lawyer day to day, but heart conditions are an extremely common side-effect of construction. Heck, my professors friend just died at the age of 42 from a massive heart attack caused by years of high stress.

hank44
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby hank44 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:37 pm

Engineers from good schools, even and including good state schools, certainly start at about 60K - thats not unusual at all...the fact that construction management is less stressful than law school/being a lawyer - that just sounds completely subjective and either from someone who A. has never had a real job (lawyers arent the only people with stress) or B. needs to perpetuate the idea that being a lawyer is the most stressful thing on the planet in order to justify the decision to become one and somehow inflate the ego
Last edited by hank44 on Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lostjake
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby lostjake » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:37 pm

If thats the case you should go to some TTT and make $$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean, they all have starting salaries of 80-90k! Why doesn't anyone else do this?!?! Also, here are average starting salaries of engineers:

Petroleum $83,121
Chemical 64,902
Mining and Mineral 64,404
Computer 61,738
Nuclear 61,610
Electrical/electronics and communications 60,125
Mechanical 58,766
Industrial/manufacturing 58,358
Materials 57,349
Aerospace/aeronautical/astronautical 56,311
Agricultural 54,352
Bioengineering and biomedical 54,158
Civil 52,048
--LinkRemoved--
And people who report these numbers often lie and say they make more than they do, and just like law school numbers lots of graduates don't respond. Drink some more kool aid people...

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A'nold
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:39 pm

See my extremely funny and witty post that nobody commented on.

hank44
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby hank44 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:41 pm

at least be fair! ha. you left out half of the stats you looked up...

look at that linke, theres several classes of engineers with a median salary over 60k that you conveniently left out...and using stats to back up a point, then criticizing the validity of those same stats...thats just confusing


lostjake wrote:If thats the case you should go to some TTT and make $$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean, they all have starting salaries of 80-90k! Why doesn't anyone else do this?!?! Also, here are average starting salaries of engineers:

Petroleum $83,121
Chemical 64,902
Mining and Mineral 64,404
Computer 61,738
Nuclear 61,610
Electrical/electronics and communications 60,125
Mechanical 58,766
Industrial/manufacturing 58,358
Materials 57,349
Aerospace/aeronautical/astronautical 56,311
Agricultural 54,352
Bioengineering and biomedical 54,158
Civil 52,048
--LinkRemoved--
And people who report these numbers often lie and say they make more than they do, and just like law school numbers lots of graduates don't respond. Drink some more kool aid people...
Last edited by hank44 on Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lostjake
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby lostjake » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:41 pm

hank44 wrote:Engineers from good schools, even and including good state schools, can not find jobs - thats not unusual at all...the fact that construction management is less stressful than law school/being a lawyer - that just sounds completely subjective and either from someone who A. has never had a real job (lawyers arent the only people with stress) or B. needs to perpetuate the idea that being a lawyer is the most stressful thing on the planet in order to justify the decision to become one and somehow inflate the ego


FTFY

Also I am an employed engineer. I frequently talk to fraternity brothers who are still in school, with great GPAs and they don't even get call backs. I graduated in 2003 and had 20 job offers with a slightly higher GPA. If you think there are starting engineer positions open after all the auto companies laid off thousands of engineers with experience willing to start at 50k per year, you're wrong. very wrong.

TheRagingBull
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby TheRagingBull » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:42 pm

A'nold wrote:See my extremely funny and witty post that nobody commented on.


I didn't get it... sorry.

Now you'll have to explain your joke and we all know that explaining jokes simply ruins them. :wink:

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lostjake
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby lostjake » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:43 pm

Those are salaries of ALL engineers, not starting engineers. You should practice your RC before taking the LSAT.

hank44 wrote:at least be fair! ha. you left out half of the stats you looked up...

look at that linke, theres several classes of engineers with a median salary over 60k that you conveniently left out...and using stats to back up a point, then criticizing the validity of those same stats...thats just confusing


lostjake wrote:If thats the case you should go to some TTT and make $$$$$$$$$$$!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I mean, they all have starting salaries of 80-90k! Why doesn't anyone else do this?!?! Also, here are average starting salaries of engineers:

Petroleum $83,121
Chemical 64,902
Mining and Mineral 64,404
Computer 61,738
Nuclear 61,610
Electrical/electronics and communications 60,125
Mechanical 58,766
Industrial/manufacturing 58,358
Materials 57,349
Aerospace/aeronautical/astronautical 56,311
Agricultural 54,352
Bioengineering and biomedical 54,158
Civil 52,048
--LinkRemoved--
And people who report these numbers often lie and say they make more than they do, and just like law school numbers lots of graduates don't respond. Drink some more kool aid people...

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merichard87
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby merichard87 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:45 pm

Those statistics of starting salaries will not change the fact that companies are paying engineers straight out of UG $60k - $65k. I can only speak from my experiences of course and they may be skewed because I live in Texas and the economy here has not been as affected as some other states but the national stats are definitely very low in comparison to the offers my classmates (in all GPA ranges) have gotten.

Edit: Why are you talking about the auto companies? They do not employ every engineer.
Last edited by merichard87 on Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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A'nold
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby A'nold » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:45 pm

TheRagingBull wrote:
A'nold wrote:See my extremely funny and witty post that nobody commented on.


I didn't get it... sorry.

Now you'll have to explain your joke and we all know that explaining jokes simply ruins them. :wink:


You see this mollusk walks up to a sea cucumber and says.......

sumus romani
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby sumus romani » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:48 pm

Before this thread got sidetracked, there was some great advice. The important thing is to have an idea of the kind of law school you can get into before you decide to attend (take a few practice tests and study a bit, then time yourself on one that counts for you or take an official LSAT). Having this attitude is extremely important and will potentially save you from attending a TTT and failing at life, when you have really good alternatives.

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merichard87
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby merichard87 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:49 pm

A'nold wrote:
TheRagingBull wrote:
A'nold wrote:See my extremely funny and witty post that nobody commented on.


I didn't get it... sorry.

Now you'll have to explain your joke and we all know that explaining jokes simply ruins them. :wink:


You see this mollusk walks up to a sea cucumber and says.......



I got your joke A'Nold. I wish DeVry and Everest would stop selling people dreams and give them some marketable skills.

hank44
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby hank44 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:50 pm

ending sidetrack...

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holydonkey
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby holydonkey » Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:58 pm

TheRagingBull wrote:
A'nold wrote:See my extremely funny and witty post that nobody commented on.


I didn't get it... sorry.

Now you'll have to explain your joke and we all know that explaining jokes simply ruins them. :wink:
Image

Edit: To add logo. :D
Last edited by holydonkey on Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.

TheRagingBull
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby TheRagingBull » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:00 pm

sumus romani wrote:Before this thread got sidetracked, there was some great advice. The important thing is to have an idea of the kind of law school you can get into before you decide to attend (take a few practice tests and study a bit, then time yourself on one that counts for you or take an official LSAT). Having this attitude is extremely important and will potentially save you from attending a TTT and failing at life, when you have really good alternatives.


So you're saying that graduating from a TTT would not provide a higher income than my current route with construction management? Do you have any numbers that show what TTT graduates are making? That is the the information that I am ultimately trying to find out.

TheRagingBull
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Re: In it for the money?

Postby TheRagingBull » Thu Apr 29, 2010 4:01 pm

holydonkey wrote:
TheRagingBull wrote:
A'nold wrote:See my extremely funny and witty post that nobody commented on.


I didn't get it... sorry.

Now you'll have to explain your joke and we all know that explaining jokes simply ruins them. :wink:
Image


Now THAT is funny.




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