Ivy League Advantage

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mleibman
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby mleibman » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:12 am

BigFatPanda wrote:
mleibman wrote:Reported for what? You were the one who was out of line.


I think he was just playing around


Yeah.. I got that now. I am new, as you can see.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:13 am

BigFatPanda wrote:I think its a fair statement:

Image

Given a certain mean/average value, the statistical probability of 50% being below that value and 50% above that value is more likely than not.

It's not a fair statement. You make an unwarranted assumption, that the scores of UPenn students follow a Gaussian curve. First, LSATs aren't even curved to a bell (+/- 1 stddev above and below the median are not equidistant from each other). Second, looking at the LSAT distribution of students from my college who applied to law school from my LSAT report 2 years ago, the distribution is heavily skewed in one direction.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:17 am

So glad I have a liberal arts degree, it's worth being completely unemployable since I got to avoid having to learn this stuff.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby BigFatPanda » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:18 am

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:It's not a fair statement. You make an unwarranted assumption, that the scores of UPenn students follow a Gaussian curve. First, LSATs aren't even curved to a bell (+/- 1 stddev above and below the median are not equidistant from each other). Second, looking at the LSAT distribution of students from my college who applied to law school from my LSAT report 2 years ago, the distribution is heavily skewed in one direction.


From a purely mathematic point of view, median and mean are totally two different concepts because mathematics do not assume a gaussian bell curve to be applicable in most theoretical scenarios.

--ImageRemoved--

However, in the world of engineering (which i believe Desert Fox is familiar with because he is an EE), almost every statistical problem (because the stochastic/random nature of it) can be approximate by a bell curve like the one i've shown (If that assumption is not made, none of us would make out of Probability and Stochastic Process with a passing grade). So from an engineering stand point, Desert Fox's statement is fair. Its really just a matter of perspective and what one is use to given one's background.
Last edited by BigFatPanda on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:24 am, edited 2 times in total.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:19 am

D. H2Oman wrote:
mleibman wrote:Reported for what? You were the one who was out of line.

You must excuse my friend, he is an engineer....women aren't exactly his forte. Give him a logic game though, and he'll destroy it.

On the contrary, the only T&A you ever get is prepubescent type your degree in education gets you in contact with.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:21 am

x
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Thu May 06, 2010 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:22 am

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Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Thu May 06, 2010 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

APimpNamedSlickback
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby APimpNamedSlickback » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:23 am

x
Last edited by APimpNamedSlickback on Thu May 06, 2010 6:27 am, edited 1 time in total.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:23 am

BigFatPanda wrote:From a purely mathematic point of view, median and mean are totally two different concepts because mathematics do not assume a gaussian bell curve to be applicable in most theoretical scenarios.

--ImageRemoved--

Please do not insult my intelligence by quoting graphs at me.

However, in the world of engineering (which i believe Desert Fox is familiar with because he is an EE), almost every statistical problem can be approximate by a bell curve like the one i've shown. So from an engineering stand point, Desert Fox's statement is fair.

The world of engineering? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? As a person who earned a degre in a field of study almost entirely devoted to solving problems, making unwarranted and ultimately false assumptions about the statistical likelihood of a situation has the potential for unmitigated disaster, see the Columbia shuttle, please.

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D. H2Oman
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby D. H2Oman » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:23 am

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
D. H2Oman wrote:
mleibman wrote:Reported for what? You were the one who was out of line.

You must excuse my friend, he is an engineer....women aren't exactly his forte. Give him a logic game though, and he'll destroy it.

On the contrary, the only T&A you ever get is prepubescent type your degree in education gets you in contact with.



Hey now that's unfair. It's not my BA in Education that has made me desperately lonely and likely to remain that way; it's my off putting looks and personality.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:27 am

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:so i was fundamentally correct in pointing out df's error. thank you for the apology.

Who knows what DF meant by 'average'. Maybe he wanted to discuss the geometric mean in order to properly calculate the rate at which your ego increases on a day to day basis.

D. H2Oman wrote:Hey now that's unfair. It's not my BA in Education that has made me desperately lonely and likely to remain that way; it's my off putting looks and personality.

Well at least you have that girlfriend who lives in Canada.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby BigFatPanda » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:30 am

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:
BigFatPanda wrote:From a purely mathematic point of view, median and mean are totally two different concepts because mathematics do not assume a gaussian bell curve to be applicable in most theoretical scenarios.

--ImageRemoved--

Please do not insult my intelligence by quoting graphs at me.

However, in the world of engineering (which i believe Desert Fox is familiar with because he is an EE), almost every statistical problem can be approximate by a bell curve like the one i've shown. So from an engineering stand point, Desert Fox's statement is fair.

The world of engineering? What the fuck is that supposed to mean? As a person who earned a degre in a field of study almost entirely devoted to solving problems, making unwarranted and ultimately false assumptions about the statistical likelihood of a situation has the potential for unmitigated disaster, see the Columbia shuttle, please.



The graphs were for illustration purposes only and there are other people on this forum other than just you (After all, you were asking for more information to educate the general public). BTW, i just edited my previous thread. I don't know what type of problems you were solving, but in communications engineering, due to random nature of electric signals, gaussian curve is often employ to approximate possible system responses. In that limited sense, making assumptions that gaussian curve could fit the scenarios has been statistically proven to be valid and thus warranted.

Of course, unwarranted assumption is dangerous if you apply it in all general scenarios (BTW, i believe all systems in space shuttles at one point or another are tested through trial and error where assumptions, even dangerous ones, are made until a workable system comes into being). Bear in mind though, recent shuttle disasters are due to a combination of lack of funding and design fault with the original layout of heat dampening materials.

Again, i am merely saying, given DF's training and background, the statement he made was fair.

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:38 am

BigFatPanda wrote:The graphs were for illustration purposes only and there are other people on this forum other than just you (After all, you were asking for more information to educate the general public). BTW, i just edited my previous thread. I don't know what type of problems you were solving, but in communications engineering, due to random nature of electric signals, gaussian curve is often employ to approximate possible system responses. In that limited sense, making assumptions that gaussian curve could fit the scenarios has been statistically proven to be valid.

Of course, that kind of assumption is dangerous if you apply it in all general scenarios.

Again, i am merely saying, given DF's training and background, the statement he made was fair.

Decades of experimental data has likely justified assuming whatever you're doing approximates a normal curve. However, casting assumptions on a single value to be indicative of a normal population while lacking any other circumstantial evidence, when there are ample reasons to believe to the contrary, is not something anyone should do. It is especially not something an engineer should do.

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holydonkey
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby holydonkey » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:40 am

Die thread die.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby BigFatPanda » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:46 am

Leeroy Jenkins wrote:Decades of experimental data has likely justified assuming whatever you're doing approximates a normal curve. However, casting assumptions on a single value to be indicative of a normal population while lacking any other circumstantial evidence, when there are ample reasons to believe to the contrary, is not something anyone should do. It is especially not something an engineer should do.


I completely agree with what you're saying and i do not dispute the truth of your statement.

Also, i didn't say Desert Fox's statement was correct. I merely said its fair (because EE are literally forced to rely on Gaussian Distribution to approach a good chunk of problems we deal with) given what he is use to (base on my own EE experience).

Thus, the point is, the lapse of judgment is not because of poor state education; rather, its just an understandable force of habit.

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Unemployed
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby Unemployed » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:54 am

Jesus christ dude. He's a smart kid who slipped up and said a stupid thing. Why are you "educating" the general public on simple statistical concepts that they all should have learned in high school anyway? Why are you talking about NASA space shuttle disasters?

Leeroy Jenkins
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby Leeroy Jenkins » Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:54 am

This entire argument is pointless because you don't even know for sure that DF meant 'mean' when he said 'average'. He could very well have used average in the sense of median, since average should equate to whichever statistic is the best indicator of the expected value in a population. In most situations that statistic is the median.

Unemployed wrote:Jesus christ dude. He's a smart kid who slipped up and said a stupid thing. Why are you "educating" the general public on simple statistical concepts that they all should have learned in high school anyway? Why are you talking about NASA space shuttle disasters?

How do you calculate an average growth?
Last edited by Leeroy Jenkins on Wed Apr 28, 2010 8:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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MGH1989
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby MGH1989 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 7:57 pm

GermxSmokehouse wrote:I attend an ivy league school, but my GPA (3.3) is too low to get into some of the top schools. I have heard that no boost is given to ivy league or similarly prestigious diplomas. I'm worried that, if I were to attend law school, I would be much smarter than my peers who attended schools with less qualified students (and therefore easier curves, etc). I don't want to be surrounded by morons--that's why I decided to go to an ivy league school after all. So what do you think, are the students with average gpas who attend schools like Arizona State morons compared to an average ivy league graduate?

I know it might sound like I'm being "douchey", but in my personal experiences, students from state schools aren't nearly as intelligent as my peers in the ivy league, and I find it hard to believe that their GPA is equally qualifying. Any anecdotes are appreciated.


Don't worry, that post wasn't the least bit narcissistic

09042014
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Re: Ivy League Advantage

Postby 09042014 » Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:27 pm

APimpNamedSlickback wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
BigFatPanda wrote:
GermxSmokehouse wrote: I know it might sound like I'm being "douchey", but in my personal experiences, students from state schools aren't nearly as intelligent as my peers in the ivy league, and I find it hard to believe that their GPA is equally qualifying. Any anecdotes are appreciated.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Doesn't Ivy League school practice GPA inflations? Oh yeah, how many legacies and rich people's kids did your school admit last year?

Don't worry about your 3.3, get your daddy to donate $10 million to Harvard or Yale, i am sure they will let you in if you score above 160.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/attorney32


The average for UPenn is only 163. So half of UPenn students who take the LSAT score under 163. LOL Brilliant minds my ass.


itt: df outs himself as not knowing the difference between a median and an average. the value of a state-school education on full display, people.


Average can either refer to the mean, median or mode. You would have learned that at a decent private school, instead of the raging southern TTT you went to.




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