Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

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r6_philly
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby r6_philly » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:31 pm

BigFatPanda wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I may also start a chain of personal injury/general practitioner shops and hire local T3/4 grads to staff it. :wink:

and i thought you were cool..... :(


Haha ok I am sorry I gave the wrong idea. Someone has to provide jobs to those grads right? Ok maybe not PI, but I know I can get good business doing immigration, estate, family, traffic and real estate representation. I wouldn't do it personally but the market is here.

The difference is that my firm would handle stuff with integrity and not rip people off... legal representation is lacking in poor areas and my goal is to help people. So affordable lawyers who are compassionate and honest should be an asset to the community. :D We are going to be good lawyers.

tesoro
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby tesoro » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:33 pm

r6_philly wrote:
BigFatPanda wrote:
r6_philly wrote:I may also start a chain of personal injury/general practitioner shops and hire local T3/4 grads to staff it. :wink:

and i thought you were cool..... :(


Haha ok I am sorry I gave the wrong idea. Someone has to provide jobs to those grads right? Ok maybe not PI, but I know I can get good business doing immigration, estate, family, traffic and real estate representation. I wouldn't do it personally but the market is here.

The difference is that my firm would handle stuff with integrity and not rip people off... legal representation is lacking in poor areas and my goal is to help people. So affordable lawyers who are compassionate and honest should be an asset to the community. :D We are going to be good lawyers.


...until you realize how much the bottom line can increase when you turn bad. The dark side will always be calling, my friend.

r6_philly
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby r6_philly » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:39 pm

tesoro wrote:...until you realize how much the bottom line can increase when you turn bad. The dark side will always be calling, my friend.


Not for me. I could have been a million dollars or more richer if I wanted to turn to the dark side, and I never did cross over. I was tempted by so many different things. I doubt the possiblity of increasing the net profit by 50% is going to be much temptation. 8) my integrity, self-esteem and conscience cannot be bought with money, no matter what amount.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby BigFatPanda » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:44 pm

r6_philly wrote:
tesoro wrote:...until you realize how much the bottom line can increase when you turn bad. The dark side will always be calling, my friend.


Not for me. I could have been a million dollars or more richer if I wanted to turn to the dark side, and I never did cross over. I was tempted by so many different things. I doubt the possiblity of increasing the net profit by 50% is going to be much temptation. 8) my integrity, self-esteem and conscience cannot be bought with money, no matter what amount.


In this age when even Monks (those with $$$ dnoated from people of all kinds for all reasons) are driving BMW and having mistresses on the side (not to mention those Goldmen Sachs executives who bankrupt nations just to earn a measley billion), your integrity, self-esteem and conscience must be made of solidified carbon (diamond grade) or Titanium alloy

r6_philly
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby r6_philly » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:55 pm

BigFatPanda wrote:In this age when even Monks (those with $$$ dnoated from people of all kinds for all reasons) are driving BMW and having mistresses on the side (not to mention those Goldmen Sachs executives who bankrupt nations just to earn a measley billion), your integrity, self-esteem and conscience must be made of solidified carbon (diamond grade) or Titanium alloy


Tungsten carbide!

Organized religion has always been aimed at raising profit. Sometimes the profit is spent on worth cause, sometimes not. You can observe in the poorest of all areas most of the nicely kept, well maintained buildings are churches.

Don't get me wrong, I will have my material worth, but I want to earn it fairly (I know I am capable).

As a chain of business, you can achieve great financial success if you can stand out and provide better service, have loyal customers and make it big on volume. I don't need to rip people off to make good profit. I think a chain of well received firms will provide good, needed service to the local residents and provide decent, stable jobs to local law school grads, while I make good money running the business.

JOThompson
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby JOThompson » Tue Apr 27, 2010 2:35 pm

BigFatPanda wrote:
jcl2 wrote:I'm pretty sure it's 3 miles in 28 minutes, if it were 18 there would only be competitive distance runners in the military :lol:


Sweet, there is hope for me.....now, i need to work on doing 20 pull-ups.

JAG PT requirements are pretty lenient, except for the Marines. You're looking at 20 pullups, three miles in 18 minutes, and I think 100 crunches for a perfect score there. 13-15, 22 minutes, 100 crunches and you're competitive for a JAG slot. The other branches don't emphasize physical requirements nearly as much for their JAGs.

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jcl2
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby jcl2 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:22 pm

JOThompson wrote:
BigFatPanda wrote:
jcl2 wrote:I'm pretty sure it's 3 miles in 28 minutes, if it were 18 there would only be competitive distance runners in the military :lol:


Sweet, there is hope for me.....now, i need to work on doing 20 pull-ups.

JAG PT requirements are pretty lenient, except for the Marines. You're looking at 20 pullups, three miles in 18 minutes, and I think 100 crunches for a perfect score there. 13-15, 22 minutes, 100 crunches and you're competitive for a JAG slot. The other branches don't emphasize physical requirements nearly as much for their JAGs.


Not sure why I care about this but here is what the Navy uses: http://www.jag.navy.mil/careers_/careers/docs/PRT.pdf Looks like for the run they use a 1.5 mile run and 8:55 would be a perfect score on the run for a 25-29 year old man, while 13:45 would get you a satisfactory. Most fit people could run a 13:45 mile and a half, but very, very few could do 8:55, even many very good athletes could not run that fast. Anyway, for JAG corps, I'm pretty sure you just have to meet the minimum standards.

stillWaiting23
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby stillWaiting23 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:36 pm

JOThompson wrote:
BigFatPanda wrote:
jcl2 wrote:I'm pretty sure it's 3 miles in 28 minutes, if it were 18 there would only be competitive distance runners in the military :lol:


Sweet, there is hope for me.....now, i need to work on doing 20 pull-ups.

JAG PT requirements are pretty lenient, except for the Marines. You're looking at 20 pullups, three miles in 18 minutes, and I think 100 crunches for a perfect score there. 13-15, 22 minutes, 100 crunches and you're competitive for a JAG slot. The other branches don't emphasize physical requirements nearly as much for their JAGs.


This is (sort of) wrong. In order to get a perfect 300, you need 3 miles (actually more like 5K, depending on the base) in 18:00 (lol @ 28:00), 20 pull-ups, 100 crunches. In order to get a 225 (minimum score you can get and still be in the top bracket) you don't need to do as well. Every ten seconds slower on your run is -1 point, every pullup under 20 is -5, and every situp under 100 is -1.


If you are exceedingly bad in any event, though, that's bad, even if you make up for it in the other three. 28:00 gets you kicked out of the corps for being fat and slow.

Girl's requirements are different.

Edit: That's for the corps. No idea about other branches.

Flanker1067
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby Flanker1067 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:42 pm

Hmm suddenly this doesn't sound as good. 18 is pretty quick. I might be able to do it though. 20 pull ups, good there but barely. Do the sit-ups have a tight time req? If so, I am fucked.

Now that I think about it, there is no way I will break 19:30 ish.

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jcl2
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby jcl2 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:49 pm

stillWaiting23 wrote:
JOThompson wrote:
BigFatPanda wrote:
jcl2 wrote:I'm pretty sure it's 3 miles in 28 minutes, if it were 18 there would only be competitive distance runners in the military :lol:


Sweet, there is hope for me.....now, i need to work on doing 20 pull-ups.

JAG PT requirements are pretty lenient, except for the Marines. You're looking at 20 pullups, three miles in 18 minutes, and I think 100 crunches for a perfect score there. 13-15, 22 minutes, 100 crunches and you're competitive for a JAG slot. The other branches don't emphasize physical requirements nearly as much for their JAGs.


This is (sort of) wrong. In order to get a perfect 300, you need 3 miles (actually more like 5K, depending on the base) in 18:00 (lol @ 28:00), 20 pull-ups, 100 crunches. In order to get a 225 (minimum score you can get and still be in the top bracket) you don't need to do as well. Every ten seconds slower on your run is -1 point, every pullup under 20 is -5, and every situp under 100 is -1.


If you are exceedingly bad in any event, though, that's bad, even if you make up for it in the other three. 28:00 gets you kicked out of the corps for being fat and slow.

Girl's requirements are different.

Edit: That's for the corps. No idea about other branches.


I don't know why we are arguing this, but for a 17-26 year old male the minimum requirement for the run in the Marine corps is 28 minutes. http://www.usmc.mil/news/publications/Documents/MCO%20P6100.12%20W%20CH%201.pdf See page 2-9.

9:20 mile pace for three miles is not that fast, but is not slow either, it is a pretty reasonable standard for requiring a minimum level of fitness. 18 minutes would be crazy, lots of people could never run 3 miles that fast regardless of how hard they trained.

edit: Page G-2 breaks down the scoring system.
Last edited by jcl2 on Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Flanker1067
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby Flanker1067 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:51 pm

I think you guys are talking about different things. ^^^ are talking about min req's, whereas the other guy is talking about a perfect score. 18' is for a perfect score, of course they can't require that.

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jcl2
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby jcl2 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:57 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:I think you guys are talking about different things. ^^^ are talking about min req's, whereas the other guy is talking about a perfect score. 18' is for a perfect score, of course they can't require that.


You are right, but no-one is going to expect someone in the JAG corps to have a perfect score, you will just need to meet the minimum requirements, so why is anyone talking about perfect scores.

Flanker1067
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby Flanker1067 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 3:59 pm

jcl2 wrote:
Flanker1067 wrote:I think you guys are talking about different things. ^^^ are talking about min req's, whereas the other guy is talking about a perfect score. 18' is for a perfect score, of course they can't require that.


You are right, but no-one is going to expect someone in the JAG corps to have a perfect score, you will just need to meet the minimum requirements, so why is anyone talking about perfect scores.


Good question. I am interested anyway because I don't know shit about JAG or the military in general.

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BigFatPanda
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby BigFatPanda » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:06 pm

JAG nerds.....we just hijack this thread.

Flanker, if you are interested, see this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=31543

stillWaiting23
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby stillWaiting23 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:06 pm

Flanker1067 wrote:
jcl2 wrote:
Flanker1067 wrote:I think you guys are talking about different things. ^^^ are talking about min req's, whereas the other guy is talking about a perfect score. 18' is for a perfect score, of course they can't require that.


You are right, but no-one is going to expect someone in the JAG corps to have a perfect score, you will just need to meet the minimum requirements, so why is anyone talking about perfect scores.


Good question. I am interested anyway because I don't know shit about JAG or the military in general.


First, let me say that I am only talking about the Corps. To them, every Marine is a rifleman first. The commandant has to pass his PT test. Your goal needs to be 225+. Anything less than that, and they start worrying about you being out of shape. The scores I listed above are perfect; most people don't get them. If you are comfortably above the 225 cutoff, you are fine. I can't break 19:40 no matter how hard I train, but that's fine, because I've never not gotten 100/20 on the other two. If you are below 225 total, or really bad (28:00 is really bad) in one category, it will go on your record at one point or another, and that's not good. They break it into score ranges. 225-300 and you are good. 225-175 and that's not so good, and it can reflect badly on you. Less than that, and your career is in jeapordy [sp?].

I don't know about the other branches. I expect they don't have the rigid requirements, because they don't view it as 'every member in our branch is a rifleman, even the lawyers'.

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jcl2
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby jcl2 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 4:15 pm

stillWaiting23 wrote:
Flanker1067 wrote:
jcl2 wrote:
Flanker1067 wrote:I think you guys are talking about different things. ^^^ are talking about min req's, whereas the other guy is talking about a perfect score. 18' is for a perfect score, of course they can't require that.


You are right, but no-one is going to expect someone in the JAG corps to have a perfect score, you will just need to meet the minimum requirements, so why is anyone talking about perfect scores.


Good question. I am interested anyway because I don't know shit about JAG or the military in general.


First, let me say that I am only talking about the Corps. To them, every Marine is a rifleman first. The commandant has to pass his PT test. Your goal needs to be 225+. Anything less than that, and they start worrying about you being out of shape. The scores I listed above are perfect; most people don't get them. If you are comfortably above the 225 cutoff, you are fine. I can't break 19:40 no matter how hard I train, but that's fine, because I've never not gotten 100/20 on the other two. If you are below 225 total, or really bad (28:00 is really bad) in one category, it will go on your record at one point or another, and that's not good. They break it into score ranges. 225-300 and you are good. 225-175 and that's not so good, and it can reflect badly on you. Less than that, and your career is in jeapordy [sp?].

I don't know about the other branches. I expect they don't have the rigid requirements, because they don't view it as 'every member in our branch is a rifleman, even the lawyers'.


It looks like a 225 would take 15 pull ups, 75 crunches, and a 22:10 3 miles. That is pretty reasonable. From what I have heard the other branches are not as strict with PFTs for JAG corps.

Personally, I'm really only interested in Coast Guard and Navy, primarily because of the potential locations where I could be stationed. I can run a sub 18 minute 5k though.

testyinnyc
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby testyinnyc » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:43 am

a good friend of mine started off in the general practice of a BigLaw firm, put in the crazy hours the first two years and now works as a tax associate and averages about 40-50 hours a week. She rarely works weekends which is another plus.

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pleasetryagain
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby pleasetryagain » Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:39 am

jcl2 wrote:you will just need to meet the minimum requirements, so why is anyone talking about perfect scores.



it's TLS..

ArmyVet07
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby ArmyVet07 » Wed Apr 28, 2010 9:01 am

Just in case anyone is interested in the Army's physical fitness standards, a good explanation can be found here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Army_Physical_Fitness_Test

Soldiers perform a 2-mile run and 2 minutes each of push-ups and sit-ups.

JOThompson
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby JOThompson » Wed Apr 28, 2010 10:46 am

you will just need to meet the minimum requirements, so why is anyone talking about perfect scores.

No one really makes into Marine OCS with the minimums anymore. I researched this pretty well, I was actually a PLC ground candidate for a bit. First class is 225 and above, but to have a decent shot at OCS lately, most Officer Selection Officers recommend a score in the 260s-270s (back in 2006 when I applied). Nearly every man in your OCS/PLC class will have a perfect ab score, at least 21 minutes on the run, and usually somewhere between 12-16 pullups IIRC. I think girls just have the flexed arm hang substituted for the pullups.

I looked into the other branches too but can't recall much other than that Army JAGs tend to do more physical training than USAF and Navy.

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beef wellington
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Re: Is there such a thing as working 40 hours a week as a lawyer

Postby beef wellington » Fri Apr 30, 2010 1:19 am

Anyone know how many hours to expect in a PI job? I'm sure it varies. I'm thinking like a policy-oriented nonprofit.




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