Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

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JOThompson
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby JOThompson » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:54 pm

Just curious, what is your GPA? Have you tried any LSAT practice tests yet?

Danteshek
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby Danteshek » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:55 pm

I didn't see you were an engineer. That will be a huge plus if you don't mind staying on the technical side of things. Also, your work experience will help. I'm not sure whether that will be enough though. You still have to perform very well in law school. An online MBA has no place on your resume. The knowledge will help, but you don't want to advertise it.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Fri Apr 23, 2010 11:58 pm

MurderafterMidnight wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
MurderafterMidnight wrote:
Danteshek wrote:This depends on what your other options are, how strong your resume is, and what your goals are.

Well I would like big law or at least higher mid law


Assuming your resume is weak (you don't have significant relevant experience, or, for example, PhD looking into patent law), you are setting yourself up for failure. Not having a clear idea of what you want to do, coupled with your utter cluelessness and a T3 law degree, means you don't have much chance of success.

FYI I attend a T3.

Well honestly man I would not say I am utterly clueless wow, tough crowd here. I have been a engineer at a top communication company for the past 3 years, I don't have a phd but I do do have a online MBA degree. I would like to be a attorney but I was concerned with the risk that's why I asked for some input. Engineering is great but I'm not sure I want to do it the rest of my life and I would like to have the options open to me.


Dude, excuse some of the tough internet warriors in this forum. This place is known for elitism. When you ask for advice from law students, keep in mind that they are devil's advocates. Only until law students become lawyers can they be seen as something other than a devil's advocate.

Peace. Don't let these pussies get to you, lol.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:08 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:This place is known for elitism.

This place is known for some hostile attitudes, in appropriate comments, and bad behavior. However, it's also known for being brutally honest, especially about the fact that ITE the job options from a TTT or T4 school are generally very poor and it is generally an unwise investment of time or money to go to one. Specific circumstances might exist where a TTT makes sense, but OP hasn't presented any such circumstances, and until then the general consensus in this thread that a TTT or T4 is likely not worth going to right now in any kind of Biglaw/Midlaw context is good advice.

LoyolaLaw2012
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby LoyolaLaw2012 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:12 am

*Fourth

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:15 am

vanwinkle wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:This place is known for elitism.

This place is known for some hostile attitudes, in appropriate comments, and bad behavior. However, it's also known for being brutally honest, especially about the fact that ITE the job options from a TTT or T4 school are generally very poor and it is generally an unwise investment of time or money to go to one. Specific circumstances might exist where a TTT makes sense, but OP hasn't presented any such circumstances, and until then the general consensus in this thread that a TTT or T4 is likely not worth going to right now in any kind of Biglaw/Midlaw context is good advice.


I write this making no assumptions of any kind.
Let it be known I have not graded the "advice" in terms of "good" or "bad".
I simply provided a caveat that should be kept in mind when posting on this forum.
Thrash away. If OP takes the beating, he deserves to post on TLS.

JOThompson
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby JOThompson » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:19 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:This place is known for elitism.

This place is known for some hostile attitudes, in appropriate comments, and bad behavior. However, it's also known for being brutally honest, especially about the fact that ITE the job options from a TTT or T4 school are generally very poor and it is generally an unwise investment of time or money to go to one. Specific circumstances might exist where a TTT makes sense, but OP hasn't presented any such circumstances, and until then the general consensus in this thread that a TTT or T4 is likely not worth going to right now in any kind of Biglaw/Midlaw context is good advice.


I write this making no assumptions of any kind.
Let it be known I have not graded the "advice" in terms of "good" or "bad".
I simply provided a caveat that should be kept in mind when posting on this forum.
Thrash away. If OP takes the beating, he deserves to post on TLS.

"Pussies" and "internet warriors" were a couple of the more interesting words from your post. There are some strong negative connotations at work there. Are you sure you haven't judged the advice?

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A'nold
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby A'nold » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:22 am

MurderafterMidnight wrote:
Danteshek wrote:
MurderafterMidnight wrote:
Danteshek wrote:Well I would like big law or at least higher mid law


Assuming your resume is weak (you don't have significant relevant experience, or, for example, PhD looking into patent law), you are setting yourself up for failure. Not having a clear idea of what you want to do, coupled with your utter cluelessness and a T3 law degree, means you don't have much chance of success.

FYI I attend a T3.

Well honestly man I would not say I am utterly clueless wow, tough crowd here. I have been a engineer at a top communication company for the past 3 years, I don't have a phd but I do do have a online MBA degree. I would like to be a attorney but I was concerned with the risk that's why I asked for some input. Engineering is great but I'm not sure I want to do it the rest of my life and I would like to have the options open to me.


Dude, excuse some of the tough internet warriors in this forum. This place is known for elitism. When you ask for advice from law students, keep in mind that they are devil's advocates. Only until law students become lawyers can they be seen as something other than a devil's advocate.

Peace. Don't let these pussies get to you, lol.


Srsly? SRSLY? Dude, I go to a freaking t3 school and so does danteshek, uh.....hello? What the hell is elitist about what we said? I actually think the advice in this thread has been very good and not "lulz eatin out of a dumpzter Mickey deez 4 u." This is the thread you choose to attack for elitism? Wow.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:29 am

A'nold wrote:Srsly? SRSLY? Dude, I go to a freaking t3 school and so does danteshek, uh.....hello? What the hell is elitist about what we said? I actually think the advice in this thread has been very good and not "lulz eatin out of a dumpzter Mickey deez 4 u." This is the thread you choose to attack for elitism? Wow.


In case you missed it:

I write this making no assumptions of any kind.
Let it be known I have not graded the "advice" in terms of "good" or "bad".
I simply provided a caveat that should be kept in mind when posting on this forum.
Thrash away. If OP takes the beating, he deserves to post on TLS.


Bye.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:38 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:I simply provided a caveat that should be kept in mind when posting on this forum.

In other words, you were just restating the obvious. The thing is, the obvious doesn't need to be restated, because it's obvious.

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A'nold
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby A'nold » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:44 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:
A'nold wrote:Srsly? SRSLY? Dude, I go to a freaking t3 school and so does danteshek, uh.....hello? What the hell is elitist about what we said? I actually think the advice in this thread has been very good and not "lulz eatin out of a dumpzter Mickey deez 4 u." This is the thread you choose to attack for elitism? Wow.


In case you missed it:

I write this making no assumptions of any kind.
Let it be known I have not graded the "advice" in terms of "good" or "bad".
I simply provided a caveat that should be kept in mind when posting on this forum.
Thrash away. If OP takes the beating, he deserves to post on TLS.


Bye.


Yeah, and I also read the internet warriors and pussies thing too. Wow, you really know how to make a point don't you?

Danteshek
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby Danteshek » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:45 am

The most important qualities future TTTers need is a thick skin and a healthy dose of confidence (bordering on arrogance). How the hell else are you going to compete with the big boys?

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PDaddy
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby PDaddy » Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:53 am

JOThompson wrote:It depends on the particular school. South Texas does fairly well in Houston, much better than you'd expected of a T3/T4. The same might be said of Willamette in Salem, Oregon. If it's at all possible to retake or accumulate work experience, please do so, because you'll be a more competitive applicant at traditionally solid schools. It's just too risky to attend programs like Thomas Jefferson nowadays.


Yeah. I would say that there are a few TTT that are strong like T2's. Suffolk and Wayne State are pretty good. You have to be a "niche student", i.e., headed for a specific type of law in order to benefit from some TTT's, like Southwestern.

Coriolanus
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby Coriolanus » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:02 am

Wherever you think you can be in top 10% of your class is worth going to.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:22 am

MurderafterMidnight wrote:I'm asking because honestly i would like to know. I was blessed to have made it through undergrad and not owe anything, i would like to go to law school but the with all the articles and complaints i have been reading from recent graduates about not finding work or very low paying jobs, i am starting to be a bit more concerned. I am a URM and i have a electrical engineering degree and plan on taking the patent bar soon. My main law interest is ip. i am wondering how much this will improve my law career outlook at graduation. Also i would just honestly like to know in your opinions is any third/forth tier school worth attending. Thanks in advance.


Check out this link. I believe there is an attorney that specializes in IP. Try searching for that person and contacting them.

http://www.superlawyers.com/lawschool/W ... =&lss=&p=1

You are getting a limited perspective by simply focusing on what is stated in this forum, if indeed you choose to consider what is stated here.

Whittier Law is a fourth tier school that I do not attend.

Keep in mind that attorneys are busy people and might not help you so readily. It might take a few tries for them to even speak to you. If you can take the harsh words here, then you should be fine speaking to attorneys in the field of law that you desire to specialize in.

Good luck.

Update:

I found the guy that practices IP.

Here is the link directly to him
http://www.superlawyers.com/california- ... e69b9.html

He graduated from Whittier Law.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:32 am

vanwinkle wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:I simply provided a caveat that should be kept in mind when posting on this forum.

In other words, you were just restating the obvious. The thing is, the obvious doesn't need to be restated, because it's obvious.


I had no idea we had an understanding as to what is obvious on this forum. Maybe I missed it by not reading the FAQs.

Thanks for helping me out. You are too kind.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby vanwinkle » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:34 am

SwollenMonkey wrote:I had no idea we had an understanding as to what is obvious on this forum.

You don't need an understanding as to what's obvious. It's obvious what's obvious. That's what makes it obvious.

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Panther7
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby Panther7 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:38 am

i can't believe this conversation is still going, lol.

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A'nold
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby A'nold » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:38 am

vanwinkle wrote:
SwollenMonkey wrote:I had no idea we had an understanding as to what is obvious on this forum.

You don't need an understanding as to what's obvious. It's obvious what's obvious. That's what makes it obvious.


Obviously. 8)

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A'nold
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby A'nold » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:39 am

Panther7 wrote:i can't believe [strike]this conversation is still going,[/strike] that that guy is so retarded, lol.


Ftfy.

Danteshek
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby Danteshek » Sat Apr 24, 2010 1:44 am

I actually know one of those Whittier super lawyers you linked to (Kanin). His son was my classmate in high school and a Loyola law grad. Like his father, he is very successful in solo practice (probate litigation). Notice how all the super lawyers from Whittier are in solo practice or in small firms.

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SwollenMonkey
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby SwollenMonkey » Sat Apr 24, 2010 2:03 am

Danteshek wrote:I actually know one of those Whittier super lawyers you linked to (Kanin). His son was my classmate in high school and a Loyola law grad. Like his father, he is very successful in solo practice (probate litigation). Notice how all the super lawyers from Whittier are in solo practice or in small firms.


Noticed.

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legalease9
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby legalease9 » Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:41 am

To OP. It all really depends on how badly you want to practice law. Recognize that you will have really weak job prospects and will be spending a lot of money to get those really weak job prospects. You will NOT get big law, and you will probably not get mid law (which as we all know doesn't exist). So the question is... how badly do you want to practice law? I personally would NOT go to a T3 T4. I want to practice law... but not that bad! But that is just me. How bad do you want to practice law?

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Cara
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby Cara » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:01 am

Unless you already have a guaranteed job at the end and/or you are going for free or low in-state tuition then no, these schools are not worth attending.

Even if you are going for free you have no prospect of biglaw and very poor prospects of a decently-paying midlaw job. This is the reality of the current employment market where there is a gross oversupply of lawyers and shrinking demand.

Danteshek
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Re: Is a third/forth tier law school even worth going to?

Postby Danteshek » Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:07 am

TTT value proposition:

1) 90 percent of attorneys practice outside of large firms
2) Junior associates in large firms typically do not practice law in the fullest sense (doc review)
3) Vast majority of biglaw associates never make partner, sometimes after many years and without acquiring the skills necessary to be self sufficient in small firm practice
4) If you want to have more responsibility sooner, it is typically best to join a smaller firm to start your career
5) Local schools have strong local networks (cannot emphasize this enough)




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