In defense of gunning

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Unemployed
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Unemployed » Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:31 pm



My favorite is this.

--LinkRemoved--

So true.

Renzo
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Renzo » Sun Apr 25, 2010 3:19 pm

profs<3mycomments wrote:To those who feel like they are "active participants" in UG - a lot of what makes people hate gunners is a lack of respect. Everyone in the classroom is making a huge investment to enter a very competitive environment in which first year grades mean everything. They don't want to watch the professor get derailed by gunners who ask the professor absurd questions based on every errant thought. They don't want to compete with 10 gunners waving their hands when they actually have a basic clarifying question to ask. And they don't want to listen to you try to guess the next thing the professor is going to say. 1L is not the place for 80 other students to experience your intellectual journey through the law.

Rules for not being a gunner:

1) If you have taken up everyone's time with two or more questions during a class period, it's time to give others an opportunity.

2) If you find yourself not taking notes or missing a point because your hand is up, put it down for your own good. The goal is the exam and it's important.

3) EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE if your point never gets made. The universe will absorb the loss.

It's that simple folks!

Excellent.

andreea7
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby andreea7 » Tue Apr 27, 2010 11:28 am

Renzo wrote:
profs<3mycomments wrote:To those who feel like they are "active participants" in UG - a lot of what makes people hate gunners is a lack of respect. Everyone in the classroom is making a huge investment to enter a very competitive environment in which first year grades mean everything. They don't want to watch the professor get derailed by gunners who ask the professor absurd questions based on every errant thought. They don't want to compete with 10 gunners waving their hands when they actually have a basic clarifying question to ask. And they don't want to listen to you try to guess the next thing the professor is going to say. 1L is not the place for 80 other students to experience your intellectual journey through the law.

Rules for not being a gunner:

1) If you have taken up everyone's time with two or more questions during a class period, it's time to give others an opportunity.

2) If you find yourself not taking notes or missing a point because your hand is up, put it down for your own good. The goal is the exam and it's important.

3) EVERYTHING WILL BE FINE if your point never gets made. The universe will absorb the loss.

It's that simple folks!

Excellent.


Indeed! I am paying $50,000 a year to hear the professor talk not some 1L ask a question that is really a statement or a question that should not have been asked in the first place. And contrary to what some say, there is such a thing as a stupid question.

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Veyron
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:48 pm

Jericwithers wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
afghan007 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpVtqbnRatU


What worries me about this video is that their definition of gunner will force me to completely change how I operate in class. I go to a small private school with very small classes where just about everyone is expected to contribute to class discussions. Participation is almost always a part of my grade in class, either as a "bump" at the end of the semester or as an outright 10% of the grade. Asking questions and making comments is the norm, and I don't think there has been a class session all year where I haven't contributed. I know this is probably shocking to some of you state school kids... but I think most people who go to smaller schools will say this is the norm, especially in majors where discussion is empasized (like philosophy, literature, history, etc.)

I definitely don't think I have a reputation as a gunner at my undergrad and I don't plan to contribute as much in law school, but this video seems to paint anyone who speaks up as a gunner. A few of the people in the vid say that even when you have a valid or intelligent point, its still gunning. I'm one of those types of people who wants to be liked by everyone, so I plan on keeping my mouth closed as much as possible. Still, it is hard to break a habit of participation that has been ingrained into my by my professors for the last four years.


Find a few friends in your classes, participate as you wish, and then see if you can keep those friends. If you can't then you need to scale it back. Honestly, just seek honest feedback rather than worry about this before hand. If you go to Duke I'll let you know if you are being a gunner (annoying) if you ask.


Protip, if you loose friends because of something you do in class, they are prob not worth being friends with.

Renzo
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Renzo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:52 pm

Veyron wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
afghan007 wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpVtqbnRatU


What worries me about this video is that their definition of gunner will force me to completely change how I operate in class. I go to a small private school with very small classes where just about everyone is expected to contribute to class discussions. Participation is almost always a part of my grade in class, either as a "bump" at the end of the semester or as an outright 10% of the grade. Asking questions and making comments is the norm, and I don't think there has been a class session all year where I haven't contributed. I know this is probably shocking to some of you state school kids... but I think most people who go to smaller schools will say this is the norm, especially in majors where discussion is empasized (like philosophy, literature, history, etc.)

I definitely don't think I have a reputation as a gunner at my undergrad and I don't plan to contribute as much in law school, but this video seems to paint anyone who speaks up as a gunner. A few of the people in the vid say that even when you have a valid or intelligent point, its still gunning. I'm one of those types of people who wants to be liked by everyone, so I plan on keeping my mouth closed as much as possible. Still, it is hard to break a habit of participation that has been ingrained into my by my professors for the last four years.


Find a few friends in your classes, participate as you wish, and then see if you can keep those friends. If you can't then you need to scale it back. Honestly, just seek honest feedback rather than worry about this before hand. If you go to Duke I'll let you know if you are being a gunner (annoying) if you ask.


Protip, if you lose friends because of something you do in class, [strike]they[/strike]you are prob not worth being friends with.

Fixed.

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Jericwithers
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Jericwithers » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:56 pm

Renzo wrote:
Veyron wrote:Protip, if you lose friends because of something you do in class, [strike]they[/strike] you are prob not worth being friends with.

Fixed.

:lol: I would hope friends would be honest and tell you that you are being an annoying gunner and ruining their legal education, but most people are two-faced.

Renzo
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Renzo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:57 pm

Jericwithers wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Veyron wrote:Protip, if you lose friends because of something you do in class, [strike]they[/strike] you are prob not worth being friends with.

Fixed.

:lol: I would hope friends would be honest and tell you that you are being an annoying gunner and ruining their legal education, but most people are two-faced.

The problems is they tend to be shunned by normal people and make friends with each other, so there's sort of a positive-feeback loop.

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Jericwithers
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Jericwithers » Wed Apr 28, 2010 12:59 pm

Renzo wrote:
Jericwithers wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Veyron wrote:Protip, if you lose friends because of something you do in class, [strike]they[/strike] you are prob not worth being friends with.

Fixed.

:lol: I would hope friends would be honest and tell you that you are being an annoying gunner and ruining their legal education, but most people are two-faced.

The problems is they tend to be shunned by normal people and make friends with each other, so there's sort of a positive-feeback loop.


Interesting. I guess I will take one for the team and befriend them and eventually call them out on their behavior. Does it work like that, or will I inevitably become one of them?

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Veyron
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Veyron » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:50 pm

Jericwithers wrote:
Renzo wrote:
Veyron wrote:Protip, if you lose friends because of something you do in class, [strike]they[/strike] you are prob not worth being friends with.

Fixed.

:lol: I would hope friends would be honest and tell you that you are being an annoying gunner and ruining their legal education, but most people are [strike]two-faced[/strike] polite.


Honestly, its "normal" to bash people for having different learning styles, why would I want to be friends with them? I'm a hardcore kinesthetic learner which means that when I'm not participating, I'm not learning. What am I supposed to do, just sit there like a brick while my classmates learn just so I can hang out with the milquetoast looser? I for one aim to wear my gunner badge proudly. People take shit (and themselves) far too seriously.

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vanwinkle
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:59 pm

Veyron wrote:I'm a hardcore kinesthetic learner which means that when I'm not participating, I'm not learning. What am I supposed to do, just sit there like a brick while my classmates learn just so I can hang out with the milquetoast looser? I for one aim to wear my gunner badge proudly. People take shit (and themselves) far too seriously.

If your questions are relevant to the conversation, then your classmates will learn from them too. People don't generally have a problem with relevant questions. However, the odds are that if you're paying sufficient attention you're not going to have more than a couple relevant questions per class.

If you're totally incapable of learning without direct and continuous discussion, then asking a constant barrage of questions is not the only available solution. You can go talk to the professor after class, or you can bounce things off your classmates. The issue isn't people trying to deprive you of a learning style, the issue is when you take it so far with your question-making that you're depriving them of their ability to learn, and they'll be justified in reviling you for monopolizing the professor's time in ways that harm them.

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Jericwithers
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Jericwithers » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:21 pm

Wait, was I just called a milquetoast looser? :( Thats actually quite an original insult.

Renzo
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Renzo » Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:53 pm

vanwinkle wrote:If your questions are relevant to the conversation, then your classmates will learn from them too. People don't generally have a problem with relevant questions. However, the odds are that if you're paying sufficient attention you're not going to have more than a couple relevant questions per class.

If you're totally incapable of learning without direct and continuous discussion, then asking a constant barrage of questions is not the only available solution. You can go talk to the professor after class, or you can bounce things off your classmates. The issue isn't people trying to deprive you of a learning style, the issue is when you take it so far with your question-making that you're depriving them of their ability to learn, and they'll be justified in reviling you for monopolizing the professor's time in ways that harm them.

This. You need a study group. You do not need to derail the class with bizarre and time-wasting hypos.

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Veyron
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Veyron » Tue May 04, 2010 1:03 pm

So, if my hypos help me to do better but make my classmates do worse and all classes are curved... hmmmmmm. You guys are causing me to think evil evil thoughts.

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vanwinkle
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby vanwinkle » Tue May 04, 2010 1:03 pm

Veyron wrote:So, if my hypos help me to do better but make my classmates do worse and all classes are curved... hmmmmmm. You guys are causing me to think evil evil thoughts.

Your classmates will think evil thoughts of you if you act this way. They will probably also show it.

09042014
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby 09042014 » Tue May 04, 2010 1:07 pm

Veyron wrote:So, if my hypos help me to do better but make my classmates do worse and all classes are curved... hmmmmmm. You guys are causing me to think evil evil thoughts.


Such tactics are beneath me. If you are already going to be number 1 in the class it doesn't matter what everyone else does.

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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby 270910 » Tue May 04, 2010 1:41 pm

Veyron wrote:So, if my hypos help me to do better but make my classmates do worse and all classes are curved... hmmmmmm. You guys are causing me to think evil evil thoughts.


1Ls are so bad at making hypos it hurts. You would do nothing but heap scorn upon yourself and look like an idiot. Everyone would see through it 2 syllabus in the second time you tried it and start paying even more attention to gchat than they already were.

legalized
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby legalized » Tue May 04, 2010 7:10 pm

Hey-O wrote:This makes me incredibly sad and nervous. I love participating in class. It keeps me focused and interested in the material. I don't want everyone to hate me, but I also want to do well. I'm pretty sure everyone is going to call me a gunner. Is a gunner just an active participant or a jerk? But it kind of sounds like people are saying that active participants are jerks.


Shoot, i thought the gunner was the personality type that ends up in biglaw (and succeeding)...this thread just taught me something new.

I am still getting thrown off by too many uses of the word douche. It's not only used to describe assholes on this board. So now I'm a lost. Definition please?

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SaintClarence27
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby SaintClarence27 » Fri May 07, 2010 1:14 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
Veyron wrote:So, if my hypos help me to do better but make my classmates do worse and all classes are curved... hmmmmmm. You guys are causing me to think evil evil thoughts.


Such tactics are beneath me. If you are already going to be number 1 in the class it doesn't matter what everyone else does.


You'd better hope I don't get in. I'm totally a gunner. Looking forward to being Socratized.

09042014
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby 09042014 » Fri May 07, 2010 1:49 pm

SaintClarence27 wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
Veyron wrote:So, if my hypos help me to do better but make my classmates do worse and all classes are curved... hmmmmmm. You guys are causing me to think evil evil thoughts.


Such tactics are beneath me. If you are already going to be number 1 in the class it doesn't matter what everyone else does.


You'd better hope I don't get in. I'm totally a gunner. Looking forward to being Socratized.


I look forward to some worth opponents.

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rayiner
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby rayiner » Fri May 07, 2010 2:41 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Veyron wrote:So, if my hypos help me to do better but make my classmates do worse and all classes are curved... hmmmmmm. You guys are causing me to think evil evil thoughts.


1Ls are so bad at making hypos it hurts. You would do nothing but heap scorn upon yourself and look like an idiot. Everyone would see through it 2 syllabus in the second time you tried it and start paying even more attention to gchat than they already were.


Yeah, I'm a pretty big gunner but even I don't make up hypos, shit.

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SaintClarence27
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby SaintClarence27 » Fri May 07, 2010 3:00 pm

rayiner wrote:
disco_barred wrote:
Veyron wrote:So, if my hypos help me to do better but make my classmates do worse and all classes are curved... hmmmmmm. You guys are causing me to think evil evil thoughts.


1Ls are so bad at making hypos it hurts. You would do nothing but heap scorn upon yourself and look like an idiot. Everyone would see through it 2 syllabus in the second time you tried it and start paying even more attention to gchat than they already were.


Yeah, I'm a pretty big gunner but even I don't make up hypos, shit.


I'm going to try to insult people around me while I'm doing it:

What if John here was having sex with a horse, which is an illegal act, and in the process tripped over a lamp and burned his hayrick down, which in turn caught his neighbor's house on fire. Would *this* constitute proximate cause? Would the illegal horse sex constitute statutory negligence?

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Veyron
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Re: In defense of gunning

Postby Veyron » Sat May 08, 2010 11:09 pm

[/quote]

You'd better hope I don't get in. I'm totally a gunner. Looking forward to being Socratized.[/quote]

+1




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