Pre-law Hubris

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rando
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Pre-law Hubris

Postby rando » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:48 am

--LinkRemoved--

Basically, no one going in to law school thinks they will be the one at the bottom of the class or jobless.

From perusing this forum enough, I see this logical reasoning fallacy A LOT. A lot in transfer student threads. But also people justifying going to a low-ranked school and paying full price.

"Well, I don't have to go to a T14 because people in the top 10% at that school get Biglaw."

People need to think harder about going into the legal field

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby whuts4lunch » Tue Apr 13, 2010 11:56 am

Is the bottom of the class at Emory screwed? What kind of jobs would be available to someone in the bottom 30/20/10%? I, like every other pre-law student in the world, think I am a special flower and will consequently be at the top of the class wherever I choose to go. However, someone has to be at the bottom, and I am curious as to what options I would have if it was me.

Sorry I didn't get back to you about ASD.

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doinmybest
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby doinmybest » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:07 pm

When I made my decision, I evaluated my employment options assuming that I finish below the median. Expect the worst and hope for the best. Do your research before attending law school, or any huge life decision. If you don't, then I just don't feel sorry for you.

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doinmybest
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby doinmybest » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:07 pm

Phone browsing malfunction.
Last edited by doinmybest on Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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doinmybest
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby doinmybest » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:09 pm

Phone browsing malfunction.

rando
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby rando » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:13 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:Is the bottom of the class at Emory screwed? What kind of jobs would be available to someone in the bottom 30/20/10%? I, like every other pre-law student in the world, think I am a special flower and will consequently be at the top of the class wherever I choose to go. However, someone has to be at the bottom, and I am curious as to what options I would have if it was me.

Sorry I didn't get back to you about ASD.


Absolutely not. Are they screwed for biglaw? Yes. My problem is people coming in with the wrong intentions and not logically evaluating their options while taking out a boatload of debt. I have seen some heartache and disappointment from those who were biglaw or bust and unwilling to settle for "lesser" jobs.

People need to more thoroughly evaluate why they want to come to law school and the opportunities it will avail them to. And most importantly, at what cost they are willing to pay for those opportunities.

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jks289
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby jks289 » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:19 pm

This article is a bunch of nonsense. I would estimate that MOST law school grads in general will have a hard time getting a job. But I would imagine most of my actual peers graduating from T20 schools will be able to find some employment. That is both reasonable, and consistent with the 300 some students surveyed. It also assumes BigLaw is everyone's goal or even a majority goal, which is false. Many of us have structured our debt and future financial plans around the idea that we will be making PI salaries. It also assumes that the people surveyed think they will have success regardless of past academic performance. My belief I will do well is based on my past performance at a top university and general academic ability and determination. It also discounts the unfair reality that it isn't always what you know, or where you graduate from, but who you know. In part I base my belief in my employment prospects on being well-connected in the legal world. Plenty of aspiring law students making choices, not based on the idea we will sit at the median, that are in no way delusional.

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whuts4lunch
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby whuts4lunch » Tue Apr 13, 2010 12:29 pm

What kinds of legal jobs are available to the bottom at Emory? Are there any sort of clerking opportunities available (perhaps at the city level)?

Unlike JKS, I am pretty unsure of my abilities, as I didn't earn the greatest marks in high-school or college. The special flower comment I made earlier was purely in jest. However, I am taking on very little in loans, feel that my opportunity cost is not all that high, and am very interested in learning the law and clerking. So, even though I am not super confident that I'll place in the top half, I think it is worth trying.

rando
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby rando » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:03 pm

whuts4lunch wrote:What kinds of legal jobs are available to the bottom at Emory? Are there any sort of clerking opportunities available (perhaps at the city level)?

Unlike JKS, I am pretty unsure of my abilities, as I didn't earn the greatest marks in high-school or college. The special flower comment I made earlier was purely in jest. However, I am taking on very little in loans, feel that my opportunity cost is not all that high, and am very interested in learning the law and clerking. So, even though I am not super confident that I'll place in the top half, I think it is worth trying.


Basically everyone under top 1/3 has the same opportunities because that is how far Emory ranks people. You could argue everyone under top half because after first year you know the top 50% is above 3.17 (or close to it).
So basically, everything but biglaw, fed. clerkships, and highly competitive PI and Fed. stuff. State clerkships are not that hard to get, especially at the trial level.

I think you have the right outlook; small amount of debt, open to learning and a lot of different options. I am always sort of the one to underestimate my abilities at every step of the way but it always seems to work out. Know that if you got into the school you are at least as qualified as the guy next to you. So bust your ass, figure out what you're passionate about and go after it.

rando
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Re: Pre-law Hubris

Postby rando » Tue Apr 13, 2010 1:09 pm

jks289 wrote:This article is a bunch of nonsense. I would estimate that MOST law school grads in general will have a hard time getting a job. But I would imagine most of my actual peers graduating from T20 schools will be able to find some employment. That is both reasonable, and consistent with the 300 some students surveyed.


Maybe I didn't read the article closely enough but I thought the 330 students were just Kaplan students. I didn't think they were all going T20.

It also assumes BigLaw is everyone's goal or even a majority goal, which is false. Many of us have structured our debt and future financial plans around the idea that we will be making PI salaries. It also assumes that the people surveyed think they will have success regardless of past academic performance. My belief I will do well is based on my past performance at a top university and general academic ability and determination. It also discounts the unfair reality that it isn't always what you know, or where you graduate from, but who you know. In part I base my belief in my employment prospects on being well-connected in the legal world. Plenty of aspiring law students making choices, not based on the idea we will sit at the median, that are in no way delusional.


I think the above are all the same rationalizations that make whatever 90% of students think they will be successful while their peers will not. The statistics just do not back that assertion.




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