Best Law School for Texas?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:45 pm

Solerpower wrote:Wow, I leave for two days and come back to a 10 page fight, albeit very informative.

It seems to me that Kalvano doesn't quite understand the idea of self-selection and goes with raw data over interpretation.

Basically this question goes to RVP11 and Richie;

I have zero ties to Texas....zipo, nada.

Considering that fact, is Harvard the best school for Dallas, and maybe even Houston?

Followed by UVA and Duke or UT?

I don't think there's that much data out there on HYS folks without Texas ties, because it happens so very rarely that someone goes to one of those schools and then wants to work in Texas without having existing ties tothe state. I can't think of a single person I've ever spoken to in my life that fits that model.

I can say that here at UVA there seemed to be a difference between people who had Texas ties and those that didn't. The folks with Texas ties sounded like they had an easier time getting offers from Texas while the ones without weren't getting callbacks from Texas firms. I think especially ITE the Texas firms are suspicious of people just trying to go there to ride out the recession and then bailing for "better places" when hiring picks up elsewhere.

louboutin
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby louboutin » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:50 pm

So for the people saying that Penn, Cornell, etc. are better than UT for Texas, can you tell me what lead you to the decision? I am turning down a T6 for UT, because it will just be SO MUCH CHEAPER for me to go to UT. The difference is too much for me to stomach paying sticker at the T6.

Is this unwise? I would be perfectly happy working in Austin, I could probably handle Dallas or Houston as well. I would hope that i would have some degree of national portability, but obviously I know the T6 is a better choice for that.

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Solerpower
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Solerpower » Sun Apr 04, 2010 4:53 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Solerpower wrote:Wow, I leave for two days and come back to a 10 page fight, albeit very informative.

It seems to me that Kalvano doesn't quite understand the idea of self-selection and goes with raw data over interpretation.

Basically this question goes to RVP11 and Richie;

I have zero ties to Texas....zipo, nada.

Considering that fact, is Harvard the best school for Dallas, and maybe even Houston?

Followed by UVA and Duke or UT?

I don't think there's that much data out there on HYS folks without Texas ties, because it happens so very rarely that someone goes to one of those schools and then wants to work in Texas without having existing ties tothe state. I can't think of a single person I've ever spoken to in my life that fits that model.

I can say that here at UVA there seemed to be a difference between people who had Texas ties and those that didn't. The folks with Texas ties sounded like they had an easier time getting offers from Texas while the ones without weren't getting callbacks from Texas firms. I think especially ITE the Texas firms are suspicious of people just trying to go there to ride out the recession and then bailing for "better places" when hiring picks up elsewhere.


I figured that was the case with HYS.

Take someone in my position, I have a 3.75 UGPA, i'm a URM, and i'm scoring around a 165 on my PT's. I'm not POSITIVE I want to practice in Texas, but if it isn't my number 1, its 2. I either want to practice in Texas, Atlanta, or maybe Los Angeles.

Which school, outside of HYS, is best for said goal. Does Texas have the national mobility to go outside of the state, or is UVA/Michigan a better choice?

woeisme
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Re: Best lawl skool for Texas?

Postby woeisme » Sun Apr 04, 2010 6:13 pm

RVP11 wrote:
woeisme wrote:
RVP11 wrote:In all seriousness, OP:

If you have ties to TX in general (and Dallas or Houston specifically), and assuming we are talking about BigLaw, I'd say:

YHS > CCNMVPBDN (note: Virgin-ia notably places a lot in TX, CCN don't) > UT > Corneell/George-town > SMU or Houston


For someone who has just attacked someone else for writing something without "having a clue," I'm rather surprised you're posting this.


Point out how it's wrong then. In the words of Kalvano..."prove it." :roll:


Prove what? I didn't make any statement. I'm just confused why you'd attack another poster for posting something that wasn't really accurate, but then turn around and post something like this. It's clear to me that you're just using the 2009 USNWR rankings and then randomly throwing Texas in the mix there quite arbitrarily. The problem I have is your whole middle analysis. More specifically, I don't know why you're lumping CCNMVPBDN all together while separating CG. Based on the success of people I know this year, I certainly wouldn't put Northwestern before Cornell for Texas placement. Don't mean to bully you, I just think you should refrain from providing your opinion as something authoritative (when it's not). Alternatively, if you want to post crap, then bite your tongue when other people do the same thing. Ya know?

公诉人
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby 公诉人 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:04 pm

The problem I have is your whole middle analysis. More specifically, I don't know why you're lumping CCNMVPBDN all together while separating CG. Based on the success of people I know this year, I certainly wouldn't put Northwestern before Cornell for Texas placement.


he separates c and g because cg are universally considered to be the "crap" of the t14. his list is actually pretty credited. usually you pick texas over c and g due to cost. nu usually places rather well, what numbers are you using?

the lumping of ccn and mvpnd is probably more subtle anti cls trolling. hes probably lending too much importance to having "texas ties." Being from the state (and dallas in particular), I can tell you good ol' Roar-ee is certainly above the rest.
Last edited by 公诉人 on Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:06 pm

Solerpower wrote:Which school, outside of HYS, is best for said goal. Does Texas have the national mobility to go outside of the state, or is UVA/Michigan a better choice?

Texas definitely has national mobility, but not nearly as much as the T14 (or at least the T10) do. There's a difference between UVA/Michigan and UT in markets outside of Texas, and UT places 3/4 of its grads inside Texas.

I think if you're not dead-set on Texas after graduation, you should really consider going to a T10 school. UVA places well in Atlanta and Texas, which is something you should consider, and also does place some grads every year in the CA markets.

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Solerpower
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Solerpower » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:35 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Solerpower wrote:Which school, outside of HYS, is best for said goal. Does Texas have the national mobility to go outside of the state, or is UVA/Michigan a better choice?

Texas definitely has national mobility, but not nearly as much as the T14 (or at least the T10) do. There's a difference between UVA/Michigan and UT in markets outside of Texas, and UT places 3/4 of its grads inside Texas.

I think if you're not dead-set on Texas after graduation, you should really consider going to a T10 school. UVA places well in Atlanta and Texas, which is something you should consider, and also does place some grads every year in the CA markets.



How well does UVA place in Texas if you were top 10% or top 50%.

woeisme
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby woeisme » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:35 pm

公诉人 wrote:
The problem I have is your whole middle analysis. More specifically, I don't know why you're lumping CCNMVPBDN all together while separating CG. Based on the success of people I know this year, I certainly wouldn't put Northwestern before Cornell for Texas placement.


he separates c and g because cg are universally considered to be the "crap" of the t14. his list is actually pretty credited. usually you pick texas over c and g due to cost. nu usually places rather well, what numbers are you using?

the lumping of ccn and mvpnd is probably more subtle anti cls trolling. hes probably lending too much importance to having "texas ties." Being from the state (and dallas in particular), I can tell you good ol' Roar-ee is certainly above the rest.


Well, if that's his theory then it'd confirm my suspicions. The T14 tiers have fairly consistently been HYS, CCN, PVMB, DCNG. With Yale always 1 and GULC always 14. There's been a fair amount of movement back and forth over the years among the rest. I know, for example, the year I applied Duke and Cornell were tired at 11 with relatively similar statistics. I just question whether your view of Cornell and Georgetown as the crappy T14s is really just a product of the current rankings. I guess that's also why I take issue with the arbitrary distinction of "T10" (there is no set T10 - it changes yearly).

I wasn't using any numbers, just the fact that I know more than three people going to work in Texas from Cornell this year with grades across the board and with varying ties. I actually don't know anyone that wanted Texas and couldn't get it from here (though to be fair, that doesn't mean they don't exist). The two people I know from NU who wanted Texas, who claimed to have better grades than some of my friends here, struck out. So yeah, I mean, that's not that persuasive, but it's the reason I just feel that the other guy really doesn't have any idea what he's talking about. I could definitely see making the argument that going to a "better school" makes more sense than going to UT. I can also see arguing that going to UT is more beneficial. The argument really goes both ways (FWIW, I think that personal preference and money aside, going to a T14 is the better decision if you have substantial ties to the state, and going to UT is wiser without ties). My whole point, though, was that I thought it was arbitrary to separate C and G from the rest of the bunch for Texas placement. I'll admit that I'm biased, but that notwithstanding, I'm also fairly confidant that I'm right (based on the info, albeit limited, that I've gathered).

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 8:57 pm

Solerpower wrote:How well does UVA place in Texas if you were top 10% or top 50%.

At UVA, top 10% can place well almost anywhere. Top 50%, I don't know. It's rough ITE, and that's where Texas connections come in.

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Solerpower
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Solerpower » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:03 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Solerpower wrote:How well does UVA place in Texas if you were top 10% or top 50%.

At UVA, top 10% can place well almost anywhere. Top 50%, I don't know. It's rough ITE, and that's where Texas connections come in.


I appreciate all the answers!

I'll throw out another one if you don't mind.

What places better in Texas, Top 50% at UT or Top 50% at UVA?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:04 pm

Solerpower wrote:What places better in Texas, Top 50% at UT or Top 50% at UVA?

Based on everything I've heard, I think this depends on whether the UVA student has real Texas ties (family there, or being from there). I think they'll win if they do, but lose if they don't.

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Solerpower
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Solerpower » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:09 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
Solerpower wrote:What places better in Texas, Top 50% at UT or Top 50% at UVA?

Based on everything I've heard, I think this depends on whether the UVA student has real Texas ties (family there, or being from there). I think they'll win if they do, but lose if they don't.


As if I haven't asked enough, do a lot of Texas firms (specifically Dallas and Houston) participate in OCI at Harvard?

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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby soonergirl » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:17 pm

Solerpower wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Solerpower wrote:How well does UVA place in Texas if you were top 10% or top 50%.

At UVA, top 10% can place well almost anywhere. Top 50%, I don't know. It's rough ITE, and that's where Texas connections come in.


I appreciate all the answers!

I'll throw out another one if you don't mind.

What places better in Texas, Top 50% at UT or Top 10% at UVA?


I don't know if you meant top 10% or top 50% at UVa, but you're most likely to get a job in Texas with a degree from UT. Something like 85% of grads place there. That's not to say the specific offers are going to be as nice as the offers you'd get in the top 10% at UVa, but it seems like you're most concerned about geography.

With your numbers you're likely to get a full ride at Texas. Going to UT would also give you a chance to do internship work in Houston or Dallas and see if you like the Lone Star State. Life down there is very, well, Texas.

But for now you just need to get your app stuff together and see what kind of offers you get. I'd postpone the "what's my best option" debate until you know what all your options and costs are.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:18 pm

soonergirl wrote:I don't know if you meant top 10% or top 50% at UVa, but you're most likely to get a job in Texas with a degree from UT. Something like 85% of grads place there.

This is that self-selection thing rearing its ugly head again.

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Solerpower
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Solerpower » Sun Apr 04, 2010 9:19 pm

soonergirl wrote:
Solerpower wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
Solerpower wrote:How well does UVA place in Texas if you were top 10% or top 50%.

At UVA, top 10% can place well almost anywhere. Top 50%, I don't know. It's rough ITE, and that's where Texas connections come in.


I appreciate all the answers!

I'll throw out another one if you don't mind.

What places better in Texas, Top 50% at UT or Top 10% at UVA?


I don't know if you meant top 10% or top 50% at UVa, but you're most likely to get a job in Texas with a degree from UT. Something like 85% of grads place there. That's not to say the specific offers are going to be as nice as the offers you'd get in the top 10% at UVa, but it seems like you're most concerned about geography.



With your numbers you're likely to get a full ride at Texas. Going to UT would also give you a chance to do internship work in Houston or Dallas and see if you like the Lone Star State. Life down there is very, well, Texas.

But for now you just need to get your app stuff together and see what kind of offers you get. I'd postpone the "what's my best option" debate until you know what all your options and costs are.


Yeah it definitely says top 50% for UVA, so i'm not sure why your quote says top 10%

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soonergirl
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby soonergirl » Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:43 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
soonergirl wrote:I don't know if you meant top 10% or top 50% at UVa, but you're most likely to get a job in Texas with a degree from UT. Something like 85% of grads place there.

This is that self-selection thing rearing its ugly head again.


right. exactly. It's a bit of an awkwardly posed question from somebody who doesn't really have the options defined yet.

Obviously, if you go to UT it's going to be easy to place in Texas. But I've got a friend with a degree from NYU who's at a firm in Houston. I've also got a friend from UT at a firm in LA.

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soonergirl
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby soonergirl » Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:45 pm

Solerpower wrote:Yeah it definitely says top 50% for UVA, so i'm not sure why your quote says top 10%


well, regardless, my advice is the same: First find out where you get in and what your offers are and then try to sort out which one's best. These kinds of questions are awfully hard to answer in a vacuum.

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OperaAttorney
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby OperaAttorney » Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:52 pm

What's with the UVA trolling in this thread? Some of you discuss UVA as if it were Harvard!

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billyez
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby billyez » Sun Apr 04, 2010 10:59 pm

For crying out loud is this conversation still going on?

I think the reason why people are talking so strongly abot UVA in this thread is because of the very particular premises of the question at hand. I heard there were quite a few Texans up at UVA when I visisted and who wouldn't want to come back down here afterwards?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:01 pm

OperaAttorney wrote:What's with the UVA trolling in this thread? Some of you discuss UVA as if it were Harvard!

UVA was raised by someone looking for advice. I was answered some pretty specific questions, and I'm pretty sure my answers weren't "trolling". I was pretty blunt and honest about the fact that (unless you have absolutely stellar grades) people without existing Texas ties are going to have a lot harder time getting a job in Texas from UVA ITE. How is that trolling? If I were trolling I'd be telling people UVA was just better.

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Solerpower
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Solerpower » Sun Apr 04, 2010 11:46 pm

vanwinkle wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:What's with the UVA trolling in this thread? Some of you discuss UVA as if it were Harvard!

UVA was raised by someone looking for advice. I was answered some pretty specific questions, and I'm pretty sure my answers weren't "trolling". I was pretty blunt and honest about the fact that (unless you have absolutely stellar grades) people without existing Texas ties are going to have a lot harder time getting a job in Texas from UVA ITE. How is that trolling? If I were trolling I'd be telling people UVA was just better.


Absolutley, Vanwinkle is just being EXTREMELY helpful towards someone who has no clue (me).

Basically, UVA came up because I mentioned it as a possible school for Texas and Van said it would be good in Atlanta and Texas, and therefore it was discussed in further detail.

This is not trolling, if we were saying UVA is better than all, or UVA is the one you should go to, that would be trolling.

Talking about UVA as a possible school that is decent for Texas =/= trolling.

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:06 am

You people have ruined a perfectly fun thread with your crazy talk.

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FunkyJD
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby FunkyJD » Mon Apr 05, 2010 12:29 am

kalvano wrote:Houston is a dirtier, hotter, more humid, crime-ridden, traffic-stress-inducing place.

Uptown Dallas is great for shallow girls with giant fake boobs who spend 45 minutes putting make-up on to take the trash out. They love you for who you are, as long as who you are means driving a BMW (a Mercedes is acceptable as well) and can take them to all the places where they can be seen and gaggle together to discuss how awesome they are.

Houston is about the same, except it's acceptable to drive an Infiniti, and they don't get their boobs done quite as large.

Inspired.


kalvano wrote:
madmartigan wrote:hmmm, interesting take. big boobs are nice, but low on my list qualities (unless its a one-niter). I lived in nyc while doing grad work so dirty cities do not affect me. I''m actually not that shallow... i know money>status>attractiveness gets the ladies. but i'll take a cute bohemian chick over blond hair/big boobs.)


This isn't Seattle.

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kittenmittons
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:09 am


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kittenmittons
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kittenmittons » Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:17 am

betasteve wrote:
kittenmittons wrote:http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=109039&start=25#p2628807

I don't get what you are trying to say here.

That helvidius has tcr for placement hierarchy in bigTEX




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