Best Law School for Texas?

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RVP11
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:43 am

kalvano wrote:That's all I've ever said. If you want to stay in Dallas, SMU is your best bet. Period.


If by "stay" in Dallas you mean never leave the city for law school, you're 100% correct (for once). Attending UT requires you to leave Dallas.
Last edited by RVP11 on Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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madmartigan
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby madmartigan » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:44 am

kalvano wrote:
madmartigan wrote:This is an abomination to logic. UMiami places more grads in Miami biglaw than Harvard. Does that mean UMiami is better than Harvard for Miami biglaw? That's what you're saying about SMU over UT because of the quantity employed in Dallas biglaw. If all Harvard grads attacked the Miami market, of course, they would out perform UMiami.


Well, since we are discussing Dallas and which school it better for Dallas...if German Shepherds could shit gold bricks, I wouldn't bother going to law school. You can "what if" your way into making any argument correct. But it still doesn't change the fact that, if you want to be in Dallas, SMU is the best choice.


wow. i was making a correlation united by a common principle; to illustrate the raw numbers that you are using to support your argument aren't relevant. i guess if i have to explain this, we've gone about as far as we can go.

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RVP11
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:45 am

madmartigan wrote:
kalvano wrote:
madmartigan wrote:This is an abomination to logic. UMiami places more grads in Miami biglaw than Harvard. Does that mean UMiami is better than Harvard for Miami biglaw? That's what you're saying about SMU over UT because of the quantity employed in Dallas biglaw. If all Harvard grads attacked the Miami market, of course, they would out perform UMiami.


Well, since we are discussing Dallas and which school it better for Dallas...if German Shepherds could shit gold bricks, I wouldn't bother going to law school. You can "what if" your way into making any argument correct. But it still doesn't change the fact that, if you want to be in Dallas, SMU is the best choice.


wow. i was making a correlation united by a common principle; to illustrate the raw numbers that you are using to support your argument aren't relevant. i guess if i have to explain this, we've gone about as far as we can go.


Like I said, Kalvano is going to have a tough time of it if this type of thing is passing him by.

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:45 am

madmartigan wrote:
kalvano wrote:
madmartigan wrote:This is an abomination to logic. UMiami places more grads in Miami biglaw than Harvard. Does that mean UMiami is better than Harvard for Miami biglaw? That's what you're saying about SMU over UT because of the quantity employed in Dallas biglaw. If all Harvard grads attacked the Miami market, of course, they would out perform UMiami.


Well, since we are discussing Dallas and which school it better for Dallas...if German Shepherds could shit gold bricks, I wouldn't bother going to law school. You can "what if" your way into making any argument correct. But it still doesn't change the fact that, if you want to be in Dallas, SMU is the best choice.


wow. i was making a correlation united by a common principle; to illustrate the raw numbers that you are using to support your argument aren't relevant. i guess if i have to explain this, we've gone about as far as we can go.



What raw numbers? The ones that show SMU grads dead even with UT grads in a large number of significant Dallas Biglaw firms?

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:46 am

I'm just going to reiterate my prior assertion as to what is best for Texas:

1) T14 + "Texas ties" (being from Texas or having family there)
2) UT
3) Anything else, with $$$$ preferably

Unless you want to get into politics, in which case you want either 1) UT or (if you're a Republican) 2) Baylor.

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RVP11
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:47 am

kalvano wrote:What raw numbers? The ones that show SMU grads dead even with UT grads in a large number of significant Dallas Biglaw firms?


Would you argue that SMU also must be better than Yale for Dallas BigLaw because they have so many more grads in the firms?

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:48 am

kalvano wrote:
That's all I've ever said. If you want to stay in Dallas, SMU is your best bet. Period. Everyone else seems to think that throwing out UT's state placement stats and the portability of the degree, etc., is some kind of response to that, but it's not.


K now this has just gotten silly. SMU does not beat someone from Harvard with Texas ties. I'm done with this thread, it's just headache inducing.

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:48 am

RVP11 wrote:
kalvano wrote:What raw numbers? The ones that show SMU grads dead even with UT grads in a large number of significant Dallas Biglaw firms?


Would you argue that SMU also must be better than Yale for Dallas BigLaw because they have so many more grads in the firms?



Well, you don't see too many Yale grads in top Dallas Biglaw firms...

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RVP11
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:48 am

Okay I'm calling flame now. Brilliant, elaborate flame.

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RVP11
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:49 am

kalvano wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
kalvano wrote:What raw numbers? The ones that show SMU grads dead even with UT grads in a large number of significant Dallas Biglaw firms?


Would you argue that SMU also must be better than Yale for Dallas BigLaw because they have so many more grads in the firms?



Well, you don't see too many Yale grads in top Dallas Biglaw firms...


Aw shit. You've been flaming all along?

No one can be this stupid without intending to be.

I give you credit though. You really had me.

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:50 am

Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
kalvano wrote:
That's all I've ever said. If you want to stay in Dallas, SMU is your best bet. Period. Everyone else seems to think that throwing out UT's state placement stats and the portability of the degree, etc., is some kind of response to that, but it's not.


K now this has just gotten silly. SMU does not beat someone from Harvard with Texas ties. I'm done with this thread, it's just headache inducing.



kalvano wrote:I'm agreeing with you. Despite what he thinks, aside from maybe HYS, a T14 won't throw around near as much weight in Dallas as he wants to believe.

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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby madmartigan » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:51 am

RVP11 wrote:Okay I'm calling flame now. Brilliant, elaborate flame.


duly noted. I was taken hook, line, and sinker.

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:54 am

RVP11 wrote:
kalvano wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
kalvano wrote:What raw numbers? The ones that show SMU grads dead even with UT grads in a large number of significant Dallas Biglaw firms?


Would you argue that SMU also must be better than Yale for Dallas BigLaw because they have so many more grads in the firms?



Well, you don't see too many Yale grads in top Dallas Biglaw firms...


Aw shit. You've been flaming all along?

No one can be this stupid without intending to be.

I give you credit though. You really had me.



Look, at this point, all I can say is that it's wonder UVA is in the T14 admitting people like you, and call it a good night. I've asked you many times to produce evidence backing up your assertions, and each time, you've got nothing. Other people have done it, still nothing except a lot of sound and fury.

And like the tale told by the idiot...

You keep on going with your bad self and believing what you want to believe. It's fine.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:55 am

kalvano wrote:Look, at this point, all I can say is that it's wonder UVA is in the T14 admitting people like you, and call it a good night. I've asked you many times to produce evidence backing up your assertions, and each time, you've got nothing. Other people have done it, still nothing except a lot of sound and fury.

And like the tale told by the idiot...

You keep on going with your bad self and believing what you want to believe. It's fine.

Is this you denying you're trolling, or just continuing the trolling? I'm confused.

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Richie Tenenbaum
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Richie Tenenbaum » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:55 am

kalvano wrote:
Richie Tenenbaum wrote:
kalvano wrote:
That's all I've ever said. If you want to stay in Dallas, SMU is your best bet. Period. Everyone else seems to think that throwing out UT's state placement stats and the portability of the degree, etc., is some kind of response to that, but it's not.


K now this has just gotten silly. SMU does not beat someone from Harvard with Texas ties. I'm done with this thread, it's just headache inducing.



kalvano wrote:I'm agreeing with you. Despite what he thinks, aside from maybe HYS, a T14 won't throw around near as much weight in Dallas as he wants to believe.


kalvano wrote: If you want to stay in Dallas, SMU is your best bet. Period.

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Sun Apr 04, 2010 12:58 am

vanwinkle wrote:
kalvano wrote:Look, at this point, all I can say is that it's wonder UVA is in the T14 admitting people like you, and call it a good night. I've asked you many times to produce evidence backing up your assertions, and each time, you've got nothing. Other people have done it, still nothing except a lot of sound and fury.

And like the tale told by the idiot...

You keep on going with your bad self and believing what you want to believe. It's fine.

Is this you denying you're trolling, or just continuing the trolling? I'm confused.



Never have been trolling, just tired of arguing. It's round and round with no end point. When you start throwing out stupid "what if's" like Yale versus SMU, you've lost. he has no idea what he's talking about, just as I wouldn't know the first thing about the Virginia legal market.

SMU is best if you want to live in Dallas. I've lived here all my life and have a number of connections in the Dallas legal market. I'm fine with him thinking I'm wrong. It makes no difference to me.
Last edited by kalvano on Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:00 am

kalvano wrote:Never have been trolling, just tired of arguing. It's round and round with no end point. When you start throwing out stupid "what if's" like Yale versus SMU, you've lost.

SMU is best if you want to live in Dallas. I've lived here all my life and have a number of connections in the Dallas legal market. I'm fine with him thinking I'm wrong. It makes no difference to me.

You think Yale versus SMU is a stupid what-if, and then you keep asserting that SMU is best for Dallas? Are you completely cracked in the head? There's no way a firm would even blink if it had to seriously choose between a Yale grad and an SMU grad. They'd take the Yale grad every single time.

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RVP11
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:00 am

kalvano wrote:When you start throwing out stupid "what if's" like Yale versus SMU, you've lost.


Never heard of argument by analogy? This and the concept of self-selection keep whizzing right over your head.

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:01 am

vanwinkle wrote:
kalvano wrote:Never have been trolling, just tired of arguing. It's round and round with no end point. When you start throwing out stupid "what if's" like Yale versus SMU, you've lost.

SMU is best if you want to live in Dallas. I've lived here all my life and have a number of connections in the Dallas legal market. I'm fine with him thinking I'm wrong. It makes no difference to me.

You think Yale versus SMU is a stupid what-if, and then you keep asserting that SMU is best for Dallas? Are you completely cracked in the head? There's no way a firm would even blink if it had to seriously choose between a Yale grad and an SMU grad. They'd take the Yale grad every single time.



For fuck's sake, look up. I made that distinction a long time ago.

But really, how many Yale grads want to come work Dallas Biglaw?

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:02 am

RVP11 wrote:
kalvano wrote:When you start throwing out stupid "what if's" like Yale versus SMU, you've lost.


Never heard of argument by analogy? This and the concept of self-selection keep whizzing right over your head.


Okey-dokey.

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RVP11
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby RVP11 » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:04 am

kalvano wrote:But really, how many Yale grads want to come work Dallas Biglaw?

:shock:

You're on the road to understanding self-selection.

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madmartigan
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby madmartigan » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:05 am

kalvano wrote:
vanwinkle wrote:
kalvano wrote:Look, at this point, all I can say is that it's wonder UVA is in the T14 admitting people like you, and call it a good night. I've asked you many times to produce evidence backing up your assertions, and each time, you've got nothing. Other people have done it, still nothing except a lot of sound and fury.

And like the tale told by the idiot...

You keep on going with your bad self and believing what you want to believe. It's fine.

Is this you denying you're trolling, or just continuing the trolling? I'm confused.



Never have been trolling, just tired of arguing. It's round and round with no end point. When you start throwing out stupid "what if's" like Yale versus SMU, you've lost. he has no idea what he's talking about, just as I wouldn't know the first thing about the Virginia legal market.

SMU is best if you want to live in Dallas. I've lived here all my life and have a number of connections in the Dallas legal market. I'm fine with him thinking I'm wrong. It makes no difference to me.


at this point I think it needs to be said that SMU undergrad is mostly for wealthy christians who couldn't get into Rice, UT, or Texas A&M.

the most valid point made is the yale comparison in the Dallas Market. But let's try one more and see if it takes...

What if I argued that ITT technical institute in Longview Texas is the best school to go to if you want to work biglaw in Longview (I know longview has no biglaw, but let's pretend). What if I said ITT tech is even better than SMU for Longview, becuase more firms in Longview have ITT grads than SMU??? Did it click? SMU grads don't try to work in Longview, it doesn't mean that they couldn't out perform ITT tech.
Last edited by madmartigan on Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby vanwinkle » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:06 am

kalvano wrote:But really, how many Yale grads want to come work Dallas Biglaw?

Not many. This is called "self-selection". I think people have been referring to it earlier in the thread. Yale is better for placing into the Dallas market, but because so many Yalies go elsewhere, that doesn't result in more Yalies in Dallas than SMU grads.

Now apply this same concept to other T14 schools, and to UT, and you'll understand where people are coming from.

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Sangiovese
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby Sangiovese » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:08 am

RVP11 wrote:Among your supporters, I count only two people: a fellow with a 156 and someone who was considering how high in the class they think they'll rank in determining which law school to attend. Both 0Ls.


Easy there big fellah....

Since you're calling me out, and getting rather personal and "deuchey" with the comment, I'll jump back in and make a couple comments.

Exactly what does an LSAT score have to do with this conversation? Are you really saying that there is a correlation between LSAT score and the ability to evaluate employment prospects? If not, then what the hell does it have to do with anything? Trying to discredit my argument by attacking my LSAT score? Seriously? And if LSAT/GPA matter in the conversation... it's convenient that you left out my 4.0. If we're gonna be snarky... remind me... what was your GPA?

As for being a 0L. Does being a 1, 2, or 3L really make you one damn bit more qualified to determine how hiring decisions are made at biglaw firms? Please enlighten me as to how your experience as a law student has made you an expert in the area of placement in law firms? Did having an interview or summer internship turn you into an expert? Did the partners explain to you why they made the decisions they did? Of course not. You don't have one damn bit more "authority" in the area than any 0L on these boards. But feel superior all you want.

I've been in the workforce for over 20 years. I've been involved in evaluating job candidates for 10. Does that make me an expert in how law firms hire? Of course not. But I'd say that it gives me a helluva lot more insight into the hiring process than you got sitting in con law.

Now that we've got that out of the way.... what exactly makes you characterize me as supporting Kalvano's position? I never once said that SMU was better than UT for placing in Dallas. I never once said that SMU was better than T14 for placing in Dallas. Here is exactly what I said... since you seemed to miss it.
UT is the top dog for all of Texas.
In Dallas, SMU closely follows UT. In Houston, UH closely follows UT.
So basically, UT is the best choice as it allows you to compete all over Texas. SMU and U. Houston place very well in their home cities, but drop off once you venture out.


I called you out when you said:
Alumni base is not what matters here. How deep big Dallas firms are digging into your school is what matters here. Firms in Dallas are undoubtedly taking people from lower in the class at UT than they are at SMU.


I asked you to justify that. You still have not. Just because UT places better (a whopping 9%) nationally, does not mean that firms in Dallas are going to take someone with a lower ranking at UT than at SMU. And discounting alumni basis is foolish. People hire from their alma mater.

I DID say that SMU places neck and neck "in Dallas" (although I would still recommend UT over SMU). You still have not said anything that disproves that.

So if you're going to bring me back into this and fling mud at me for a LSAT score that I took cold (and served it's purpose, I'm in at the only school to which I applied) then get your shit straight and attack me on things that:
1. Are relevant.
2. I said.

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kalvano
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Re: Best Law School for Texas?

Postby kalvano » Sun Apr 04, 2010 1:13 am

Yes, if everyone in the T14 suddenly decided Dallas was the place to be, then yeah, it would have an effect.

But they don't and won't, and so it really doesn't matter. That's the problem with "what ifs". What if SMU was suddenly ranked like it placed? Then we wouldn't be having an argument.

Outside HYS (happy Richie Tenenbaum?), a T14 just doesn't swing as much weight as certain people want to believe. For finding a job in the Dallas market, an SMU grad is just as competitive as a UVA / Cornell / whatever.

That's not saying, nor have I ever said, that SMU is your best all-around bet. But people seem to keep making that the argument.

If Dallas is your spot, though, then it's a waste to go to UT or Penn or Cornell. You won't get super-special loving here.




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