Is a LLM worth it?

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)

Are planning on a LLM after you finish your JD?

Poll ended at Fri Mar 26, 2010 12:30 pm

Yes
11
34%
NO
21
66%
 
Total votes: 32

jdland2010
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Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:30 pm

I was reading about LLM's online and I'm wondering if they are actually worth it. Part of me thinks maybe it will give you an edge over grads that do not have one. And the other part of me thinks that it's a waste of your student loan funds--the schools are just suckering you in for another year and more debt. I've noticed that a handful of lawyers (at top firms) have them and the rest do not.

What's the deal with the LLM? What do you all think?

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patrickd139
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby patrickd139 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 12:37 pm

PSA: Please us the "SEARCH SITE" and "SEARCH FORUM" functions at the top left of the website before creating threads like these. TYIA.

Generalized/anecdotal substantive help: yes for certain tax LLMs, no for just about everything else.

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nealric
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby nealric » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:04 pm

Time to post the flowchart again:

Image

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Knock
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby Knock » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:32 pm

nealric wrote:Time to post the flowchart again:

Image


Personally, I'm planning/hoping on getting a Tax LLM, so hopefully I can get in at one of those schools.

Ps. So, according to the chart a Yale or Harvard LLM isn't very good? I kind of find that hard to believe.

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nealric
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby nealric » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:06 pm

Ps. So, according to the chart a Yale or Harvard LLM isn't very good? I kind of find that hard to believe.


The Yale and Harvard LLMs are basically just for international students going into academia. They really aren't the type of thing you just apply to after your U.S. J.D. because you couldn't find a job. Put it this way: if the Yale LLM is the right path for you, you don't need to ask about it on TLS.

Even a tax LLM isn't always a good path. There are plenty of NYU Tax LLMs that have problems finding employment.
Last edited by nealric on Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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patrickd139
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby patrickd139 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 2:08 pm

nealric wrote:
Ps. So, according to the chart a Yale or Harvard LLM isn't very good? I kind of find that hard to believe.


The Yale and Harvard LLMs are basically just for international students going into academia. They really aren't the type of thing you just apply to after your U.S. J.D. because you couldn't find a job. Put it this way: if the Yale LLM is the right path for you, you don't need to ask about it on TLS.

180.

jdland2010
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:35 pm

Thanks for the advice.

patrickd139 wrote:PSA: Please us the "SEARCH SITE" and "SEARCH FORUM" functions at the top left of the website before creating threads like these. TYIA.

Generalized/anecdotal substantive help: yes for certain tax LLMs, no for just about everything else.

jdland2010
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:45 pm

After looking at the comments posted above, it seems that LLM's are a waste of time. But then again, they seem to be only a waste if they aren't in Tax. But in the end result, some people still think its a waste altogether--even if you get a LLM in Tax from a great school.

I'm still confused on the issue. I'm just going to avoid the LLM altogether, stick with getting a JD and not pay out more $$$ on a LLM.

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cardnal124
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby cardnal124 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:50 pm

jdland2010 wrote:After looking at the comments posted above, it seems that LLM's are a waste of time. But then again, they seem to be only a waste if they aren't in Tax. But in the end result, some people still think its a waste altogether--even if you get a LLM in Tax from a great school.

I'm still confused on the issue. I'm just going to avoid the LLM altogether, stick with getting a JD and not pay out more $$$ on a LLM.


Yes. If you want an LLM, your firm will pay for you to get one. General consensus from TLS: if you aren't good enough for biglaw before an LLM, you aren't good enough after.

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Hammurabi
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby Hammurabi » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:53 pm

Harvard and Yale LLMs are definitely geared for teaching. Applying to them without showing a burning interest for academia will probably make the applicant an auto-ding. It's unlikely that the LLM will give an edge over other grads. There are plenty of legit reasons to get an LLM, but solely for better employment prospects is not one of them. You've probably made the right decision.

jdland2010
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:55 pm

Good advice. I will just wait and let the firm pay for it. I will also probably be burned out with school at that point and won't want to go back after that.

cardnal124 wrote:
jdland2010 wrote:After looking at the comments posted above, it seems that LLM's are a waste of time. But then again, they seem to be only a waste if they aren't in Tax. But in the end result, some people still think its a waste altogether--even if you get a LLM in Tax from a great school.

I'm still confused on the issue. I'm just going to avoid the LLM altogether, stick with getting a JD and not pay out more $$$ on a LLM.


Yes. If you want an LLM, your firm will pay for you to get one. General consensus from TLS: if you aren't good enough for biglaw before an LLM, you aren't good enough after.

jdland2010
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 9:58 pm

Teaching is a good option. I would be willing to explore that, but I would want to know how much the salary is.

Hammurabi wrote:Harvard and Yale LLMs are definitely geared for teaching. Applying to them without showing a burning interest for academia will probably make the applicant an auto-ding. It's unlikely that the LLM will give an edge over other grads. There are plenty of legit reasons to get an LLM, but solely for better employment prospects is not one of them. You've probably made the right decision.

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Hammurabi
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby Hammurabi » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:04 pm

jdland2010 wrote:Teaching is a good option. I would be willing to explore that, but I would want to know how much the salary is.


I'm no expert on it, but I've heard that a six figure salary is attainable. Then again, not sure how much weight would be put on which institution awarded your JD.

jdland2010
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Fri Mar 19, 2010 10:15 pm

Doesn't sound too bad. I will just wait and see if I want to go that route. Like I said before, I may end being burned out and want nothing to do with going back to school (or academia) after I finish my JD. I've already spent a lot of time in school: I have a MBA from a top-20 program.

Hammurabi wrote:
jdland2010 wrote:Teaching is a good option. I would be willing to explore that, but I would want to know how much the salary is.


I'm no expert on it, but I've heard that a six figure salary is attainable. Then again, not sure how much weight would be put on which institution awarded your JD.

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nealric
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby nealric » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:14 am

Hammurabi wrote:

Teaching is a good option. I would be willing to explore that, but I would want to know how much the salary is.

jdland2010 wrote:
I'm no expert on it, but I've heard that a six figure salary is attainable. Then again, not sure how much weight would be put on which institution awarded your JD.


--ImageRemoved--
Last edited by nealric on Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

jdland2010
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 3:43 pm

It looks like the vote is split 50/50 as of now...

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nealric
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby nealric » Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:06 pm

It looks like the vote is split 50/50 as of now..


I'm not sure what the point of the poll is. 50% can't seriously be getting llms after graduation.

jdland2010
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Sat Mar 20, 2010 10:23 pm

The original point of the poll was to see how many JD's were going to pursue a LLM after graduation. The conversation then began to go may different directions. Read the entire thread before making comments.

nealric wrote:
It looks like the vote is split 50/50 as of now..


I'm not sure what the point of the poll is. 50% can't seriously be getting llms after graduation.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Mar 21, 2010 5:11 am

Everything about this thread aside from nealric's flowchart is a massive pile of FAIL

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nealric
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby nealric » Sun Mar 21, 2010 10:54 am

The original point of the poll was to see how many JD's were going to pursue a LLM after graduation. The conversation then began to go may different directions. Read the entire thread before making comments.


You see, I was reading it. My point is that the poll is pointless because it can't possibly be getting accurate results.

jdland2010
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jdland2010 » Sun Mar 21, 2010 1:11 pm

It's now 40/60

nealric wrote:
The original point of the poll was to see how many JD's were going to pursue a LLM after graduation. The conversation then began to go may different directions. Read the entire thread before making comments.


You see, I was reading it. My point is that the poll is pointless because it can't possibly be getting accurate results.

toolfan
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby toolfan » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:56 am

I'm a little bummed at all of this. Are there no compensations for enhancing your legal specialization?

jarofsoup
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby jarofsoup » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:02 am

I partially agree with the flow chart. If you want to do probate and the LLM is in taxes it is worth it. However, there are more than two good LLM programs in the US.

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nealric
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby nealric » Tue Apr 20, 2010 9:54 am

However, there are more than two good LLM programs in the US.


Indeed. There are 3- look at the chart. :lol:

I will give partial credit to a bankruptcy LLM at St. Johns.

BillDC1128
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Re: Is a LLM worth it?

Postby BillDC1128 » Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:36 am

An LLM is not worth it period! Even at a prestigous law school. I got an LLM in government procurement law at The George Washington University Law School. I did not get my JD at a TTT, I wanted to practice procurement law. Historically, graduates of that program have been placed with good jobs (federal government and biglaw). However, the market crash has changed this and they cannot place all (probably not most) of their graduates. Sadly, enrollment has increased in this program. Tax law (the most well known LLM) is not exactly a hot practice area right now and tons of lawyers with no ta experiencce are enrolling in tax LLM programs. Big law tax associates have been laid off. Furthermore, it is as sataurated as any other practice area. The message is - if you don't have a job now, getting an LLM is not the answer. A year later, you will likely have no job and significanly more student debt! DON't DO IT.




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