GPA Questions! Need your input!

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dibs
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GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:35 pm

I need your input on my interesting circumstances. I've attended two different undergraduate institutions and have two completely different experiences.

I went to University for the first time when I was 17. I spent 3 years there, completely undisciplined and unprepared, and was placed on academic probation and subsequently required to withdraw. This was do to GPA alone, not any other reason. it dipped below 1.7.

I took a year off and "grew up", as it were, and went back to school (at a different institution). At this new school, in this new program, I had a 3.8 GPA throughout, hit the Dean's Honour Roll 6 consecutive semesters, won multiple awards and scholarships, and was considerably involved with volunteer/community outreach and various school organzations. This was a co-op program, so there were gradable work terms, and there was an anomolous situation in my final term which caused my degree GPA to dip to 3.36.

So I was playing around on LSAC today, having noted that my LSDAS GPA was reported as 3.36 but also recently reading there is a Cumulative GPA score on my Academic Report which is the one actually considered. I noticed this Cum GPA is 2.78.

So here are my questions:

1. What is your reportable GPA by LSAC? Is it total over your entire academic career, or is it based on a certain time segment (last 2 years or certain # of credit hours)? If so, what is that number?

2. What will my report summary impression be? Negative, noting the 1.7 and Academic Withdrawl, or Positive, noting the complete turnaround and significant upshift?

3. How much will my soft stats play a role, considering the statistical differences. Also, I'm 27 and have been working in Oil and Gas for 3 years, showing serious career progression and significance on my resume.

I don't have an LSAT score to report yet, however I was PT'ing around 155. Felt about the same in the Feb 2010 sitting.

*edit* I scored 162.

*edit #2* accepted at Richmond (Wed., March 17th)
Last edited by dibs on Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:03 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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Kilpatrick
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby Kilpatrick » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:46 pm

.
Last edited by Kilpatrick on Wed Nov 09, 2011 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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dibs
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Fri Feb 12, 2010 3:58 pm

bleh =/.

all i can find on LSAC is the following little snippet:

Degree (Summary) GPA: The weighted average of all grades received at your degree-granting school. The total semester hours associated
with that GPA are also reported.

Cumulative GPA: The cumulative average of all grades received at all undergraduate schools you have attended. The total semester hours
associated with that GPA are also reported.


When it goes on to describe the admissions index, it just states "GPA". Would be nice to get a concrete answer on whether it's cumulative or degree (summary).

*edit* nevermind, the constant multiplier on the index is 0.xxx(cum) or higher. cum gpa it is. shite.
Last edited by dibs on Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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swc65
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby swc65 » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:06 pm

it is your CGPA. So they will average your entire academic career. I had a similar situation and they count all of the grades.

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dibs
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:10 pm

swc65 wrote:it is your CGPA. So they will average your entire academic career. I had a similar situation and they count all of the grades.


how did you do, relatively? can i expect a lot of rejections?

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Mr. Matlock
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby Mr. Matlock » Fri Feb 12, 2010 4:12 pm

dibs wrote:
swc65 wrote:it is your CGPA. So they will average your entire academic career. I had a similar situation and they count all of the grades.


how did you do, relatively? can i expect a lot of rejections?

Depends. You'd better knock the hell out of the LSAT.

270910
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby 270910 » Sat Feb 13, 2010 1:45 pm

You're hosed.

Sorry, the system sucks, there's no nice way to put it.

A 2.78 is keeping you out of a lot of top programs, and it will keep you out of a lot of decent programs unless you swing well north of 170 on the LSAT.

Your 'softs', the amount of time there was, etc. will have almost no impact. They'll see your 2.78 and treat it as such.

Again, the system sucks. Sorry about that.

memaha
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby memaha » Wed Feb 17, 2010 10:34 am

You can always try to write a compelling addendum for why that first try at undergrad failed and what you learned/how you changed the second time around. Only thing is, unless you had a legitimate reason (i.e. some tragedy or issue) for the lower grades, some schools might not find your reasoning to amount to much in the end. Who knows. Never hurts to try though.

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dibs
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Wed Feb 17, 2010 11:38 am

funny you should mention that.. i do include an addendum to my application. i don't want to post it here, but i'll summarize:

- when i was 14 i had two strokes: 1 on my brainstem and 1 on my cerebellum.
- underwent an experimental procedure with an experimental drug to bust the arterial clot
- survived, but was left with "locked-in" syndrome (full-body paralysis with full cognitive function)
- extensive recovery/therapy period. this happened right as i was graduating grade 9 and entering high school
- different coping mechanisms through recovery, went to university at 17 (for some stupid reason) while not nearly emotionally or physically ready

that's the gist. compelling enough? i don't know, being biased. need an outsider's perspective.

jk11287
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby jk11287 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:05 pm

dibs wrote:funny you should mention that.. i do include an addendum to my application. i don't want to post it here, but i'll summarize:

- when i was 14 i had two strokes: 1 on my brainstem and 1 on my cerebellum.
- underwent an experimental procedure with an experimental drug to bust the arterial clot
- survived, but was left with "locked-in" syndrome (full-body paralysis with full cognitive function)
- extensive recovery/therapy period. this happened right as i was graduating grade 9 and entering high school
- different coping mechanisms through recovery, went to university at 17 (for some stupid reason) while not nearly emotionally or physically ready

that's the gist. compelling enough? i don't know, being biased. need an outsider's perspective.

In all honesty, while your story might be really impressive and compelling on a human level, it won't make that much of a difference for law school, unfortunately. I'm in a similar position as you; I had one bad year and three great ones (3.8+) and ended up with an LSDAS GPA of 3.23, which kept me out of a lot of schools my LSAT would have normally gotten me into. I didn't have major surgery or anything, but there were some extenuating circumstances about which I wrote an addendum, and honestly, nobody cared. In addition, I had an extreme upward trend, finishing my last two semesters with a 4.0 with 15+ credits adn that really didn't matter either. I think your low semester at your current school hurts your "upward trend" image a lot also, because it could be perceived as you slacking off your senior year.
As I said, i had a really hard time this cycle, but my best advice would be to just send out applications almost indiscriminately to as many schools as you possibly can that are even remotely near your LSAT/

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dibs
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:14 pm

i have the same impression as you, jk. my support network have this cute little idealism thing going on, and they all have a "good feeling". i'm a little more pragmatic than that. i know what the impression of my numbers are, i know my very last semester kills any upward trend perception, and i know that the sheer volume of students does not allow for a holistic review of everyone. i doubt i'll even make it to the 'consideration' pile.

if i have a chance anywhere i think it's North Dakota. my cousin went there, was predominant in the school, served as an editor on the law review, worked a judicial clerkship in ND, and went on to open his own practice and serve as a part-time judge in Minnesota. he passed away last year. not sure if legacy counts for anything, but if it does, i'll have a chance at ND.

jk11287
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby jk11287 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:27 pm

Well I don't mean to discourage you from trying as many places as you can. For example, this cycle, I got into some schools that were highly rated and got rejected from lower rated schools-some places are just more splitter-friendly or more understanding of personal situations. I would also try maybe applying to PT programs with the intention of trying to move into FT later on. Try to get an interview wherever possible. And you need to kill the LSAT-this isn't a hard and fast formula, but generally speaking, the higher your LSAT is, the less your GPA will matter if you can explain away some things.

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dibs
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:50 pm

i was late in my applications and LSAT sitting, so this cycle i've only applied to the following:

UND
UNLV
Dalhousie
Saskatchewan
UBC
UVic

once i get my LSAT score i'll know more about my chances. dalhousie is my #1. if i don't get in anywhere this cycle, i'll be gunning for Calgary next cycle. that is my best chance, given their track record for mature/holistic students.

270910
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby 270910 » Wed Feb 17, 2010 12:59 pm

dibs wrote:i was late in my applications and LSAT sitting, so this cycle i've only applied to the following:

UND
UNLV
Dalhousie
Saskatchewan
UBC
UVic

once i get my LSAT score i'll know more about my chances. dalhousie is my #1. if i don't get in anywhere this cycle, i'll be gunning for Calgary next cycle. that is my best chance, given their track record for mature/holistic students.


So you're applying late in the application cycle, without knowing your LSAT, and with a sub 3.0 GPA?

I have a very bad feeling about this...

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dibs
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Wed Feb 17, 2010 2:17 pm

to be fair, i only realized my gpa was sub 3.0 recently. i was going in under the impression my degree GPA of 3.32 would be used.

also, the schools i applied to accept the Feb 2010 LSAT, so that really shouldn't matter. the schools don't even look at your application until the LSAC report is delivered. applying late in the cycle might mean a lot of the spots are taken up already, but i have no chance at those spots anyway.

the only way i'll get in is by grabbing one of the few spots set aside for a softy.

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dibs
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Mon Mar 01, 2010 3:13 pm

*bump*

socred 162 on my LSAT (first-time).

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im_blue
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby im_blue » Mon Mar 01, 2010 4:19 pm

Well, you're applying with a 2.78/162 (no buts about that), so you're realistically looking at Tier 3 or 4 schools.

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cavortingbeastie
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby cavortingbeastie » Mon Mar 01, 2010 7:09 pm

In all honesty, while your story might be really impressive and compelling on a human level, it won't make that much of a difference for law school, unfortunately. I'm in a similar position as you; I had one bad year and three great ones (3.8+) and ended up with an LSDAS GPA of 3.23, which kept me out of a lot of schools my LSAT would have normally gotten me into. I didn't have major surgery or anything, but there were some extenuating circumstances about which I wrote an addendum, and honestly, nobody cared. In addition, I had an extreme upward trend, finishing my last two semesters with a 4.0 with 15+ credits adn that really didn't matter either. I think your low semester at your current school hurts your "upward trend" image a lot also, because it could be perceived as you slacking off your senior year.
As I said, i had a really hard time this cycle, but my best advice would be to just send out applications almost indiscriminately to as many schools as you possibly can that are even remotely near your LSAT/



Yeah, I'm basically in the same boat, with the exact same LSDAS GPA. The fact that I'm a serious splitter though has pushed me into the T14. So, my advice would really be to retake the test. It's not over yet.

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dibs
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Re: GPA Questions! Need your input!

Postby dibs » Fri Mar 19, 2010 1:02 pm

update:

Accepted to Univ. of Richmond on Wednesday (T2)

still pending:

UNLV
UND
Gonzaga
Hofstra
Drexel
Denver
Dalhousie
UBC
Saskatchewan




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