What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

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nycparalegal
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What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby nycparalegal » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:03 pm

If an individual plans on starting their own law practice, or staying within their home region. What would be the advatages of going to a t-14 in a different state over the best school in their own state/region (which could include a t-14 school)? For example, if you lived in Michigan the top state/regional school would be Michigan.

I bring this up because I was reading about James Baker, and he had the chance to go study at Harvard Law, but he decided to go to Texas instead (his father told him it would be better for him because he would build up local connections).

In the same vein, wouldn't it make more sense to clerk for a state judge rather than a federal judge if you plan on a small regional practice?

Of course, I know it all depends on your own ambitions and plans. But I'd like to see what other people think.
Last edited by nycparalegal on Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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spinsta
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top regional?

Postby spinsta » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:05 pm

ummmm...job prospects? If you want Biglaw or a clerkship, go to the T14. Can't think of an argument for a top regional, unless it is free or incredibly cheap and you are extremely risk-adverse.

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jayn3
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top regional?

Postby jayn3 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:13 pm

It depends on the regional. I'm strongly considering Minnesota over Michigan, partly because of money/regional preference, but also because I don't feel like I'd be sacrificing too much in terms of rankings if I eventually chose to move away from the Midwest. State School in my hometown, even though they're offering me a full ride and I could live with the boyfriend, is about as appealing as a plate of week-old nachos due to rankings.

That being said, I'm curious about what everyone else says.

nycparalegal
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top regional?

Postby nycparalegal » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:38 pm

jayn3 wrote:It depends on the regional. I'm strongly considering Minnesota over Michigan, partly because of money/regional preference, but also because I don't feel like I'd be sacrificing too much in terms of rankings if I eventually chose to move away from the Midwest. State School in my hometown, even though they're offering me a full ride and I could live with the boyfriend, is about as appealing as a plate of week-old nachos due to rankings.

That being said, I'm curious about what everyone else says.



Minnesota is a great school. What are your future plans?

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jayn3
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby jayn3 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:47 pm

well, ideally i'd like to do something in international/human rights law....but right now i predict i'll be spending a lot of time in the career office hashing out what my best options are. and if i can find a life plan that lets me balance work, family, travel, and coaching the sport i've played for 12 years, then i'll be able to tell people what my plans are.

....and while i'm dreaming, i'd like a pony.

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manbearwig
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby manbearwig » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:48 pm

There's still a chance I could get into a T14, but most likely I am going to go to a top regional no matter what. I don't really know about T2 or T3's in other areas, but I'm strongly considering Temple Law in Philly because it really offers the best career placement in the city after Penn. (And I've heard of cases where Temple grads beat out Penn grads.) Once again, I don't know about other cities, but Philly is pretty insular, and it can be difficult to find a job there if you go to a law school outside the area. Staying in the region also shows your commitment to the area.

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nealric
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby nealric » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:50 pm


I bring this up because I was reading about James Baker, and he had the chance to go study at Harvard Law, but he decided to go to Texas instead (his father told him it would be better for him because he would build up local connections).


James Baker was a Baker... as in Baker & Botts... as in the top firm in Texas then and now. He already had a job lined up- so it didn't matter.

It depends on the regional. I'm strongly considering Minnesota over Michigan, partly because of money/regional preference, but also because I don't feel like I'd be sacrificing too much in terms of rankings if I eventually chose to move away from the Midwest.


Image


You are sacrificing a HUGE amount of potential opportunities by choosing Minnesota over Michigan. This is ESPECIALLY true if you want to do something like international human rights.


There are reasons to pick a less prestigious state school, but it's the wrong decision for the vast majority of students (especially those who are straight out of college).

nycparalegal
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby nycparalegal » Wed Feb 03, 2010 3:57 pm

nealric wrote:

I bring this up because I was reading about James Baker, and he had the chance to go study at Harvard Law, but he decided to go to Texas instead (his father told him it would be better for him because he would build up local connections).


James Baker was a Baker... as in Baker & Botts... as in the top firm in Texas then and now. He already had a job lined up- so it didn't matter.


Actually, James Baker wasn't allowed to work at Baker Botts when he first graduated law school. He went to go work at Andrews and Kurth, but thats not the point.

The point is that if you want to practice in Alabama, and you got into Cornell or Virginia would it make sense to go to Alabama (maybe to develop local connections?)

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jayn3
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby jayn3 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 8:42 pm

nealric wrote:You are sacrificing a HUGE amount of potential opportunities by choosing Minnesota over Michigan. This is ESPECIALLY true if you want to do something like international human rights.


There are reasons to pick a less prestigious state school, but it's the wrong decision for the vast majority of students (especially those who are straight out of college).


oof. thanks for the guilt trip. i'll get back to you if i get into mich about just how much debt and sacrificing of relationships is safe and/or justifiable for the sake of my career.

housie07
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby housie07 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:09 pm

nycparalegal wrote:
nealric wrote:

I bring this up because I was reading about James Baker, and he had the chance to go study at Harvard Law, but he decided to go to Texas instead (his father told him it would be better for him because he would build up local connections).


James Baker was a Baker... as in Baker & Botts... as in the top firm in Texas then and now. He already had a job lined up- so it didn't matter.


Actually, James Baker wasn't allowed to work at Baker Botts when he first graduated law school. He went to go work at Andrews and Kurth, but thats not the point.

The point is that if you want to practice in Alabama, and you got into Cornell or Virginia would it make sense to go to Alabama (maybe to develop local connections?)


No way, his dad made him go to the firm down the street?

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JordynAsh
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby JordynAsh » Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:13 pm

jayn3, PLEASE don't go to Minnesota over Michigan if you want transferability. (Not that Minnesota isn't a completely respectable school.) But please, choose Michigan... for all of us here at TLS.

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jayn3
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby jayn3 » Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:43 pm

JordynAsh wrote:jayn3, PLEASE don't go to Minnesota over Michigan if you want transferability. (Not that Minnesota isn't a completely respectable school.) But please, choose Michigan... for all of us here at TLS.


again, i'll get back to you if i get accepted at mich. not to be stubborn, i just don't see why i should be so caught up in rankings if the twin cities are an area i love and would be perfectly happy practicing in.

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doinmybest
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby doinmybest » Fri Feb 05, 2010 3:39 pm

jayn3 wrote:
JordynAsh wrote:jayn3, PLEASE don't go to Minnesota over Michigan if you want transferability. (Not that Minnesota isn't a completely respectable school.) But please, choose Michigan... for all of us here at TLS.


again, i'll get back to you if i get accepted at mich. not to be stubborn, i just don't see why i should be so caught up in rankings if the twin cities are an area i love and would be perfectly happy practicing in.


Wait why are you considering Michigan if you haven't been accepted there yet?

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jayn3
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby jayn3 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:02 pm

doinmybest wrote:Wait why are you considering Michigan if you haven't been accepted there yet?


if i weren't still considering it, i'd withdraw my app since i got into minn with money.

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RVP11
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby RVP11 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 7:13 pm

nycparalegal wrote:The point is that if you want to practice in Alabama, and you got into Cornell or Virginia would it make sense to go to Alabama (maybe to develop local connections?)


I hope this is a joke.

Alabama firms go nuts for UVA 1Ls.

If you already have some connection to Alabama, you'd be insane to pass up UVA in that situation. And if you don't already have some connection to Alabama, why the hell would you want to practice there?

nycparalegal
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby nycparalegal » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:09 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
nycparalegal wrote:The point is that if you want to practice in Alabama, and you got into Cornell or Virginia would it make sense to go to Alabama (maybe to develop local connections?)


I hope this is a joke.

Alabama firms go nuts for UVA 1Ls.

If you already have some connection to Alabama, you'd be insane to pass up UVA in that situation. And if you don't already have some connection to Alabama, why the hell would you want to practice there?


Well, one reason is the money. You wouldn't have to pay for your legal education. You get to make contacts in Alabama with other attornies that will be practicing in Alabama.

This was James Baker's father advice. Don't go to Harvard. Stay in Texas and make local connections.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby jawsthegreat » Fri Feb 05, 2010 10:13 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
nycparalegal wrote:The point is that if you want to practice in Alabama, and you got into Cornell or Virginia would it make sense to go to Alabama (maybe to develop local connections?)


I hope this is a joke.

Alabama firms go nuts for UVA 1Ls.

If you already have some connection to Alabama, you'd be insane to pass up UVA in that situation. And if you don't already have some connection to Alabama, why the hell would you want to practice there?



Lol, really? I live in Birmingham and wouldn't mind working here when I get out of school. If local firms really went this crazy over UVA grads this would make me very happy.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sat Feb 06, 2010 7:49 am

Going to Minnesota over Michigan is insanity unless you get a lot of money from Minnesota and you are 100% proof positive that the only place you will ever want to practice/live is Minneapolis/St. Paul.

Because you want to do "international public law" (probably not going to happen, by the way--this is the dream job of Yallies, and it isn't even obtainable for many of them,) you clearly aren't thinking of making your life in Minneapolis. If you're thinking "international public law," you're thinking DC or NYC. The prospects of someone from Minnesota in those markets are incredibly low.

Please do more research.

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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby T14Dreaming » Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am

I have to agree that if you really plan on going into International Law Minn. is not the right law school for you. You would have better luck going to a similarly ranked school in the D.C. Metro Area.

That being said, if you want to work in Minn. and plan on making that your home, then Minn is a good choice. I would wait to see what Michigan says, because at the very least if Michigan accepts you, it could help you bargain a better deal from any other law school.

It is undeniable that there are more job opportunities for T-14 graduates coming out of law school. But it is also equally undeniable that strong connections and the ability to win cases are important. There are plenty of successful lawyers who have gone to a great state school and could care less that their degree does not say Harvard.

Lastly, while I understand many of us going to law school do not like to be reminded, the practice of law is a business. If you remove personal pride, than the formula for choosing law school is easy. You perform a cost benefit analysis of whatever law school accepts you (this includes average starting salaries, total cost of attendance, etc). As law school students we will have to take on a certain amount of debt, but the amount of debt that we take on can seriously hinder our ability to do what we want.

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McNabb
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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby McNabb » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:33 am

JSUVA2012 wrote:
nycparalegal wrote:The point is that if you want to practice in Alabama, and you got into Cornell or Virginia would it make sense to go to Alabama (maybe to develop local connections?)


I hope this is a joke.

Alabama firms go nuts for UVA 1Ls.

If you already have some connection to Alabama, you'd be insane to pass up UVA in that situation. And if you don't already have some connection to Alabama, why the hell would you want to practice there?


LOL I know how you feel, that's exactly the thought that comes to my mind about NYC!

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Re: What are the advantages of going to a t14 over top state?

Postby ScaredWorkedBored » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:50 am

I'd just forget about the international human rights law now and save yourself from using it as a criteria to pick a school.

Also don't pick a school based on non-married significant other. Ever. Particularly if you are budgeting around the living arrangement. You'll learn why a couple ways during law school, but B-A-D idea.




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