Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

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Genesis
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Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Genesis » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:56 pm

I just wanted to know if anyone personally has made the jump or actually knew someone who did. I read alot about people maybe hearing someones friend of a friend of a friend etc.

Reason why I ask is I'm looking at attending a T4 (Possibly Univ. of Detroit-Mercy or Cooley) and maybe, maybe a T3 (Wayne State or MSU). Bottom line, I have a low UGPA because I was more interested in making money and a not so great LSAt (151). I did own my own restaurant, so thats a decent soft. But my dream has always been to attend Michigan Law. Im not going into law school with the intention of transferring but just wanted to know the posibilities if I was in the top 5% of a T4.

Be gentle :lol:

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thesealocust
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:58 pm

n/m
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heyguys
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby heyguys » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:03 pm

I definitely suggest you do a substantial amount of research to know exactly what you're getting yourself into. I think that if you do adequate reading regarding this issue, you will find that schools like that are in no way, shape, or form worth the investment. Even for those who say 'I've always wanted to be a lawyer,' these schools are not worth the investment. I don't mean to condescend, but they are really scams....honestly, it bugs me just to think about it.

My advice to you would be to retake the LSAT and try to get into a state school in a region that you wouldn't mind working in. It is possible to transfer from a T4 to a T14, but I think it would have to go beyond grades and really get into excellent teacher evals from law professors and whatnot as well. And 0Ls tend not to be honest with themselves: no one enters law school thinking 'I'm going to be one of the ones at median,' when the fact of the matter is that by definition not everyone is going to be at the top of the class.

I had a friend who was planning on going to a T4 and transferring, and I basically talked him out of going to law school until he got into a cheap state school. Now, he's at a state school, not taking on a ton of debt, and is doing just fine.

I know in some ways this is tangential to the specific question you asked, but please just understand the risk you're taking. Again, I'm not trying to snark, but these schools like Cooley etc. are simply very poor investments.

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Genesis
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Genesis » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:16 pm

I have done very extensive research and after much introspection, this is something I want to do. I didnt arrive at this decision lightly. I do have some pretty good "connections" so IF I were in the top 5%, that would help. I understand what you mean about going beyond grades though. I realize its much more realistic to transfer from MSU law than a T4.

starstruck393
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby starstruck393 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 5:50 pm

heyguys wrote:I definitely suggest you do a substantial amount of research to know exactly what you're getting yourself into. I think that if you do adequate reading regarding this issue, you will find that schools like that are in no way, shape, or form worth the investment. Even for those who say 'I've always wanted to be a lawyer,' these schools are not worth the investment. I don't mean to condescend, but they are really scams....honestly, it bugs me just to think about it.

My advice to you would be to retake the LSAT and try to get into a state school in a region that you wouldn't mind working in. It is possible to transfer from a T4 to a T14, but I think it would have to go beyond grades and really get into excellent teacher evals from law professors and whatnot as well. And 0Ls tend not to be honest with themselves: no one enters law school thinking 'I'm going to be one of the ones at median,' when the fact of the matter is that by definition not everyone is going to be at the top of the class.

I had a friend who was planning on going to a T4 and transferring, and I basically talked him out of going to law school until he got into a cheap state school. Now, he's at a state school, not taking on a ton of debt, and is doing just fine.

I know in some ways this is tangential to the specific question you asked, but please just understand the risk you're taking. Again, I'm not trying to snark, but these schools like Cooley etc. are simply very poor investments.


Actually, MSU and Wayne are like the state schools you're talking about. I'm assuming OP is from Michigan based on the schools listed, and tuition is $22k/yr for Wayne, $26/yr for Cooley ($17k/yr with the scholarship for your LSAT) and $31k/yr for MSU. UDM is a bad investment at $30k/yr, but the others aren't that bad. I'd probably recommend Wayne out of the bunch, though Cooley's pretty cheap, too. Those schools are nearly as bad as T3/T4's that charge $40k+. You can't bank on being able to transfer, but you won't be crippled if you end up graduating from one of the above...

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Sauer Grapes
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Sauer Grapes » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:15 pm

....
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ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Jan 10, 2010 11:16 am

Most of the T14 do throw a handful of bones to the T3/T4 schools in the immediate area (I know, for example, that both NYU and Columbia take some NYLS transfers every year.)

If you're at the very, very top (1-5%) of Wayne or Detroit-Mercy, you will conceivably have a shot at Michigan and Georgetown (those are probably the only two). It's a really low shot, but it's a shot.

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Genesis
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Genesis » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:05 pm

ToTransferOrNot wrote:Most of the T14 do throw a handful of bones to the T3/T4 schools in the immediate area (I know, for example, that both NYU and Columbia take some NYLS transfers every year.)

If you're at the very, very top (1-5%) of Wayne or Detroit-Mercy, you will conceivably have a shot at Michigan and Georgetown (those are probably the only two). It's a really low shot, but it's a shot.


So are you saying I wouldnt have a shot at transferring if I went to MSU Law or Cooley??

Just because you only listed Wayne or UD-Mercy.

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Doritos
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Doritos » Sun Jan 10, 2010 1:19 pm

Genesis wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Most of the T14 do throw a handful of bones to the T3/T4 schools in the immediate area (I know, for example, that both NYU and Columbia take some NYLS transfers every year.)

If you're at the very, very top (1-5%) of Wayne or Detroit-Mercy, you will conceivably have a shot at Michigan and Georgetown (those are probably the only two). It's a really low shot, but it's a shot.


So are you saying I wouldnt have a shot at transferring if I went to MSU Law or Cooley??

Just because you only listed Wayne or UD-Mercy.


Those two schools would fit the bill of T3/T4 schools. heyguys is spot on I think. If you want to start an entertaining thread ask this question at http://www.jdunderground.com

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Jan 10, 2010 3:17 pm

Genesis wrote:
ToTransferOrNot wrote:Most of the T14 do throw a handful of bones to the T3/T4 schools in the immediate area (I know, for example, that both NYU and Columbia take some NYLS transfers every year.)

If you're at the very, very top (1-5%) of Wayne or Detroit-Mercy, you will conceivably have a shot at Michigan and Georgetown (those are probably the only two). It's a really low shot, but it's a shot.


So are you saying I wouldnt have a shot at transferring if I went to MSU Law or Cooley??

Just because you only listed Wayne or UD-Mercy.


Cooley--probably not. MSU, probably.

Let me say very loudly though--I do NOT think you should go to any of these schools, expecting to transfer is always a bad idea. You may end up top 1% and have a cranky admissions person the day your app comes up for review.

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im_blue
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby im_blue » Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:59 pm

IMO you're going to need top 1% to transfer from T4 to T14. There are ~50 T4 schools, so top 1% of all T4 students is still half a law school class of students.

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Doritos
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Doritos » Sun Jan 10, 2010 9:05 pm

im_blue wrote:IMO you're going to need top 1% to transfer from T4 to T14. There are ~50 T4 schools, so top 1% of all T4 students is still half a law school class of students.



That's a good point. On top of that you have all the other people in between T14 and T4 who are top 1% who may have visions of sugar plums and T14's dancing in their heads. This transfer business seems tough.

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Genesis
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Genesis » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:06 pm

Doritos wrote:
im_blue wrote:IMO you're going to need top 1% to transfer from T4 to T14. There are ~50 T4 schools, so top 1% of all T4 students is still half a law school class of students.



That's a good point. On top of that you have all the other people in between T14 and T4 who are top 1% who may have visions of sugar plums and T14's dancing in their heads. This transfer business seems tough.



Does anyone know how Cooley ranks the class? I mean do they put PT and FT together when they rank?

bradley
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby bradley » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:16 pm

delete

Aloha4
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Aloha4 » Wed Jan 13, 2010 7:07 pm

I think it is possible to transfer form T4 to a top 14 but it will be tough. However, you can transfer to a T1 which would be great for you.

I got accepted into Widener and I don't know if I will get in anywhere better. I applied to other T4's, New England, Suffolk, and Western New England. Will probably get into these but I don't know if they are any better. I also applied to a T3 in NYLS and applied to both Rutgers' and Seton Hall. If I get into New York Law School, do I definitely take that over Widener? What is Wideners rep. and would I be able to transfer out of Widener more easily than the dreaded Cooley.

rocker1487
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby rocker1487 » Thu Feb 18, 2010 8:54 pm

I have a friend that knows someone that transferred from St. Thomas University in Miami (T4) to Georgetown, so it's definitely possible.

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Great Satchmo
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby Great Satchmo » Thu Feb 18, 2010 9:18 pm

It sounds like the theme here is:

It is possible, but DO NOT count on it. You really can't control everything, or even a lot of things, that will contribute to your class standing (e.g. two dozen other people have the same idea as you, and happen to be better students).

The best advice is that if you plan on transferring out of the school, it's probably best not to go there in the first place.

If, however, you are ok going there for three years, and you happen to be in the top of your class, well, then it will be an option.

umichgrad
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby umichgrad » Fri Feb 19, 2010 11:19 am

Also, both Wayne and MSU are super underrated IMO. I base this only on experience working with PI lawyers in Michigan, but Wayne has a truly outstanding rep if you're ok with sticking to Michigan. Some of the most successful lawyers I knew there were Wayne grads. That said, UDM and Cooley are not worth the money.

garbage-to-gold
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby garbage-to-gold » Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:54 am

I know this thread is very old but still gets some searches! Just wanted to let you know from my personal experience, I took my 1L year at Golden Gate University (over 200 to not ranked), and got into Berkeley. T-14 is definitely achievable from a T4 school, but you have to be ready to put the work in. Top 5 student with multiple awards and stellar prof recommendations is what it takes, but you definitely can do it!

Good luck gunners!

SomewhatLearnedHand
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:14 am

garbage-to-gold wrote:I know this thread is very old but still gets some searches! Just wanted to let you know from my personal experience, I took my 1L year at Golden Gate University (over 200 to not ranked), and got into Berkeley. T-14 is definitely achievable from a T4 school, but you have to be ready to put the work in. Top 5 student with multiple awards and stellar prof recommendations is what it takes, but you definitely can do it!

Good luck gunners!


Congrats on the transfer. I also know someone who went TTTT to a T13 this cycle. However, anyone considering this move should be advised you absolutely need to be at least top 5% of the class to pull this off. Its extremely risky and you'll be paying sticker at the new school.

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yyyuppp
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby yyyuppp » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:43 pm

.
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UVA2B
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby UVA2B » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:53 pm

yyyuppp wrote:you really really need to put a lot of time and energy into retaking the LSAT. there is a ton of room to improve from a 151. whats your UGPA? Also consider that if you cannot get better than a 151 even after a ton of studying and retakes, that your score puts you near or below the 25 percentile of both MSU and Wayne State. while not entirely predictive of success in law school, the LSAT is roughly correlated to doing well. so, the deck might be seriously stacked against you if your goal is to be in the top 5-10%.

also consider what your goals are. if you just wanna work at a random smallish law firm or something in Michigan, then wayne state or MSU is probably fine. Retake and get a higher score and get a good scholarship (you should not be paying 30k a year to attend these schools). If you want big law you are better served at increasing your score and going to a school that gives you a decent shot of it even if you aren't a top student (i.e. Wash U or ND). This also gives you more room for error if transferring is something you are considering after 1L.

You only get to do law school once, so put yourself in the absolutely best position to succeed going in. retake the LSAT and get as high as you feel you are capable after a ton of studying. if you are happy with the average career outcome for students from MSU/WS, then get a good scholarship and go. on the other hand, It takes a ton of luck and a lot of talent to be in a position to transfer from a T3/4 to a top 14; absolutely do not go to one of those schools with that being your plan, cuz you are 90% likely to fail.

retake the lsat. you will not regret it.


Check the dates. This is a seven year old necro.

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yyyuppp
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby yyyuppp » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:02 pm

ugh.

cavalier1138
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Re: Personal experience with a T4 to T14 transfer?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Dec 03, 2017 1:21 pm

UVA2B wrote:Check the dates. This is a seven year old necro.


But since we're all here now, dude should retake.




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